Laying it on the line with the great Rik Emmett of Triumph

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With a newly released memoir about his life in music and times in the Canadian band Triumph in the 1980s, guitarist Rik Emmett discusses ” “Lay It On The Line” and the stories behind a lifetime in music with Nestor from Toronto. Oh, there’s also a surprising amount of baseball chatter with this big MLB fan and historian, too!


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Rik Emmett, Nestor J. Aparicio

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home we are wn S T am 1570, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive we’re gonna get back out on the road with our Maryland crabcake tour all of our crabcake row and charity community pieces are now platform to Baltimore positive. Pick one of them do something nice before baseball season starts. So I’m brought to you by friends at the Maryland lottery 10 times the cash I’ll be giving these away. We’re gonna be doing some Fridays at fade Lee’s before Orioles games now that we’re under new ownership, which is a beautiful thing around here also our friends at window nation, as well as Jiffy Lube, multi care putting us out on the road. I’ve waited a long time to do this piece. And there’s a whole background and all of this and you all know my love of rock and roll and I can let my hair out and we’ll do all that later on in the segment. But this is a band I love forever. And I’ve never interviewed this person. Although he did give me a bottle of screech from Newfoundland, when I was about 17 years old as a music critic. Down at the Baltimore arena. I was at the Towson center the night that the MTV cameras rolled in. Saxon had become one of my favorite bands because I had seen a band called rush at the Capitol center and there’s a band called triumph. And when we were playing PacMan and video games at the arcade magic power would come on and hold on and lay it on the line. And it kind of all came back to me about six months ago, jamming around and I saw the documentary and I loved the band and only caught the back end and had to tape the front end and watched it all. And then I thought, you know, we get used to come here all the time to ramshead in play. And he’s written a book and maybe maybe I could fish out to his Canadian publicist, and he would spend some time with me, Rick Emmett, it is a pleasure to have you on to promote lay it on the line. a backstage pass the Rockstar, adventure, conflict and triumph. I think you had all of that. Congratulations on ringing the bell and surviving and doing all these things. I’ve waited a long time I’ve talked to your bandmates. But it’s a pleasure to have you on the program. Thank


Rik Emmett  01:52

you Nestor. It’s nice to get to chat with you too. And I want to compliment you on that beautiful orange shirt and your Orioles team. They finally sort of rounded into shape took a while but you guys waited patiently. And now you got a real contender there. And that’s my kind of ball team. I really do like that baseball team.

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:12

You know what man I put baseballs the last thing we’re going to discuss and give him my lane you’ve already brought it up. Let’s start with this because I’ll get to the Towson center and all this stuff that I have around here and fun toys and and certainly your book and the deep thoughts in your book about your band and your life and your family. But the baseball thing in Canada I mean, I’ve had getting on many times over many years haven’t had them on recently since the book came out. I was up at Massey Hall when he and Alex Lifeson did their their thing, but just before the holidays, I’m fascinated by the Canadian love of baseball, especially with older folks like yourself that when you were a kid, you didn’t have the Blue Jays. Right, like so the Blue Jays sort of came along. But I don’t know how a 12 year old kid in a tub of coke or you know Mississauga would be a baseball fan in 1969 or 70. Can you explain that to me on behalf of all your Canadian rock stars who love baseball?

Rik Emmett  03:05

Yeah, well, I can tell you that the Canadians have we actually have the longest running of baseball diamond in North America is in London, Ontario, it here in Canada, and we had baseball even before your sort of American development of the game. It was it was a real baseball diamond. And I have a funny story about that was not funny, but it’s my son played on that field. And at the time, it was the little bass Memorial, something you know, when when he played on it, but he played on it several times in Canadian championships and stuff. And the last time that he played there, my brother had passed away and I had some of his ashes. And he had asked me, my brother, can you get make sure that my ashes get put on in Memorial Stadium in Baltimore? Because he was a huge Cal Ripken fan, right. And I went, I don’t think I can swing that. But I was able to get my son to put some of his ashes just behind second base on the oldest baseball diamond in all of North America. So that’s the kind of

Nestor J. Aparicio  04:13

Roots The brother asked you to spread his ashes on 33rd Street at Memorial Stadium where I spent my job. That’s true. And you didn’t do it.

Rik Emmett  04:21

I couldn’t How can you get in there like,

Nestor J. Aparicio  04:26

Rick, I can make this happen. I had the leader of the Y John holding on last week talking about community talking about 33rd Street that that land there as my last name is Aparicio. So I came to this world in this country. My cousin came as a shortstop and left right father here and I’m the last one here right. So I know we on last week and the why the former YMCA the why took the land there 20 years ago and I admitted the John I could not drive down 33rd Street for about 15 years of my life. because it upset me so much that it was gone. And I can make this happen for you, brother. So we’re all friends here. You know, this is I can make this Canadian us baseball thing and you know, Kyle’s gonna be an owner of the baseball team now and baseball you guys do. I mean, when I’m in Canada, you love hockey. But boy if the Blue Jays ever won a World Series again, right?

Rik Emmett  05:20

Yeah, I think the Canadian thing was that, you know, obviously hockey was six months of the year, but then what do you do the the next six? Like, you know, so that was like, most athletes, you played ball in the summer and you played hockey in the winter. And you know, that’s how it worked. Well, you’ve done


Nestor J. Aparicio  05:39

you get a lot of baseball pictures in here and I I didn’t know if your affinity of baseball I mean, get he’s kind of out there with it. And other Canadian people are out there with it. But I didn’t know that you were you were looking for a ballgame when you were on tour with the band. 40 years ago, man,

Rik Emmett  05:53

like when I was a when I was about eight or nine years old. We used to start to have pitchers with softball pitching, but we used to have pitchers and catchers in spring training kind of in the basement of my school in March. And so every year around this time I get this itchy kind of spring training pitchers and catchers have already reported Oh, you know, like, it’s it’s a part of who I am my dad played ball. My brother played ball, you know? Yeah, it was a thing. Like, we had a min slow pitch team. And we played in the league and my dad coached third, and my brother and I played together and yeah, I mean, I just, you know, it’s always been a part of who I am. And just as much as music almost, you know, I guess if I’d had more chops as a baseball player, I might have ended up to him that but you know, one thing led to another ended up in the music business. So all

Nestor J. Aparicio  06:47

right, well, we got Rick Emmett hear from triumph. The book is laying on the line. So I guess I come at this pretty honest back in September, I put a Facebook status up and just said, what’s the greatest song ever written? What’s your, you know, the to my world, and hundreds of things came on to the Facebook page. And someone said match power. And obviously, I know the song used to sing Jim Carrey sets that Dundalk high on the guitar, you know, we had a good time, I had that vocal range back in the day. Not your range, bro. But you know, but it was a fun one to try. You know, because if you could sing that you could sing any you can sing the phone book if you think back. So I literally put a setlist together one morning, and I was showering for in the morning with my wife cranking up music in the bathroom, as we all do, and I listen your song and I thought, wow, you know, like, I’ll vote that’s on the list. I don’t you know, I don’t know. And then you I guess the world because you pop up on Facebook. And if I say your name, now everything that comes on YouTube, the next six months gonna be a video of you at the 1000 Center, whatever. But the movie that was made, and the documentary came to me by accident, it was just Saturday afternoon, I popped on axis and I started watching it. And I guess six months later, I found you. And here we are, and you wrote a book. But the story of your band for me even as a fan of your band, and I have ticket stubs, I’ll show you from that, you know back in the day and loving your band. I don’t know that you just disappeared, you know, like in a in a way that and then you started showing up at ramshead with an acoustic guitar and lots of my friends went down to see you play I’m such an idiot for never coming down and seeing you do that, although I play around on YouTube and watch your acoustic versions of that. But your the end of your band was a mystery to a lot of fans, especially maybe not in Toronto. But outside of that. It’s like, what what happened, what, and I think 40 years later, in your book, you try to paint a picture of all that, but the movie also and the reunion you guys did a metal works a number of years ago now sort of put a little bit of a bow on that for fans to finally let them in a little bit. Because I don’t know that it was popular knowledge about how uncomfortable the band was to be in.

Rik Emmett  08:56


Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s ancient history. But when we lived it, it didn’t feel like it was some sort of strange vanishing disappearing act at the time. It just felt like, well, this is the natural course of events. And I think in order to frame it properly, you know, through your viewers hear it, you have to understand that, you know, triumph was a band that we’ve done very well in terms of album radio. And we were an album kind of act. And so the rise of a world where you know, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd and these people were making album rock and, and then radio in the states gravitated towards it. We came in but we were only a band that was like, we were on RCA originally, which was I think the six of the seven major labels. And then we fought them, you know, lawsuit and then we ended up in MCA, which was the you know, they it turned into Universal which ended up taking over the whole world. But at the time, MCA was like When, I mean, Elton John was signed to them, and he called it the music cemetery of America. It was, you know, they didn’t have a lot of clout in the, in the whole music business per se. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  10:13

Ghana hooked on him, right wrote a song working on the amps word for the MCA literally, right? Yeah. Yes.

Rik Emmett  10:17

Yes. Yes. So there was that thing of, you know, we were never playing in that league, where sticks was going, you know, six or seven times platinum in Germany was going eight or nine or 10 times platinum, and, and even in Russia all over the world is selling, you know, quadruple platinum, whatever, like, we would struggle to kind of go gold. And then if we hung around long enough, and worked really hard and tour along, okay, we could maybe get to platinum, but which we did with MCA a couple of times, but it was, so we were on the radar, but we weren’t, like, you know, you know, pushing boundaries and making amazing things happen. And then the band had gotten to the point where, well, as I said, in the book, it was just it, it had run its course for me, and I wanted to do other things. You know, I, I mean, we started our conversation, you’re talking about baseball, my life was always one of having a kind of an eclectic approach. Like, you know, as I just wrote, I’m working on a new book, which is about playing the Telecaster guitar. And it’s where I started and where I’ve come back to. And it’s called 10 Telecaster tales. And one of the things they talked about is this guy, eclectic journey, you know, I’m always wanting to do something where in triumph, I would be the guy that would put on these guitar pieces, and it would give the band a kind of a very thin veneer of being a progressive act. We weren’t really a progressive act, you know, I was writing pop songs that I was trying to get on album radio. And Mike and Gil both, I think they felt like they just wanted to have a heavy band, they wanted to have a band, like, you know, Metallica, or or the, you know, I mean, when we played the US Festival, and it was like Motley Crue and scorpions. And I think Gil and Mike were going yeah, this is, this is the kind of band you know, we want that they want to try to be, but the songs that I wrote, like magic power you were talking about, it’s not really a heavy metal kind of song. It’s, it’s about something else, you know, it’s about what, what radio did for me when I was a kid and what radio does, oh, here’s a here’s a big thing about that tune. The lyric I wrote. It talks about, she climbs into bed, and she pulls the covers of her hands. So there’s a sheet in the song. And we started to get women finally buying tickets and coming to see our shows, to which Mike and Gil were like, you know, astounded. And I was going, No, who do you think listens to radio most of the time, it’s not, it’s not just guys in the warehouse. It’s, it’s women in the they’re around the house, and they’re doing their their housekeeping and they’re looking after the kids and they got the radio going. So this song is the song that speaks to everybody doesn’t just speak to, you know, guys in black T shirts, you know, anyhow, so that was the that kind of that. So the kinds of divisions that were within the band, and eventually, that’s the kind of stuff that breaks it apart. You know,

Nestor J. Aparicio  13:10

what Kevin is here for triumph, the book is laid on the line, you know, you love the music in the band, get the story behind it. I dove into the band side of this right before we spoke to just get fresh on the power struggle, which was very obvious from the movie, and the film and just clearly three very different human beings. I mean, I think I’m 55 now, and I think about my two or three best friends in 1984, and whether I could be in a business with them, and whether it would have grown in the same direction with families and which is really a tribute to rush and you too. And the handful of bands that have managed to keep members together for a lifetime. I think it’s difficult to do but you were self managed and, and I think very clear from Gil and his family and the business side. And I used to interview Mike all the time because he was the spokesperson. And when the music critic at the Baltimore Sun McAllen 1989, we get Mike. And I think the business side of that and being self managed, and I’m fiercely independent. I think it’s part of a Canadian tradition of being fiercely independent, that maybe that didn’t serve you as well either, in that Irving Azoff came in later on but, but the notion that you were going to it was you against the world, that probably was a really difficult in any error to do. Pearl Jam’s tried it and fought the man and like all that, but it’s a that’s a very difficult thing, because I’m that guy that’s fought with the baseball team here for 30 years. It’s very difficult to push against the wind. And you guys were fundamentally like that manage like that by Gillan and your partnership, right.


Rik Emmett  14:42

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was an independent minded kind of operation for sure. And I’ve said this in the memoir, you know, when I hooked up with Gil and Mike, I found them to be two of the smartest musicians that I’ve ever encountered. Um, and in the end, they weren’t really they didn’t really think like musicians, you know, they Gil thought more like a business operating kind of guy. And, and was very good with money accounting and bookkeeping and all of those kinds of things his dad had been in that end of the business, and Mike was very much marketing and promotion. And so those skills for a band, those are really important, and they can do a lot of good for a band especially, is from its inception, as it as it grows, you get to a certain point in this business model, and I say this business as if I’m still really in it, you know, but you rise to a certain point, you have to have champions, you know, like, as you’ve met with frustrations there in Baltimore, about as team ownership, and now, you know, Oh, you think you’re gonna get over the top now, because you got some new ownership happening. Like, there is a top down thing that happens, you need champions in higher positions to make things happen. Like, in the years when Trump did have a lot of success, it was because Mike really knew how to get the promotion divisions of record companies to do their job and to, you know, to go to bat for you and, and go to the wall for you know, get record companies to spend that extra promotion, marketing budget, parent, you know, make the X be a priority. And you have to have that you need to have a record company, President Trump believes and you know, now, in the case of Irving, I think he did believe in the band, you know, on a certain way. But Irving was a guy that he functioned at so many levels. I mean, did you see in the news recently, he’s got some sort of a thing now and he’s buying up, Kenny bought Rod Stewart’s catalogue of masters in publishing. And it’s like, I don’t know, hundreds of millions of dollars. And Irving was always a guy that could play at a game that was just so far above where we were at, because he, he was running MCA Records, but he was still managing the Eagles. And he still, you know, he probably gonna

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:08

be a full time job for most people just doing the Eagles. Right. Exactly. And there were no personalities in that band or anything.

Rik Emmett  17:15

That’s exactly. So anyhow, I mean, that’s the story of, of so many bands, you rise to a certain point. And it’s like that Peter Principle thing where eventually, it’s going to come apart, because you’re you’re reaching your level of this is as far as you can go. Before, you know, the cracks are going to start to show. And in some bands, you know, they manage, like, as you mentioned, Russian and you too, I do think that there’s a vision from within the band, you talked about independent mindedness. And I do think that in the case of say, you two, you’ve got a couple of principles in there, you know, bottle and the edge. And they have this partnership where they go, Look, no matter what happens, this is how we’re going to try to make our business work. And I think Keith Richards and Mick Jagger same kind of a thing, you know, they go, Okay, well, if we go off on our own and do our own things, that’s fine. But there is this thing that we do together, and it’s gonna be this band. And I think Russia that you know, for sure. So, you know, I think Led Zeppelin that that and then when Barnum passed away, it was kind of like, you know, what, we’re not gonna touch the sacred thing that we kind of had. And I think Zeplin might have been one of the first bands that went, No, no, we’re gonna have our own label, and we’re gonna have swan song, and we’re gonna, we’re only going to lease the masters to the major label, we’re not going to sign the conventional record contract where the record company is going to own the Masters, you know? And once they did that, then everybody went, Oh, that’s how you play the game. Oh, okay. I thought Beatles could get away with that, you know, but then everybody went, No, no, once you rise to a certain point, that’s the way you play it.

Nestor J. Aparicio  19:04


That’s how you want to negotiate it. Anyway. Rick Emmett is here. The book is laid out of the book, I’m you have done poetry, you’ve been teaching. I mean, like, I would say, prolific writer, I mean, just blogging. And just in general, once a writer, always a writer, and I’m guilty as well, where like, the only way you can sort of make sense of things and organize things in your mind is to write it down and get it out. But this has been a long time coming right for you to write a memoir. And it’s, it’s really a book of observations more than anything else, as it goes along sort of stream of consciousness, but observations and sort of the perspective of how you feel about it. 30 years later.

Rik Emmett  19:44

Yeah, I mean, you know, you do a memoir, and you kind of have this thing where I’m thinking in the back of my mind, well, I only want to do this once. I’m not gonna do a series of memoirs. I’m only gonna do it once. And so I kind of want to get it right. But the fact that I waited such a long time, part of it was cuz I was always prioritize like, well, as you mentioned, my life is it was complicated. I did a lot of things my family was was important to me. And there was all of that we had four kids and and the music was always done the next thing so I had family and then I had music. And then I went, Well, yeah, I want to write, well, I’ll do that later, you know, Well, that’ll I’m going to focus on these, I was still touring a lot and playing gigs, like out every weekend, he talked about the ramset. Like, I loved coming down and playing that gig, that was a really cool little place to get to play. You know, it was, it was civilized. And then me and another guitar player would just get up there and I could be so self indulgent, tell stories and play guitar pieces and do cover songs if I wanted and, and I would tour around and do that on weekends. So I kept doing that, because he was there for me. And I thought, I’ll write a memoir, you know, later. One of the big catalysts for writing the memoir was the tribes did the documentary. And then after that, I went, well, that’s triumph story, but it’s not really mine, my story is going to be more complex than that mine is going to talk about what I did after I left him I made more records after I left the band than I did when I was in it. I had a very lengthy, independent kind of career as an indie artist. And I taught you mentioned that the school thing, so I had priorities, I was like, Well, okay, now, when I read the memoir, I’m going to have to cover all of these other things, man, and I don’t want to write a memoir that’s, you know, 550 pages long. Like, you know, I was able to make the deal with ECW by going, Look, please publish this book of poetry. I know, you know, nobody sells books of poetry. I know, there’s no money to be made. But I promise you, I’ll give you a memoir, too. And they went, Oh, a memoir, too. Okay, so let’s do a two book deal. I go, okay, great. So I knew that the memoir was now on the horizon. And I would have to organize my thinking, you know, in order to, to get it done. But as you say, it bounces around, there’s stuff there that you can clearly tell, well, he was a college teacher for 20 years, I’m getting a lot of, you know, syllabus. I’ve had some physical, Rick, you sure like, you know, three and four and five syllable words, I gotta get to the dictionary to reread your book. And I go, Well, I’m an academic, you know, I’m more of an academic and a philosopher than I am really a, you know, a rock star.

Nestor J. Aparicio  22:39

That’s a parent, right? And I think all these years later that and I should ask you this, and I maybe I didn’t get far enough in the book to to figure all this out. But to hear you say it, you were really unhappy in a band where and as an artist and the debt service and the business side of Boston up with lawyers and the the fighting that went on behind the scenes just to get the band heard and but the in the life for you, once you got out and sorted it out. You’ve had obviously challenges brothers passing and other things that you’ve written about. But was it a happier life being independent, and doing all of those albums on your own? Even though it wasn’t big stages and big money and big travel and all that? Did you live a happier life because of finally, and it took you years to say, I don’t want to be on the front of a three man band anymore?

Rik Emmett  23:29

Yes, you know, the short answer to your question is yes. And the longer answer is this us listen to smartlace the other day, and they were talking to Lars Ulrich of Metallica. And he was talking about, you know, when you have success in a band, you have this thing that’s going to just eat up all your time. And they would have been meetings, and they’d be sitting around and going, Okay, well, you know, I realize you’d like to block out this Memorial Day weekend, because it’s your kid’s birthday. But, you know, we have to go and play this gig in, you know, wherever, you know. And it becomes this thing as people get older, and they have their own families and they have their own lives inside a band. It’s something you don’t want to have to compromise about, is it because you’re becoming more of an adult, it’s not like you’re, you know, these these sort of overgrown teenagers that when we put a band together, and we’re making money in it, this is great. It’s great success. And, you know, in large, KC school and all we ever were thinking about was playing the gigs and then getting high, you know, getting hammered. Like that was really that was that those were the priorities, you know, and then but life is it works the way that it works. Now, I was always somebody that had, I was interested in sports, and I was interested in reading and I was interested in it teaching and writing like, you know, one of the great things that happened to me when Triumph’s first started to become successful was Guitar Player magazine said Hey, do you want to write a column for us, you know, so every month I had come up with a column. It’s not a crazy, huge per thing, you know, responsibility and time consuming kind of thing. But in my case, I go, Well, I want to write one, that will be a really good column. And I want to make sure that you know, and then I got into three years later, they’re sending me, Tom Wheeler would send me a little note, say, Rick, I just want you to know, you know, when we do surveys, your column is always the favorite readers column. And so the fact that I was conscientious about it, it made it so that it had a value that extended beyond the fact that I was just, you know, my name was there on a masthead, you know, once a month, but it also made it so that you know, oh, recumbent Oh, the guy from triumph. Oh, wait, the guy that writes for Guitar Player magazine, right. So like, Yamaha goes, Hey, would you like to have an endorsement deal? And we’ll give you carte blanche. Like, you can design your own guitars. You can. I mean, you can see I have a fetish. Oh, you have a collection


Nestor J. Aparicio  26:04

there? Yeah. Yeah. No, Getty got rid of all of his baseball stuff. And, you know, I often wonder that they’re big. I mean, if you collect baseball’s they’re this big guitars are huge. Yeah. I mean, there’s a whole storage thing you have going on there, you and Rick Nielsen.

Rik Emmett  26:17

Yeah. Well, he’s got it way worse than I go, Alex, pretty good. And lifeson. He had, he had a bunch like he had, I would say, five times as many as I do. I will. I’m down to about 50. Now 55, something like that. So Paul Reed

Nestor J. Aparicio  26:35

Smith here in Maryland, right. So I’m making these guitars and Alex and just all of you guitar geeks come in and have the master make guitars here, right? Yes,

Rik Emmett  26:45


yeah. And he is like his guitars are phenomenal. But I mean, you know, I’m, I’m sort of old school, right. I mean, I’ve had endorsement deals and Yamaha Gaudin. You know, I had Gibson a relationship was from about 2007 to 2012 and got some nice les Paul’s, and there’s a double neck over there. And which, by the way, license calls his one the fat bastard. And I just call my, the chiropractor’s best friend. You know, all those years of playing those double x man, I was ruining my neck and my back. But man, they looked pretty good on stage. Yeah, look,

Nestor J. Aparicio  27:28

good man. Look, to next we’re better than six or seven going there. But Rick Emmett is here from trying, the book is laid on the line. So the book and putting it together. You’re a writer, you’re an academic all that easier, hard. Once it came to the editing process to sort of pare down what you’re trying to convey to people who love you and have loved your music and the gal that put magic power up, she might not have the book and might want it. What were you trying to do in this?

Rik Emmett  27:57

I was trying to fit way too much into too small space. So that’s a win. Your first question was, is it hard? Yes. It was hard. It was really hard to do what? When I first started, I have I’ve had a blog, you know, a forum on my website for members for out of those, you know, 1520 years. And so I said to my webmasters, hey, can you put all of my posts that I’ve written all in one file and send it to me, and it was well over 5000, single spaced pages of stuff. So the editing was the hardest thing. It’s already

Nestor J. Aparicio  28:32

written most of this, it just had never been put into one place kind of sort of buffed up.


Rik Emmett  28:36

And not Well, I wouldn’t say written. Most of this, I would say written probably a good half of it. Because of course, those folks that were on my forum, they’re my best fans. And they would ask these questions like, Hey, Rick, you remember when you play Towson, and, you know, blah, blah, blah? Do you remember this? You remember that? And so the stories would have been there. And so I would go through and clean it out and go, Okay, this is a story that has to be told, you know, and, oh, this is a story that the Triumph documentary told, but they didn’t tell my side of it. Now, that was the rewriting. So there were things where I was going, Okay, I don’t have to tell this, this has been beat to death. But this is the side that I need to you know, show, folks. And then there was the whole thing of, I want people to know who, you know, Richard Gordon Emmett was, is and you know, hopefully will be for the next, you know, a couple of decades where, you know, God willing, so there’s a, there’s a side of that when you’re writing a memoir, where you’re writing it. And now of course, I’m going around and doing all these interviews and stuff. And, and the book by the well, it’s doing well, which is this nice, it’s a great thing. And then the public just goes Hey, you want to keep doing interviews? Like yeah, sure. Okay. Well, you know, we’ll keep doing this. But when you’re doing a memoir is something where you’re talking about the past a lot, so And then everybody’s asking you about your past. And then you feel like you’re like at your own wake. Like, you go, wait, wait, and it’s the Monty Python joke, right? And I’m not dead yet, you know? Like, and I’m not, you know, that’s part of it. So there’s a thing that you’re trying to do with a memoir, where you’re trying to incorporate the sort of the currency and the vitality of who you still are, into this history of who you were, you know, so that whole past present future thing is that play. And it’s a remarkable thing, from a sort of a psychological therapeutic point of view. Because, you know, but you don’t want to be living too much in the past. There’s way too much regret there, you know, you like to be in the present, because this is where this is the only thing you’re guaranteed, you know, the future you go, Well, I’m not guaranteed that, but I hope what I’m doing today, I hope the things that I do today, it’s like, why would I want to go to spring training? Well, because, you know, that’s prep for the future. And it’s, it’s necessary, if you want the future to be something that you really, really want. You got to the present, it has to be about the future. So writing a memoir is kind of that kind of a thing for me. I don’t know if it’s for everybody, but that’s what it was like for me. Well,

Nestor J. Aparicio  31:23

I mean, Geddy Lee wrote this book last year, and he did the tour and I went to a couple of dates. And it was kind of fun on stage but telling these stories, and I’m thinking, this is so add a cabin brush fan for 40 years, just hearing Getty and seeing him crying, get emotional. He said he was all cried out by the time he had done a dozen dates. But part of writing the book and doing these things is is retelling the stories and having some clown in Towson Maryland say, Hey, Rick, do you remember that the needed the Towson Senator show? I’m sharing the ticket now or what’s left of it from February 21 1982. There is what’s left of my ticket. It had some sort of scotch tape on it. I don’t know what it was. What do you remember Giggs individually or was there too much screech and too much in and out. But that night was captured, that night was captured for everyone. I had become a Saxon fan, because I was a rush fan, your music was on the radio 98 rock all that so I wanted to see your band. But that was a it was a cold snowy night. I remember it’s February 21, cold as hell in that little Towson Center, which is still there. And there were video cameras like rolling. And I had never seen those kinds of cameras in 1981 82, they brought the same stuff they brought to the summit for journey is you know, in the midnight on Saturday night, they were gonna debut try it at the Towson. They didn’t pronounce Towson Center in Maryland, what do you remember?

Rik Emmett  32:50

Well, I just remember the pressure of it, because of course it was MTV. And that, you know, that was the catalyst for it. And everybody was trying to cozy up to MTV at the time. That was that was now the new way to break records in there. So record companies were trying to get in there. And I think triumph might have been, I think Prince had had already done a live thing for them. And I think the Triumph one was literally the second one that they ever did have live concerts, which of course, it was going to turn into a standard kind of thing that they did all the time. But I don’t know, I remember not just that one, but other kinds of ones where the cameras were there. Or, you know, the the Westwood mobile truck was there. And this was gonna get recorded. And this was gonna turn into, you know, live concerts on the radio, and thinking, okay, so, you know, you have to be good. Like, you can’t mess this up, because this is going to, you know, exist for posterity. So, for me, particularly, it was a question of, don’t run around too much on stage, like, because sometimes I would just go crazy and be jumping around and do you know, but if I did, then my vocals would suffer as the set went on, my pitch would get worse and worse. Whereas if I relaxed and took it easy and didn’t go at it too hard, didn’t run around too much. By the time we got to magic power near the end of the night, or, you know, whatever was going to be the end song fight the good fight, there was a lot of songs where I had to sing awfully high, you know, and I needed a chance to rest before I could, you know, tackle that because I wasn’t like a singer that was just standing in the middle of the stage. You know, doing my thing with my feet planted you know, I was not a Paul Rogers kind of a guy I was I had a guitar and you three piece band. Somebody’s got a front desk thing and you got to move around you know? So I remember that I remember telling myself like the you know, don’t run around too much you idiot like you know

Nestor J. Aparicio  34:53

I mean, cuz it played a lot. Were you happy with it?

Rik Emmett  34:58

No, no, no.

Nestor J. Aparicio  34:59

I hear that 40 years later, don’t break my heart.

Rik Emmett  35:04

Well, but I mean, part of that is, I think there’s a side of every artist where when you listen to your sub back, you go or you see a video or you go, Oh, I could have done that better. Oh, I could, Oh, holy jeez, that’s a little flatter. Oh, the man, I look weird from that angle. Like, you’re, you’re self critical in a way that even your worst critic is not going to see the things that you see about yourself or feel about yourself. And I was never the delusional kind of artist that loved Oh, I love listening to my old records. Oh, I love looking at pictures of me. Oh, I love watching videos of me. I go, what kind of a problem? Have you got like that? You know, I’m not interested in that, you know, I’m more interested in what is somebody else got to offer that I might be able to then incorporate into my own process, you know, what can I learn from? I’ve always felt like I was kind of a student for life. And I don’t think rock stars are necessarily Well, through, they come in all shapes and sizes. You know, I think a guy like David boy was probably a rock star that he was very much an artist. And he wasn’t necessarily that concerned about looking at those pictures, he created those images and those videos and those things. And then he would move on to something else, you know, because that’s what he was doing was he was searching, you know, so the guys that are, you know, enamored of their, their own videos, or their own images or their own recordings. I go. I don’t know, buddy, I think you got some screws loose. Like, it doesn’t seem healthy to me, you know, but who’s to say what healthy is? Tumble


Nestor J. Aparicio  36:56

Canadian niche as well, though, too, right? A little bit?

Rik Emmett  36:59

Yeah, I think so that modesty. Yes. I mean, and I think Canadians do have it a little bit more than Americans. But, you know, I’m not putting Americans down, though, the way I always describe that one is, you know, in Canada, if you’re not modest, and you’re not sort of practical, and you don’t put on your mittens or your scarf, you’ll fucking you’ll freeze to death, you know, six months of the year, whereas in Texas, and Virginia and you know, Florida, man, you can be dead drunk lying in the gutter all night long and you’re not you’ll you’ll wake up in the morning and go, Oh, geez. Okay,

Nestor J. Aparicio  37:33

I’ll try that on Yonge Street.

Rik Emmett  37:35


Exactly. So I think that there’s the other thing too, is the Americans really have a very strong sense of, and this is national identity, that up by your own bootstraps, you know, individuality. Like I’m strong, I’m great, you know, Don’t screw with my rights. Whereas Canadians go, geez, I’m sorry, can I be of service? Can I help you somehow? Like, can we cooperate, Hey, can I lend you something to help you out? Because if you didn’t cooperate in Canada, again, you are gonna freeze to death. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  38:10

that’s your theory. I love it. I love it. Kevin is here. Lay it on line is a book, backstage pass to Rockstar adventure conflict and has to have that to be a story and triumph and a great picture of what’s at Allied forces era there. So that’s a young Rick Emmett on that cover up.

Rik Emmett  38:25

That’s just a game that was at the Ottawa Civic Center. And we were still playing sort of either size down buildings, or, you know, the largest theater in town. But that was from the Ottawa Civic Center. Yeah. I’m sorry. Sorry. It’s the jumpsuit. You can tell. It’s the Ackermann guitar, we still didn’t have the it’s still got its rotary switch and the top I hadn’t switched that out yet. So it’s easy for me to be able to look at a picture like that go. Oh, yeah. 1979 Yeah,

Nestor J. Aparicio  38:57

it’s a period piece. There’s the front. And then there’s the back. Yeah, I knew you were teaching and you know, I’m not keeping up with every word you’re writing or any Rockstar, quite frankly, I love your music. I listened to hold on this morning. I I think that’s my favorite older fight. The good fight was my original favorite. And I, I think of your academic side, and the teaching side of where life took you in that way, when you were coming down here and playing on weekends, and RAM said, Tell me about life as a teacher. Is that something that when you were in conflict with the band in the 80s, that you thought that’s something I would do because so many artists, Billy Joel, I’m thinking all these people that wanted to be teachers, or put themselves into some sort of, even if they’re doing a podcast, or they’re trying to educate people, but you really took it on as your real teacher in a real university for a long, long time. Right.


Rik Emmett  39:46

Yeah, and I mean, you know, I think it was in my nature, I mean, I’ve got four kids and three of them are teachers. So So I think it’s in the DNA, and I think there would be people that would look In my body of work, and especially those triumph songs that you mentioned, and they would go, you know, there’s a little kind of a didactic pedantic quality to the songs that he writes. It’s like, he’s kind of in a in a, in a pulpit and he’s preaching a little bit, you know, and I think it was one of the things honestly that the other guys who tried kind of like, oh, geez, Frick, not another one of these, you know, like,

Nestor J. Aparicio  40:24

to live their lives, literally, right? Yeah.

Rik Emmett  40:28

Well, the thing was, like, I did when I joined the band, they’d already picked up this name, they’d already it was already was already called trials. And they had all of this promotional material that it had nothing to do with a band that was called triumphing with show devils heads and fire and, and I’m going, what is this gonna go? Well, there was another band called hellfire. And we just decided to use that imagery, and put your call in the band triumph. And it took me a while, but you mentioned the song, hold on, I think that was when I sort of figured out, Hey, you can marry the music, to the name to what you’re into what it is that you do up on stage, where the band was kind of be going like, hey, instead of going, Hey, let’s party like, it’s, you know, like, we’re, there’s no tomorrow, let’s let’s have that sex and drugs and rock and roll thing. And I think guilt kind of felt like, that’s the kind of band he might, he might have wanted to have, like, a band that had songs like kiss, you know, and I was going, No, it’s called triumph. And, you know, these folks that are out in the seats, they’re in high school, and they’re, they’re struggling, they’re having a hard time, you know, they’re trying to find their own identities. And let’s offer them something which helps them to feel good about themselves. So songs like mesh power, and hold on and fight the good fight. And, you know, I could go on and on, but I would only be going into the beat cuts in the secrets. somebody’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  41:50

out there. I mean, from a hit standpoint, to say there’s hope there’s an aspirational part, to almost everything you’ve ever written. And I think 40 years later, the grownup version of Rick, it’s amazing to me, it’s 22. For anyone like you, who was gifted enough to write something that 40 years later, I listened to and say, Man, I didn’t even understand what they were writing about when I was 15. And singing the words, but this isn’t deep shit. And for a 21 year old to write that, and still be singing it 40 years later, and for it to be aspirational, aspirational, and hope that’s, that lasts a lifetime. That is universal, right.

Rik Emmett  42:26

And that was the kind of stuff that I was reaching for. And so back to your question about being a teacher, I think that’s what motivates teachers, they’re trying to help other people find the best parts of themselves, and take advantage of those things, like, work on them, and work them up and work them out. And so, there’s, like, that work ethic kind of thing is in there, you know, and, yeah, I mean, like, it’s not like, you want to be banging people over the head with it. And you do want to offer people recreation in the true sense of the words that they recreate themselves through the work because they find something of a value in that, that makes them feel better and, and feel good about life, you know, so I was always pushing for that, that’s a very teacherly kind of thing. And then, once I got in there, and I was doing it, I think I’m probably gonna sound like every other teacher that’s talking about after they’ve retired. Like, there are kids that are there, they’re, they’re gonna burn you out. Like, they’re just there, you know, and I would say to them, sometimes, like, you’ve paid money to be in this course. Like, why are you not doing the work that you know, is required? And they’re going well, you know, I’m not sure that I want to be like, Well, I don’t get that, you know, I honestly I don’t understand. And there would be other students that they would make your day they would make your life you know, you would have and I’ll tell you a quick little story, because anecdotes are the best way to do these things. Especially in these podcasts.

Nestor J. Aparicio  43:58

I love long form. I used to take phone calls for a living. No, you have two minutes. Tell me teach me something Rick Emmett.

Rik Emmett  44:05

Okay, so I got a guy in my class, and he’s a guitar player. And he’s not a very good one in the cohort. Like if there’s, say, 40, not even close, and probably only about 20 guitar players left by the time they get to third year, fourth year. And he’s probably number 18 on the list, right? And he knows it. And I know it, and he they’re supposed to be doing marketing plans, business plans for me as part of the music business course that I’m teaching. This was early on, in my teaching thing, so he says to me, Look, Rick, I want to talk to you about my marketing plan. He goes, this guitar. I don’t know what to do. And I don’t think guitar is the thing I go, Well, you know, I don’t want to sound nasty or cruel, but I agree with you. So what do you think because, well, I’ve been going out to the park on the weekends, and I’ve been practicing bagpipes, and I go, bagpipes you say? He goes, Yeah, he goes, it’s a horrible racket. You know, and I’m not great at it, but I’m getting better at it and it goes, but I’m thinking I might want to do a business plan about, you know, playing bagpipes for a living, and I go, Okay, tell me more. extrapolate this legal. Let me hear what you’re thinking about. He goes well, he goes, you know, here in Canada, there’s a lot of Scottish Presbyterian churches, and they have funerals and they have weddings, and, you know, they would be bagpipe players. And he goes, so I’m thinking that I do a mailing list and I would do to the Presbyterian churches and go, Well, that’s very good. You know, that’s solid. He goes, okay. I was at a hockey banquet, you know, a month ago, and they had a bagpiper guy bagpipe in the, the front table the all the guests and stuff. And he was so I’m thinking, you know, I could do that special events of the Scottish nature or you know, Echo. All right, this is sounding solid. To me, this is a good idea. And you’re thinking along the right lines. So go ahead, do your business plan. So he tested business plan. And in the end, it’s good. It’s really solid, like whether or not he’s going to be a bagpipe guy, this Miss marketing plan, this business plan. It’s a smart one, you know, he’s figured out about and if I get a bank loan Of this amount, and I’m making, I’m earning this kind of money, I’ll be able to pay the bank back, blah, blah, blah, just all the shit. So, months, years go by, and I get an email one day and it’s from the sky. And he goes, Rick, I don’t know if you remember me will buzz in your classroom. I’m gonna do my business plan of a bagpipe tournament? Because, look, I’m not a bagpiper. It goes, I ended up. He said, I Oh, I just took what you taught me about how to think. And I put together a business plan. He goes, I now run three Bush planes and two helicopters in and out of the Northwest Territories in the Yukon. And I do medical supplies. And I do blah, blah, blah. And, and he goes, You know, I got a really great business. And I have you to thank for it because you talk and I go, Okay, could a teacher ever hope for anything better than an email like that, you know, it’s like, You made my day You made my week You made my year. And it only takes one like you can have 50 failures. But if you have the one when you go, I’ll take it. Thank you very much.


Nestor J. Aparicio  47:15

So when I walk up to you and say I love your song, it’s meant so much to me fight the good fight got me through tough times in my life. Like, that doesn’t weigh as much as teaching, to some degree that adulation that you always felt from girls from boys from, you know, all you. I mean, I’ve got your autograph on a on an album that you drew in silver and did a guitar neck and I thought it’s an artistic guy this weekend fellow. But but there is something about the pragmatic part of changing someone’s life in that way. As a teacher, maybe it means more to you than a song.

Rik Emmett  47:50

Yeah, I mean, you know, you mentioned exhalation, like, I never did it because I was wanting to. Well, I shouldn’t say that. I mean, of course, everybody wants to get somebody else’s approval. And oh, they like me, Oh, that’s great, you know, but I was doing it. Because I was interested in the process, I was interested in doing this creative thing that would then have some sort of benefit or value in the final analysis that other folks would go. Yeah, this isn’t just a great piece of music. This is a great piece of music that made me think, or this is a great piece of music that helped me understand how to feel about certain things, or, like, it was always I didn’t want just the music, I wanted some sort of substance, you know, some sort of an integrity that existed in what it was doing. And you know, you’ve mentioned these bands that have lasted, you know, and you mentioned you to and rush. And I think both of those acts or acts that went no, no, there’s an integrity that we do here. That’s what we do. There’s something of something substantial that we must offer that goes beyond the, you know, the shallow Oh, kind of, hey, you bought a ticket, I’m going to show you a good time for the next hour and a half, like, yes, there’s that there’s no question that that’s part of it. But it’s like, what will you take away? And I used to tell this to my students all the time, offer people something that money can’t buy. That’s what you offer people in the work that you do something that Money Can’t Buy, which of course, that’s the MasterCard, you know, oh, this is priceless. Yeah, but that’s the truth of it. Like, if you really want to do something that’s going to matter and that’s going to have value that lasts. You gotta you gotta, you gotta build it in there. Spoken

Nestor J. Aparicio  49:43

like the man who wrote music holds the secret to know it can make you whole. So, last couple of things for you because our time is a short wait.

Rik Emmett  49:55


Because what you just said was a poem that I wrote in grade 12 That was in high school, that that lyric music was a secret to no can make your whole. It’s not just the Cayman notes. It’s the sounds inside your soul. That was a poem that I wrote in high school. So, you know, I’m not exactly a 23 year old Joni Mitchell writing both sides now. But I did have a poem that ended up as a pretty decent lyric

Nestor J. Aparicio  50:19

that is an 18 year old, right? I sing this song for the common man, for the people in despair. What did you know about the people in despair except outside Toronto,

Rik Emmett  50:31

those that part came later I didn’t write. Those were written as a as a guy in 1978, or 79, and a band, thinking about being on stage and going, what do I want to say to those people that are in the seats that are climbing up on the seats when we blow up the fleshpots? And are standing? Next hour I go, What do I want to say to them, and I go, Well, I write the song for the common man, for the people and despair. Like if you’re feeling bad, I can make you feel better. I will offer you something that can make you feel better. And that’s building towards a song it’s gonna go into detail you need to do more on the floor. Just go. It’s gonna be hold on to your dreams, like it’s gonna feel good. That’s where it’s headed. Well,

Nestor J. Aparicio  51:18

it’s, this has been a lot of fun. I’m indebted. You’re talking about things. You This has been priceless. I couldn’t buy a cameo with you that lasted this long. I’m glad you wrote this book read two last things, the touring and that he’s ended his touring and like that, um, what? What do you think about that? Is there is there six weeks in a summer where you would want to come down and just hang out and play at ramset? And do a couple of those things for fun? Because it would be fun for you and not shit. I’m on the road again. I’m in a hotel again. I mean, is there any point where we’ll get to see your play? That’s a pretty common question. Right?


Rik Emmett  51:54

Yeah. And I, you know, I am a guy that wrote a song that said, Never say never, and I, you know, I do find it dangerous to, you know, take a really big paintbrush and paint and brush strokes. But I should tell you, I’ve been struggling with some arthritis in my hands. And that’s changing things. I don’t know how much it will. And um, you know, as you alluded to earlier, I have gone through a sort of a cancer treatment. Now I’m sort of trying to deal with this advent of rheumatoid arthritis. And I don’t know how much it’s going to, you know, knock a hole in my ability to so it’s certainly going out on the road and traveling and, you know, you you just said about, you know, oh, hotels and airports. And that does seem like a grind to me. And I got to admit, my wife has been patiently sitting around for decades waiting for hay, you know, she’s she’s going to go to on a safari, she’s going to like Kenya, Nairobi. And like she she’s going to do this this year. Like, I’m not going with her. Like, that’s not my that’s not my idea of fun. You know,

Nestor J. Aparicio  53:01

I go home at a ballgame with Rogers when you know, when the Orioles are in town, right, literally.

Rik Emmett  53:05

And I want to I would like to be in the luxury box, you know.

Nestor J. Aparicio  53:12


Baseball that let’s end with baseball here and you’re still follow it still as big as maybe you ever were.

Rik Emmett  53:19

my news feed is full of like, I get all the Guitar World stuff and blah, blah, blah, and then I get all the baseball stuff. So yes, I remain hip to the fact that, you know, pitchers and catchers reported a couple of days ago position players are there now. Like, yeah, I mean, and I, I’ve gotten to spring training a couple of times, like, we went and saw a game once a Cubs game in there. They’re over in Arizona, but, and of course, my son played at a collegiate level that he was NCAA, NCAA division one. And so they would go and have spring training down in Florida, and I would go see him play sometimes. He’s now in his 30s. And, you know, he’s got a baby on the way and he doesn’t play baseball that much. But he’s still coaches. That’s one of the things. He’s the one that’s not a teacher, but he’s still a coach. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  54:16

if you pick up a guitar and play sometimes in a podcast like this, or just play and play, try of stuff for fans once a year. I mean, when’s the last time you picked up the guitar and played any of the songs you’ve been talking about? Because you don’t have an audience for it, right?

Rik Emmett  54:32

Oh, no, I played guitar for about two hours yesterday, two and a half hours. I play guitar every day. I don’t it’s it’s it’s both mentally and physically therapeutic. Like I really should. Because if I don’t I start to get grumpy and you know, feel bad and yeah, so no, I play and I just had this guitar made formula. This was the one that I was talking about the new album 10 I had this a Telecaster but it’s got a les Paul’s scale length and pickups and string height. And this only weighs about six and a half pounds. So this is incredibly light and easy to play. So I’m no, I’m still, I’m still into it. And the answer to your question about gigs and public appearances, like, I will go out and get interviewed, I’m doing one in April in, in Brampton, Ontario, where a guy interviews me and I got a guitar there. And I’ll play a few little things I might not play, you know, a full song, I might play just six, but I might, I might play one or two, I would play late on the line or magic power. And I just I was over in Sweden or New Years. And because I had some friends, blah, blah, blah, playing in a band in a junior rock world Hockey Championships. And it was like, Hey, Rick, come on over and sing. And we’ll do some crime songs. You know, we’ll do two or three. So I did a little mini set of magic power late on the line. And he and it was great. It was fun, like, really


Nestor J. Aparicio  55:57

retired in your own mind. You’re very, you’re just retired from getting on a plane and coming to Annapolis, Maryland and doing this pretty much.

Rik Emmett  56:05

Well, I might do it one as a one off, I would never do it as I’m gonna go to Annapolis. And then the next night, we’re gonna put Baltimore and then the next day we’re gonna play Washington and then the next one, like, I would never want it. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  56:16

what I need to do is get like when the Blue Jays are in town, figure out an Oriole thing, call my friends and Laura and those folks and say, Look, he’s here. He’s bringing a guitar, pay him and let’s get together and like, like, enjoy that we’re alive and you’re alive. And we can share this music.

Rik Emmett  56:33


Sounds like a great plan. That’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  56:35

it. I’m going to end it. And

Rik Emmett  56:38

I want to meet to catch her.

Nestor J. Aparicio  56:40

Oh, rutschman Oh, you need to be rutschman Okay, all right. Yeah,


Rik Emmett  56:44

I’ll see what I can do. That’s my kind of ballplayer. I love the fact that at the end of every inning, no matter what, he goes over, and as the pitchers coming off, he goes behind him and he gives him a pat on the ass or a pat on the back and walks them back to the dugout like, Okay, anything you want to talk about. Let it go. That’s my kind of guy. That’s my kind of player.

Nestor J. Aparicio  57:04

Who’s your favorite all time player? That’ll tell me my I’m George Brett and Tony Gwynn. Those are my guys forever. I knew Gwen a lot don’t know, Brett, but Brett was always my guy who was your guy?

Rik Emmett  57:14

Yeah. Well, I think I well, you know, there’s a part of me that loves the whole Lou Gehrig thing. You know that kind of a player. That was the humble modest, you know, but modern players. Wow. It’s a tough call. The Jays have got Guerrero is a pretty good hitter. And Bichette is getting better every year. I expect him to have an amazing year this year. But I don’t know. I mean, Baltimore’s got a few man like catchers good. And Anderson’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  57:50


gonna be great. We got to get what you we got Jackson holiday you talk about you mentioned Guerrero and PICHETTE like, I remember their fathers and interviewing their fathers 30 years ago, when we have Jackson holiday to Matt holidays kid is going to be a superstar here

Rik Emmett  58:03

this year, for sure. And so who’s the first baseman again? male cast?

Nestor J. Aparicio  58:07

Well, I mean, we got the shortstop their basic gunner Henderson’s probably the name that you’ve that

Rik Emmett  58:12

you add to it. Yeah, yeah. So many guys that are the right kind of ballplayers. And so my my members forum, there’s a lot of talk about baseball all the time. One


Nestor J. Aparicio  58:22

one’s we lost 120 games for five years in a row. And this is what

Rik Emmett  58:28

I was picking Baltimore to do better in the playoffs, and I don’t I don’t think they’ll, they’ll do better this year. But I was picking them to go all the way I thought they had what it took. And then you lost your your relief guy. And that was that was

Nestor J. Aparicio  58:45

hard. Yeah. Yeah. They say Kimbrel they gave Kimbrough a lot of money. But the new ownership part here. I mean, if there’s anything that the glean from your book and the breakup of triumph, it’s sort of like who’s running the place and how it gets run. And everybody’s happiness is important. We haven’t had a lot of that here. So the the, the sunshine that I put over Camden Yards here, Rick it’s it’s the sunshine coming over after lots of dark clouds here in Baltimore. Rick, thank you for your time and I very respectful you told me, I said you got 20 minutes, I take an hour I’m like, I’ll take an hour and even make you sing so I appreciate that man. Thank you very much. All right. You’re welcome. Rick am at the book is laying on the line. I was the beautiful conversation, a backstage pass the rock star adventure, conflict and triumph and a really good looking young version of Rick and then the current good looking modern version of Rick the teacher. Good luck with the book. I hope to have you to ballgame one day over a cold bath and a proper hot dog. All right. Nestor Thank you. Appreciate you Rick, me joining us here from a beautiful Toronto, our neighbors to the north. I’m Nestor we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore. Back for more on wn st in Baltimore positive right after this

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