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Orioles get the other end of an orange broom in Houston


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Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the ugly Orioles sweep in Houston and getting some home cooking for Guardians and Rangers at Camden Yards this week.


year, orioles, pitching, games, week, talking, yankees, team, baseball, play, elias, bullpen, series, pitch, feel, weekend, deal, runs, burns, win


Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home we are wn S T A in 1570, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive we are positively into a week of home Oriole baseball and our final crab cake tour before the Fourth of July take a little respite this week. We will not be at fade Lee’s on Friday but you can be at fade these on Friday for what will be a big Joan Jett weekend. It goes without saying that I love rock and roll. I had a great rock and roll experience that I’m gonna talk about. At some point in the segment with Greg Hawkes Rock and Roll Hall of Famer of the cars of Appleton High School of our county learned tons about Greg Hawkes. He is appearing on Saturday night with a band called Eddie Japan down in RAM said Annapolis. So be on the lookout for that this week. Get a lot of baseball happening this week. Luke, I will be at Pappas on Tuesday giving these gold rush seven doublers away. I don’t know where the Orioles are going to be in all of this. Our friends at Liberty pure solutions put us out on the road, Jiffy Lube, multi care, helping us get these wise conversations out. And look, man, there’s been a lot of praise here specifically for the Orioles. On the field, if not off the field in various ways. I think we both have our skepticism about the new owner, I have some inside skepticism about the new owner. But it’s been 96% Praise here. And the rest of the criticism has been more about the structure of the bullpen and pitching. And when they’re bringing young players up and when they hit the gas. And when they hit the brakes on Mullins and Hayes and different guys. But when you’re winning every night, and even the Yankees feel good of what happened in the Bronx last week. You know, you measure the season, all star break will measure in a couple of weeks and say boy, that series in St. Louis and oh, that one down in Houston. They’re not as bad as they looked over the weekend. They’re not falling apart that you know, I’m not buying all of that. But that said they didn’t hit the ball. And the pitching is what you and I would be concerned the pitching would be if we knew means and Bradish and wells. Were all taking knives before like, you know, it got hot out.


Luke Jones  02:22

Yeah, look, if no one’s expecting me to go on the air after a three game sweep and start pressing the panic button and saying This stinks. And that stinks. I mean, that’s, you know, me, that’s not my style. Anyway. This was way worse than the St. Louis series. I don’t think there’s any question about that. That was more of a weird, you had some weather delays, John means gets hurt that series, there’s, they had a chance to win all those games. Whereas this was a largely pretty non competitive series. I mean, until late Friday night where they’re down at 111 runs and they score a bunch of runs to make it semi interesting in the ninth inning. But other than that, it was not a very competitive series. I think, frankly, it felt like a letdown. It felt like a weekend where they didn’t play well, obviously. Are they tired? I mean, look, it’s not a free pass. You know, it’s not a Get Out of Jail Free card. But we have talked a lot about this stretch of lack of off days. They’ve had challenges to their pitching over that stretch from a health standpoint. Obviously, this last turn through the rotation was ugly, including Grayson Rodriguez and Corbin burns not pitching well, so yeah, I mean, if you’re gonna tell me those guys aren’t gonna pitch well, on top of the questions they already have. They’re probably going to have a bad series when that comes to pass. So, you know, I don’t think it’s a panic time whatsoever. I think it’s that we’re so accustomed to this team playing not just good baseball, but great baseball. I mean, we’re, we’re talking Sunday afternoon, 72 hours removed from the thrill of Thursday afternoons game in the Bronx where you and I are at Costas in and everyone’s feeling great. cozied up at the bar watching the Orioles blow out the Yankees and life is good. We had

Nestor J. Aparicio  04:09

a lady there eating crabs just screaming you were just screaming. Yeah,

Luke Jones  04:13

yeah, but but but it was a reminder that boy, this game can humble you quickly. And I mean, look, the Yankees lost a series over the weekend, too. I mean, that’s probably the best. The saving grace of the weekend was the the Yankees lost two out of three. So you only lost the game in the standings. But yeah, it was an ugly weekend. I’m not gonna sit here and try to sugarcoat it, whether they’re tired or not. Hey, you gotta play right? I mean, again, no one’s gonna feel sorry for you. And we’ve talked about that for for a month and a half now as far as the stretch and they played extremely good baseball, despite the lack of off days over the last five, six weeks, but they better recover quickly. Because Cleveland is coming to town Texas is coming to town after that the Rangers are feeling better about themselves here of late despite a a rough start to the season for the defending champs. So there’s no, there’s no time to lick your wounds, there’s no time to feel sorry for yourself, there’s no time to be tired, quite frankly, you know, you have to turn the page and move past this series. And I think they will, because that’s something that this team has done a good job job of. You mentioned the same. We mentioned the St. Louis series. It’s strange just to think that they’ve been swept twice now in just over a month. But I’ll also remind, they went 20 and seven between those two series. So it’s not as though they’ve been struggling, you know, overall. So, you know, I think you have to take it for what it was, which was an ugly weekend, but it was just a weekend. But clearly, the pitching with the injuries with all the conjecture and discourse about where the bullpen is where the starting rotation is right now. When’s Dean Kramer coming back, you know, Kyle Bradish. And John means aren’t walking through that door. So, you know, it’s I think, not that I don’t think a reminder was necessary, but it is a reminder of what happens when you don’t pet pitch well. And then to your point, Friday nights late inning app for not withstanding, they didn’t swing the bat at all on Saturday or Sunday. So you know, Houston has been playing better of late. I think we know. That’s an Astros team. That’s still very, very talented. I think you and I even mentioned it in passing at a few points over the first couple months of the season, with them being off to such a bad start. But with Oreos, went into Euston and got their feelings hurt. So you know it, it kind of is what it is. And you come back home and you have to regroup and turn the page. And as Brandon Hyde said in the postgame flush that series, because it’s not a whole lot of redeeming qualities to take from that series, quite frankly. So just an ugly weekend. And the fact that it stands out so much as a philosophy is the right word, but certainly surprising. That just speaks to how good this team has been the last couple years because the stretch, you know, even a series like this, these types of series have been just so few and far between because they have played so well. Over the last two years.

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:14


Lucas here will be at Pappas in Parkville. I want to say that again, because I didn’t say where we were going to be. Make sure you don’t think we’re in Timonium or cockys Ville area or up in Bel Air. Danna Glenburnie. We’re gonna be at the original on Tuesday for a Maryland crab cake tour. Um, you know, I guess the biggest question now, when you say something like, Bradish isn’t walking through that door. And I’m thinking, you know, we haven’t said that, that hasn’t totally sunk in, it’s there. But it doesn’t sink into the third, fourth, fifth time through the rotation. And you’re not playing 650 Ball anymore. You’re just trying to play 525 ball, and you’re just trying to get through it. And when I mean that, I mean, this week, we’re a bad week, and you don’t want to turn it into a bad week. And look, this isn’t, you know, the White Sox getting off the bus here. Right? These are, the guardians have been among the best teams in baseball, playing great baseball. I’m going out to Cleveland this week a little bit to learn a little bit more about what’s on their mind. I thought they were just thinking browns, who knew that they’d be thinking about World Series. But even John Martin, who from the Maryland lottery was our resident old school, Cleveland, I mean, you know, just talking about them. They’re experiencing something there that we’re experiencing here. And then Texas comes in bad start, but you know, they flew a flag and got rings. And you mentioned Grayson Rodriguez having a bad start. Well, you know, this is you don’t get a whole lot of chances to wash those ghosts out of Texas last year, certainly for you and I going down there, we had a nice trip. We had some good barbecue, and then they laid a turd and you know, we had our press credentials threatened and we got out of there. And you know, they haven’t seen Texas in that way. Where, you know, Texas is gonna come in, it’s hot. You know, let’s see how the Cleveland thing goes. But you gotta make sure you’re not to an eight this week, or you know, like, oh, one three, okay, after New York, but you start to segment these things and say your company’s good teams. Here comes the hot weather. This is you know, this is a week you don’t want to go real upside down. This is a week you got to get get home and get corrective on all of this but to your point, it’s not gonna get corrected with Bradish it’s gonna have to get corrective with next time Burns is out next time Rodriguez is out and how do we survive? Povich who we didn’t really want to bring up anyway you know, he’d still be in Norfolk and the tea leaves written you know been the right way means that Brad is for a year. He’d be the trade bait. He you know, I don’t know but not and they have to figure this out and make this work. And this is where like the really smart guys like you as we get up on five weeks out on trading day headline. This is where a lot of our conversations, after losses specifically after wins last week, beat the Yankees everything’s cool. It feels like it’s going to be together. But I think you and I and really smart people in the room know that they need to get better with their pitching it just in general, they need to find something they don’t have here yet. And how they’re going to find out how they’re going to deal that’s really going to define the season as much as Bradish getting hurt or Wells not being available. Or, you know, even hazing Mullins not being the biggest part of what they’re doing right now. And Henderson and rutschman. And all these guys that are phenom is continuing to be phenom, they weren’t over the weekend. But the pitching side of this is where we’re all concerned where we’re all sort of focused and watching it. And to me it’s going to come from outward, not inward. I I’m not expecting big things from the bottom of this rotation. I’m when I get to things great, but I’m not expecting Cole Urban’s era to, you know, hover of two or two and a half the rest of the way. And little more worried about Rodriguez with all the things you talked about about innings and wear and tear and where he is and how he’s never really stood up and been a bulldog of a guy. He’s a young guy, but he’s never going to be a 230 inning guy. They’re not going to let him be that guy. So what’s he going to be? And yeah, I’m worried about all of it as the weather heats up, and they come home this week, because they really come out with big, not just Joan Jett, but big expectations that this homestand is going to write things. And they always have before they always had before.

Luke Jones  11:39

Well, and you just kind of set it I mean, I’m not gonna sit here and sound, the panic alarm. I’m just not this team has been too good for too long to feel that way. Now, your points about the pitching. We’ve talked about the pitching. I’m not as concerned about Grayson Rodriguez just because he didn’t pitch Well, Friday night. And to your point, he was a hell of a bulldog against the Phillies last weekend at a time where they really needed it. So you know, let’s not and I’m not suggesting you were, because

Nestor J. Aparicio  12:05

I know I’m saying once dogging that Bulldog mentality is not going to apply to him given injuries in the past and give them where they’re going to where they’re going to put them out there. That’s all.

Luke Jones  12:15

Okay. Okay. Fair enough. But who are you going to acquire that they’re going to do that with you know what I mean? Like, I think that’s just the era that we’re living in, right? I mean, they’re part of


Nestor J. Aparicio  12:24

giving him and burns and some other guys a gentle touch, once they’re 20 starts into the season, and it’s 100 degrees out, and they’re playing every day, part of the gentle touch of let’s go six, man, let’s give you an extra day, let’s push you a days where we push it in you like at this point at this, that wasn’t a problem in May. And it wasn’t something we’ve even said out loud when we’re saying it out loud, because he lost three pitches in a month.

Luke Jones  12:49

Yeah, yeah. And keep in mind, they are winding down this stretch of very few off days. So they’ll have more off days, they have the all star break coming up. So I don’t know if there’s really a need for a six band. But come August, that might be a different conversation. And that’s why we’ve talked so much about the trade deadline. So I mean, look, pitching is fragile. We’ve talked about this over and over and over. I talked about this a lot. One of the big reasons, the Orioles were able to overtake the race. And this is taking nothing away from the Orioles. But remember all the pitching injuries, the raise head, it was kind of a similar time of year it was you know they lost McClanahan and some other guys and I mean it really added up for them to the point where they were still really good the rest of the way but the Orioles were better. And I think the health of their pitching or the lack of health of their pitching compared to the Orioles staying as healthy as they did, pitching wise last year proved to be the difference. Now I’ll point this out. Take a look at the Yankees right now. Anthony Rizzo is on the IL Giancarlo Stanton just went on the aisle. Now I know, those aren’t pitchers. And obviously, they just welcome Garrett colback, as we saw firsthand in the Bronx. But one of the big questions that I had, and I know a lot of people had, as it pertains to this division race and the Yankees, was there a very veteran laden club with some of their bats in their lineup? Are they going to hold up? You know, is that going to last over six months? And here recently, we’ve seen them have some injuries. So the point is, look, attrition is part of the season. And I don’t sit here making excuses for Mike Elias or for the Orioles. Could they have added more from a pitching standpoint beyond just making the Corbin burns trade? Over the offseason? Yeah, they could have but at the same time, they had a transition and ownership. John Angeles wasn’t spending any money that was evident over the last few years. Will David Rubenstein spend money? I have no idea. You know, I think we all assume that but until we see it, we don’t know. So point is, yeah, there were opportunities in the offseason to add more pitching and they didn’t do it. So it is what it is. They’ve lost the guys that they’ve lost. And now it’s a case of trying to figure out about who the buyers and who the sellers are going to be when it comes to pitching because yeah, they’re going to need at least one starting pitcher. And I think they’re going to need probably a couple bullpen arms. You know, if you’re really looking at this thing, through the lens of trying to optimize your team trying to really fortify your chances here that said, and I saw someone make the point, I can’t remember who it was, I saw it on Twitter or, you know, social media late Sunday night. Any World Series team, you look at it, and we talked about this a lot in the NFL, what’s the salary cap? Right, understanding that your roster building is always going to have some level of limitations to it. A World Series champions not going to have a perfect roster most likely, you know, I think you look back at the last 10 years, even with considering payroll and how much teams spend and all that.

Nestor J. Aparicio  15:48

I know you’re young and 83 but in a Tom Cruise was part of that team. Right. Right. Right. I mean, like, come on. Yeah,

Luke Jones  15:56


I mean, look at look at the Rangers last year. Look, I know they got a with ivaldi and Jordan Montgomery doing what they did. But who was our third starter? And I’m not talking about Max Scherzer coming back and pitching later in the in the postseason, who was our third starter people probably don’t even remember who it was right now. It’s not as though they had this dominant locked down bullpen. Now, I’m not saying that to disparage the Rangers last year. The point is, that wasn’t a perfect baseball team by any stretch of the imagination. So what I’m saying

Nestor J. Aparicio  16:25

why it to be healthy and well constructed? And oh, no, not in June. Right.

Luke Jones  16:29

Well, and that’s part of this, but so much of this is also how healthy are you? And to how well are you playing? I mean, Arizona was a great example of this. Arizona was very mediocre last year, very mediocre go look at what you know, we remember what their regular season record was. They started playing well late in the season. And then they rolled that in October and guess what? They went out spend a bunch of money this offseason even and they’re mediocre again so a lot of this

Nestor J. Aparicio  16:58

that’s baseball if you’ve been a fan most of your Yeah, and when you were how much money the Yankees used to spend and how much money various teams have spent the Tigers just you know over budget to win maybe Peter year, you know back in the day with the David stickies in the gym like that doesn’t that doesn’t ring the bell going out and doing it and staying healthy while you do it is what rings the bell? Yeah.


Luke Jones  17:21

And we’ve seen this now with a number examples including the Orioles last year, you can win 100 plus games, and October doesn’t really care. It really doesn’t care, you get to October and you get the wrong matchup or you get in a slump at the wrong time, especially with these three game wildcard series. So look, we’re we’re getting ahead of ourselves with that. But part of the point is the Orioles are in really good position right now. I think we all would agree with that. Now we could debate whether they’re gonna win the Al east or overtake the Yankees or whatever. But they’re 20 plus games over 500. Before the all star break. Yeah, back in April, regardless of what was going to happen if someone just asked, Hey, would you sign up for being 49 and 28? At the conclusion of the Houston series entering the final week in June, I think anyone would have signed up for that without knowing any of the variables, you would have said, Yeah, I’ll take that. So they’re in great shape. We’re going to see about the pitching. Mike Elias has what, five, five and a half weeks until the trade deadline to make make moves. I think it’s still very difficult figuring out who exactly the sellers are. I mean, you can go, you know, people have talked about the White Sox pitchers and I get that, you know, the White Sox are 3537 40, the games under 500. There are going to be sellers. Okay. So we know that. That said they have some younger pitchers that still have club control that they might try to hold on to because you just don’t know. But I’ll use the Cardinals. A few weeks ago, you and I were mentioning maybe the Orioles bring Kyle Gibson back. Current cartels are in the midst of the wildcard race right now. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  18:55

I mean, who exactly that will change with three or four teams in the next four weeks. Now in the All Star break, we’ll go to win eight and three and 11 and other teams will catch fire and fire fans 13 and eight, their five gate you know what I mean? That fires a couple of games over 500 over the next month. I mean, the Orioles had been very consistent and and we’ve never seen anything like it. And I think the expectations of them. winning the World Series in June are too high because you can’t win the World Series in June. You can only win the World Series in November. So I’m patient through this but I am seeing the boat, hit some rocks a little bit. And they’ve always managed to push off because they have players that can do that. And they have the ability to score seven runs in the ninth day when the game’s already over with and as my dad would say save some of those runs for the weekend. He would have said that in the Bronx on Thursday. That they look like the greatest team on Earth Friday when you and I were at you know we didn’t even do a piece after Thursday we did a piece on will Amazing people can go listen to that we did that over cost this on the Maryland crab cake tour. And I feels like we should have spiked the ball a little more on Friday morning because it is rarefied air when you go into New York and you just beat the pants out of them on the last day, and you’re feeling that good. But, boy, what a thought and probably a quick little lesson for the young men of the Orioles in. Hey, remember that plane ride down to Houston? Yeah, that was fun one. Yeah. And what happened? Maybe we came home, we had to play the Guardians. On Monday, it was 95 degrees. And we’re looking up at a weekend donut and Luke and Esther saying, Hey, what’s wrong? Yeah,

Luke Jones  20:41

I mean, it’s and again, some of this is indeed just baseball. Right? I mean, you mentioned the 1983 Orioles a couple moments ago, that team had two seven game losing streaks, and they won the World Series. And they’ve won What 98 games that year, so

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:57


or even poor? What the hell you know about summer 83? Come on. But but it’s just

Luke Jones  21:01

yeah. Again, this feeling as surprising as it did. And look, I was surprised to I wasn’t expecting them to go down to Houston and get swept and it’d be pretty ugly. You’re

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:10

never expected to get swept that you know, they are at some point. And if they are, it’s going to be something like this. Well,

Luke Jones  21:16

and that’s the thing. They had that as much as I made fun of that streak at the end of it because of continuing to count it because of the you know, the postseason sweep to Texas and how it just felt disingenuous. That was still such a weird Statistical Outlier to go that long without being swept. So now when it happens twice, in roughly a month’s time, where’s


Nestor J. Aparicio  21:41

everybody else? Twice in a month? Exactly. What right? And

Luke Jones  21:45

that and some of it’s just how are the games distributed? Right? I mean, okay, they’ve been swept twice, they also went 20 and seven between those two, two sweeps. So if you’re going to tell me, your season is going to be laid out that way. We’re okay, you’re gonna be swept every month, but you’ll go 20 And seven in between those sweeps. I’ll sign up for that, right, you’re gonna be 100 plus when team, you know, are way over that. So it’s just the timing of it. Because yeah, they were feeling so good about themselves. And, look, I’m not gonna sit here and say these guys were cocky or overconfident or even again, some of it’s just, it’s baseball. And Houston is still a team that is formidable, even with some of the injuries they’ve had, it’s still a team that I expect to make a run at least for a wildcard even if they’re not going to necessarily catch the mariners, although there’s still plenty of time for them to do that. So we shouldn’t be shocked in terms of the potential for something like this to happen. For me, it’s very much about the response. Now. It was right around this time last year, if you recall, you know, about a week, week out from from a year but remember, the Orioles had that stretch where think they were playing what Cincinnati and then they go to Houston or they go to New York, they lost six out of seven. And people really thought okay, well, this is a young team coming back to Earth, alright, they got off to a great start. They’re still a wild card contender. And they’re still, they still have a good chance to make the playoffs. But I think there was very much a thought of, oh, this is really starting to go sideways. And then they played out of their minds for three or four weeks right after that. So that’s what I see

Nestor J. Aparicio  23:20

as a young team. When I look at Anderson rutschman It is and Westberg and these guys against the grain. And when I look of even south on there and haze, Melissa Scottson, one anything they want to play off game. But so let the truth still really this is still the proof is still out there to be proven. For all of them. You know, Grayson Rodriguez is in the Hall of potential. You don’t I mean, at the end, they all are. And they you know, these kinds of setbacks are what define them to come home, as I pointed out a minute ago, and Cleveland’s coming in, they think they’re good, too. They went a lot. And Texas is coming in. And they had your number last year for sure. And they they need to play better. See how they all handle this second time around with Texas. First time around after this kind of a weekend. Let’s see how the bats go at home. Let’s see a home cooking serves up. Let’s see how the fans come out. Let’s see if there’s rain delays or not. And you know, like how taxing a week this is going to be because they they like it at home. Yeah,

Luke Jones  24:29


yeah, I think you made you brought up a point. And this is something I wanted to emphasize a little bit as we’re talking about the pitching as we’re trying to see what Mike Elias is going to do, what he isn’t going to do, who’s going to trade who isn’t going to trade all of that we focus so much on the pitching side. To me this this week, and perhaps the next three or four weeks as you know we figure out what exactly the move what moves they’re gonna make, you know, you want to make the right trade. You don’t wanna make the first trade you want to make the right trade and you want to do well What’s best for your organization that’s gonna help you right now. But you also want to keep yourself well positioned for the next couple years in some, and that might also include, hey, you’re going to trade for a starter, who has a year or two of club control left, and yeah, you might give up more on prospects. But then that makes next year look better, not knowing if Kyle Bradish will pitch at all, if Gordon Burns is gonna be here, all those different questions, you and

Nestor J. Aparicio  25:22

I would be very skeptical of anything that that is another Corbin burns, right. At the end of the year, they’d have to rip this up, because I don’t they don’t have a Calvary waiting. The calories all getting sewn up.

Luke Jones  25:34

I mean, they have other guys in their system, but they don’t. Yeah, I mean, right now,

Nestor J. Aparicio  25:38

I’m talking opening day next year who Rodriguez gets hurt right now?


Luke Jones  25:42

Well, okay. I mean, if you keep losing pitchers, there’s not gonna be anything you can do. I mean, at some point in time, Burns is

Nestor J. Aparicio  25:50

a guy that we’re looking at saying, not going to be able to afford him no matter how well it goes.

Luke Jones  25:56

They can afford them. It’s a matter of whether Mike Elias is going to deem that a good investment. And that’s that’s the point I’ve continued to come back to even if David Rubenstein says, hey,

Nestor J. Aparicio  26:06


everyone means all of this Rubinstein stuff based on the way i It’s conjecture, and based on him coming in, and the mystery around him doing anything other than just throwing hats out at people at this point, right? I mean, we haven’t seen a decision made. And you know, I don’t say it’s getting late early. They’re winning a lot of games or selling tickets, whatever they’re going to do. But like, the big decisions that big shot journalists, like you and former journalists, like me asked about is the money is the commitment is the how bad do you want to win is the how much value do you put on the young players, in a stock sense of being a businessman to say, the young guys are gold, we’re not dealing no matter what because we can get them on the cheap for five years. And that’s the only way this is going to work in this market. We’ve done them, we’ve done the financial work on this. That’s the only way it’s going to Tampa’s done that and just said, that’s the only way it’s gonna work for us. That’s the way we’re gonna have to play. I don’t know how they’re gonna play here. But I’ve seen no pronouncement of that. And I don’t know, I know offense to you or anybody else with a press credential. But I’m the only one forcing that you know out loud. And I don’t know that any of you with brush credentials are going to be given access to ask questions about philosophically other than him talking to his his roommates and teammates, and people that are under his employee like Kevin Brown and a broadcast but like, Hey, dude, what’s your philosophy on this? You know what I mean? Like, and we’re gonna judge that out loud the same way we judge Eric, the cost is draft picks in real time, because these decisions are going to be made in real time, whether there’s accountability, or answers or being upfront about it, or how they’re going to be different than Angelo’s. But we’re going to see this in real time, the next five weeks, and my monocles are out on this one, you know, like I’m like, you know, like watching this and saying, How are things different, because if they’re different, this incredible treasure chest of a farm system, either will be everybody will want to pick it apart, or Elias will say, That’s too much like he did last year with Jackson Holliday and Dylan sees. You know, this is where you and I take a deeper dive into the philosophy of what they’re trying to do and how it’s allegedly going to be different than it’s been the last 30 years. Yeah, well,

Luke Jones  28:33

and that’s where, you know, for me the big piece that’s really interesting here. And then I want to go back to a point I was trying to make just about the current club and has as its presently constructed. But a big question for me at this trade deadline. And then obviously, moving forward is what what are the realities that Rubinstein envisions in terms of the payroll because there are more deals out there for you to be made. If you’re willing to take on salary, you’re willing to take on contractual commitment, and not just cheap, controllable starters, or someone that’s just in the final two months of their contract and their rental, you know, that that opens it up? Because, for me, that question really determines how much are you going to pick apart your farm system in dealing and that’s where, you know, I look at this and say, Okay, you’re going to be willing to spend more on the open market. And as you get into the offseason and subsequent offseasons, then you can be a little more aggressive with your prospects. But if that’s not the case, and Mike Elias is working from a tighter budget, as he has the last few years, and look, I’ve never gotten the sense that Mike Elias is sitting, ever sat behind closed doors. Now. It’s not to say one spend more. But I’ve never gotten the sense that Mike Elias was frustrated in that sense that he would go out and hand out a bunch of free agent calm attracts. I don’t think that’s how philosophically, he feels is the best way to build a long term winner. I

Nestor J. Aparicio  30:06

think he really, without cash or so yeah, it’s kind of like it’s kind of like the way if you were running the Dodgers, he wouldn’t be spending like a drunk sailor or I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know. I mean, I

Luke Jones  30:15

don’t know about that. I mean, that’s tough to say, because, you know, I mean, Andrew Freeman was,


Nestor J. Aparicio  30:18

did another 30 million on the payroll would by you burns, right, by you another player. Right. I

Luke Jones  30:23

guess my point is, it’s laying a foundation that they obviously laid over the last four or five years, you know, with drafting with player development with guys like Ryan O’Hearn, who were, you know, cash acquisitions. Not much cash, though, obviously. So, you know, I think through that lens, it’s, you know, where does Elias philosophy and his vision align with what David Rubenstein and the new new ownership group does? So I mean, that’s the big question. That’s the unknown right now we assume more, they’re going to spend what they already have spent more than they did last year. Because

Nestor J. Aparicio  30:59

it’s been such an issue for 30 years, that anything new and this guy thrown out hats and skirt and people and hiding for people like me still and like, here we are, I mean, come on, dude, you’re on the team. Let’s make things different. Let’s be different. You want to be different? Come answer some questions and give me the plan. Like, you know, at some point, we’re gonna don’t make me guess the plan. Like, you know what I mean? Like, what’s the, say, you’re transparent, you took $600 million from the government, you paid 1,000,000,008 for the team? What’s the plan? And your plan from Luke’s question is, how are you spending on players? And that’s 80% of the question. The other 20% of the question is, what are you really doing here? What’s the big plan? Is the big plan to sell the team five years from now for 3.4 billion, and just cash out and have a good time and give away hats for a few years? Is it the resurrect the city, which is that other 20%? But the baseball side of it is? What’s the baseball plan? What’s the budget? What’s what’s going on with the television network? Are you gonna get untangled with the Nationals? Are we gonna get an all star game here? Like, all of that sort of ownership stuff? Of what are you gonna do with the $600 million? I mean, Bill Coleman, I have committed this week to take that survey, they sent a survey out, I haven’t taken it yet. They said, it’s a very fast survey, we’ll see. I went one question into it. I’m like, timeout, I’m gonna do this as stick on the air. So I’m gonna do it the bill, but like, I’m not. It’s been 90 days, like I’m not beat. But the transparency part, I’m beginning to question as to whether they’re going to answer questions and whether they’re going to give a plan at all, or whether the way it’s always been run with Greg Bader, and John Angelo’s is going to still be okay. Because part of this is the interest in the trade thing, the next five, six weeks, they could be more educational with the fans to make it more fun for the fans to buy, giving some sort of level of, hey, we’re new here. We want to win the World Series, and we’re gonna stand up, we’re gonna do every, like, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t, I don’t get the sense that Elias is running this to your point any differently than he would have run it with John that he. And you’re talking about them picking up money into the future with guys that can pitch next opening day and I’m hearing that too. But in the past, they didn’t have enough money around here. To get a Verlander or assures or a doctor, you know, like a 38 year old. Curt Schilling, Randy Johnson late, like that kind of guy, because it would have cost them 15 million bucks to rent the guy for 10 weeks, and they didn’t want to spend that, you know, so we’re talking like taken on 20 or 30 or $50 million into the future of some other contract for a pitcher who’s three years into a five year deal. We never had the money to do anything here. So I think the confidence level of Hey, dude, you’re at least going to be able to do that. If a lie is fine, some Heil Gibson that all you have to do is pay $4 million do over the next eight weeks, and you’ll at least have a picture. Are you committed to that? I think they’re committed to that. But around here, we didn’t. That would be always and I’m going back 40 years, dude. I’m going Craig Lefferts. I’m going, Lonnie Smith skates. I’m going, you know, all of the effort of all of the years, they’ve never taken on salary in August, because they’ve always been bad enough that they’ve never had to, like, they’ve never been the dealer in this kind of thing to say. Yeah, I mean, we made money this year. We sold 30,000 tickets last week, the way Peter would think is we can afford another we can add 15 or $20 million in player in August and September to try to fortify October because you’re gonna be asked to do that to yourself like fleecing the system and paying into the future. In the past. We didn’t even have enough money to rent players for eight weeks.

Luke Jones  35:01


Yeah, I mean, I’m thinking off the top of my head. I mean, Bobby Binya was making money when they traded for him in 1995. I mean, most of their deals and and look, I would, I would venture to guess that most deals you see at the trade deadline are of more the rental variety, right, especially in this day and age where you’ve got three wildcards. Even if a team sells one year, that doesn’t mean that they’re entering a multi year rebuild, right. So, but there’s a lot of unknown there. And I think if you’re willing to take on some salary, and look, I’m not, this isn’t me saying go out there and trade for a terrible contract. This is me saying if there’s a pitcher out there, who is signed for next year, or signed for maybe a year after that, but probably more in the sign for this year, and 25, that’s not going to be a crazy financial commitment, especially with where they are right now with their guys that are either pre arbitration or just entering arbitration, where that’s not going to drastically alter your payroll plan for the next five years.

Nestor J. Aparicio  36:05

ivaldi did for the Rangers last year, and he would have been a guy that if the Orioles want me, they could assign them, we probably would have sneezed at it. I mean, at the time, and he was a difference maker for them. Sure, against us against Arizona. I I’m Look, man, it’s not crystal ball ish. But it is where’s your level of financial commitment right now? And what’s your appetite to deal out of your system, if you feel like Kate Povich is gold, even if he’s a number four starter, because you ain’t gonna have to pay in the next couple of years. And you’re gonna get 160 180. And he’s added him in the way that they probably feel about Dean Kramer, they know he’s never going to be, you know, Frontline, buddy, if he can get the post gets back and gets healthy. What would their appetite be to get that kind of guy and pay $8 million to rent him in August and September, because John A would have balked at the $8 million, let alone whatever Ortiz you would give away? I mean, I’m only going back to Miller, Andrew Miller is an example of giving and getting right. I mean, if not the modern era, we’re still going back 1012 years, but like that era, they did make a move like that. And that was one that cost them a Rodriguez that this ownership may say, well, well, well, we’re not dealing Povich well, because that’s basically what you’d be talking about right now. Yeah. And

Luke Jones  37:31

this is why I said though the whip for me the willingness to go out and get someone who is making some money, which that obviously impacts the overall equation of what you’re giving up. That’s what I’ve been talking about here where, you know, I’m hoping you’re being able to deal from a position of strength from a standpoint of okay, yes, we have prospects a deal. We don’t want to just give these guys away, we don’t want to just start hemorrhaging, or you know, our farm system, just start hemorrhaging talent. And then suddenly, you know, we’ve upgraded our team, but not so much. But what’s this going to mean for next year, the year after that in the year after that, which Elias

Nestor J. Aparicio  38:09

may say, I’m 74 years old, we bought the team and we have Corbin burns, and I paid him 180 million next year. So let’s win now. I know. Let’s win now. And maybe John Angelos is still involved in this because Greg baiters and maybe saying, Hey, man, we got one chance I’m hanging on to win this year, because my family aimmune own the team next year. Maybe John, I don’t know. I mean, I think behind the scenes here, this is real serious business for all of them, because they’re probably not going to have burns next year. Right? I mean, and then we’re always going to be asking about their pitching, because they’re probably buying a pitcher like him on the market off the market or growing one. If Rodriguez becomes one, there comes a point where it gets expensive.


Luke Jones  38:54

Yeah, sure. I mean, this team’s gonna get expensive one way or the other point in time, right. So it’s, again, what path? Are you picking to navigate that? You know, are you going to start spending more? Do you get to a position where you’re like Tampa, where your guys that your homegrown guys are getting closer and closer to free agency? Yeah. Hopefully you extend some of those guys, but you might flip some of those other guys. I mean, that’s what Tampa has done. That’s been the model for the raise. I’m not saying the Orioles are going to be that or should be that. But you have to figure out how to navigate that. But, you know, again, the financial piece of this isn’t is inevitable in terms of, it’s going to become more expensive, whether it’s acquiring pitching, whether it’s going out and signing something, you know, guys that you trade in your system that you’re projecting to be a starter a year or two from now. If you then trade them for a pitcher, you might need to go sign someone at that position. So that’s all of it. Last point I want to make because I jumped around this and then we got into David Rubenstein. Where the Orioles are right now meaning today, between today and whenever they start acquiring pitching on the trade market because they’re going to make moves, whether we like those moves, whether those moves work out. Those are another question, but they’re going to make moves. I think that’s obvious. But what I want to see in the meantime, and this is where the Houston series was disappointing on Saturday and Sunday, they need their bats to step up their offense, their lineup is intact, right. Okay, Jackson holidays on the island, we expect them to come back at some point in time. And you know, they’ve had some guys with nagging injuries here and there for a few days, but their, their lineups intact, and they have one of the best offensive in baseball. You know, what I’d like to see understanding right now that Kyle Bradish John means Tyler wells, Danny coulomb are not walking through that door Colome until September, hopefully. Hopefully, he’s backed by them. But they need their offense to step up a little bit. And that’s what was disappointing luck Friday night, you get rushed, you give up that many runs. Yeah, you’re gonna lose. But Saturday’s game was winnable. If their offense did something against Blonko. And Sunday, I mean, okay, they lost eight to one and Suarez was bad I get it, he gave up gives up a fourth spot in the first inning. But they didn’t. There wasn’t much of a fight, even in that game. So for the short term, and I think this is what would buy Mike Elias some more time to figure out this market and to have some deals coming to fruition. I think, you know, it’s to me, it’s not too much to ask your offense to carry carry the load a little bit more here over the next few weeks, until this pitching figures itself out. And the pitching has been excellent. Right. Oh, by and large, it’s been excellent. Considering where they’ve been and the injuries they’ve had. Keep in mind, Kyle Bradish, eight starts all year, John means pitched four times taller wells pitched three times 15 starts between them that this team’s rapidly you know, they’re at what 77 games now? They’re almost at the halfway point. Date. They’re not where they are because of those three pitchers. Right. But where are they going to be knowing that those three guys are not there to serve as reinforcements and

Nestor J. Aparicio  42:11

to get 75 starts out of those three guys. I mean, at least you got radish

Luke Jones  42:15

with Bradish and means I mean, again, for me, well, it was always gonna be a bullpen guy, if you’re talking about your ideal scenario, which Hey, they need that too. So, but in the meantime, yeah, I think it’s I don’t think it’s too much to ask this offense that that, you know, might need to step up a little bit and look to the best offense in baseball or one of the two or three best all year. So I’m not asking them to do something they haven’t done all year. But as things are rocky and Albert Suarez, maybe he’s turning back into the proverbial pumpkin, I don’t know. We’ll see about Kade Povich you know Dean Kramer, his last rehab start was not good. But not saying that necessarily means anything. But you know, he’s going to be coming back here, we assume and what’s that going to look like? Oh, well, you’re hilarious.

Nestor J. Aparicio  43:02


He scored 17 runs on Thursday, and he scored 11 runs on Friday. So we’re 28 runs on Thursday and Friday. And on Monday morning, you beat him up? No, no, no, that’s

Luke Jones  43:12

not what I that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying as far as where they are right now. Roster wise, pitching wise, this might be a time where you you just have to lean on your offense that when you run

Nestor J. Aparicio  43:25

you’re gonna lose every night. Yeah, I mean, unless you unless you pitch a shot outright. And then they score that didn’t hit the ball in a couple of games. They’re gonna lose. You’re gonna lose

Luke Jones  43:36

and even Friday night I mean, that was they scored a bunch of runs late. And look, they showed some flight and all that. But yeah, they were they were behind what was it? 14 to three? I think it was so. And I’m not even beating them up again. This series is baseball. I’m not nearly as worked up about this series as a lot of people are. I’m just not.


Nestor J. Aparicio  43:55

Well, you can’t it’s true. We don’t get up either way. Exact same way. We can sit here do eight hours alive radio on Friday morning pronouncing them World Champions because they took exactly where you get to the Yankees.

Luke Jones  44:05

Exactly. So this weekend humbled them. It humbled them it was ugly. I’m not gonna sit here and sugarcoat

Nestor J. Aparicio  44:12

it. I was looking for Chris Davis to pitch on Friday. You know what I mean? Yeah,

Luke Jones  44:17


but I think what we need to see and what I think you’ll probably see because like I said, I’m not asking them to do anything they haven’t done all year. Maybe they do need to win a few more games seven to six over the next few weeks until they figure out this pitching piece because yeah, they need at least one starter and to me they need both to bullpen arms and one of those bullpen arms needs to be a guy that can pitch the eighth and ninth inning. You know, as I’ve said to you, I’d like to see them come out of the trade deadline with a scenario where they have two closers, basically Craig Kimbrel and someone else who’s fully capable of doing it because I still think Craig Kimbrel is limited in terms of what you really truly need in a closer pitching an arc. Tobor you know, I’d like to see a one in one a scenario, you know, which Andrew Miller, you know, a decade ago was kind of could have been that guy of Zack Britton wasn’t so great, right? I mean, Andrew Miller could have closed some games for them and, and did different things for them. So, you know, that’s my only point. And, you know, they last couple days of this series, they didn’t pitch particularly well, although it burns. You know, I didn’t think he was lousy by any means. It was just not typical burns, you know, made a couple bad pitches and, or mediocre pitches, and it cost him really, you know, more than it normally would probably. But, you know, Sunday, they didn’t pitch well. And they didn’t swing the bats on Saturday and Sunday, they got swept, turn the page, get ready to play. Hopefully, they got a good night’s rest, you know, coming back, and because you got to be ready. Cleveland’s good. I mean, Cleveland can really pitch. So my last point that I was talking about with this offense, good tests going up against a really good pitching staff in Cleveland. I mean, they’ve allowed fewer runs in the Orioles they’ve allowed fewer runs in the Yankees, you know, they’re statistically speaking the best pitching staff in the American League. So I

Nestor J. Aparicio  46:07

remember they were dealing right back in the day. Yeah, John, Mark was trying to convince me that before he got her, we’re gonna do that Cleveland’s in town a Luke and I are gonna talk some Cleveland guardians, I’m going to try not to use the I word. Our friends at the Maryland lottery have us out at Pappas in Parkville on Tuesday, I mean, it said two to five but I’m probably going to be there from like noon till six because I got guests coming out of my ears on Tuesday. We’ll be giving away the Gold Rush sevens doublers with the top prizes $10,000. We did have a $20 winner. I Coco’s two weeks ago. We also had a $20 winner at Cooper’s we were there as well. Last week had a good time to cost this Luke and I gather Jessica valus gather with us. Chris Emery from the Bay was our guest and this week you will hear Greg Hawkes of the cars also your mark Brian from Hootie and the Blowfish. They’re playing up in Hershey on Friday. So a little bit of rock and roll. We had people jumping in the harbor this weekend crazy stuff going on our friends at Liberty pure solutions keeping our water cleaner year than the Inner Harbor so I can drink it I I’m going to be checking in with some people that were jumping in the harbor. I saw them on LinkedIn my pouch on brothers from a T Rowe was one of those people. Mr. Splash was one of those I don’t know Mr. Splash but Mr. Splash was one of those people to think he has a real name sort of like Captain Chesapeake at this point. And also our friends at Jiffy Lube multi care. We’re back out on the road. We are not doing the show at Bally’s on Friday. But it’s a great place grab a crab cake and a beer and make sure you don’t sleep on a mac and cheese when you’re there as well as the shrimp salad pretty good to the new Lexington market. We’ll be back there on the 12th of July for the New York Yankees who are coming in and we hurt their feelings last week and now the Orioles have their feelings hurt at least until Cleveland gets here. He’s Luke on Nesta. We got plenty of baseball all week. Stay with us. We are wn st am 1570 Towson Baltimore and we never stop talking Baltimore positive

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