The meteoric rise of Zack Orr as Ravens defensive coordinator

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With Anthony Weaver departing for Miami and Dennard Wilson headed to Tennessee and former defensive coordinator Mike Macdonald now the head coach in Seattle, Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the promotion of former Ravens linebacker Zack Orr to defensive coordinator in Owings Mills. Lots of changes coming on the defensive side of the leadership on the staff of John Harbaugh.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

coach, mike mcdonald, gig, zach, ravens, defensive coordinator, week, head coach, weaver, played, job, year, john harbaugh, zack, talking, run, football, seattle, jim harbaugh, love

SPEAKERS

Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home we are wn S T am 5070, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive we are positively doing a really cool thing next week and we’re inviting all of you out to say lo be nice to see some folks, some old friends, bring something for our friends at the Maryland Food Bank and is going to be the coldest week of the year or you usually is week before Valentine’s Day. We used to do radio row at the Super Bowl. Now we are doing crabcake row. A cup of Super Bowl will give you a free cup of soup or bowl at families on Monday at costus on Tuesday Coco’s on Wednesday at State Fair, and I’m wearing my state fair shirt over Kingsville on Thursday and papists on Friday, we’ll be there from 9am to five doing live radio all day. If you’re really nice, I’ll sneak you on the air and you can tell me a story. But we have lots and lots of charities coming up with too many to mention. I be here all day. I’ve got over 60 I think 62 was the number I have when I went to bed on Thursday night. Charities if you have a charity, you have a community organization with a good cause. I want to give 15 minutes of airtime. I’m moving people in and out we’re gonna have a good time next week gonna be old school, nessa Baltimore positive.com reaches me well at Maryland lottery scratch offs to give away our friends at WIN donation, Jiffy Lube, multi care are with us. In all of this all of our sponsors, we would accept Leonard Raskin, he’s, he’s in wilayah doing his 30 year anniversary of everybody else is gonna be coming out next week and saying, hello. I think Dennis is coming out state fair on the west side. So we’re gonna get some folks out. Please come out. Please give the Maryland Food Bank and we did the carbon burns thing. Luke Jones and the oral ownership thing. And I don’t know where by the time you and I get together next week, who knows the cost of might be running the Orioles for all I know. Football side, and I dare I say and man, you’re you’re younger guy than me. Has there ever been a point in your life where the Oreos were more relevant than the Ravens more?

Luke Jones  01:52

I mean, just

Nestor J. Aparicio  01:54

the fact you have to think about it? Probably not.

Luke Jones  01:56

I mean, you 2014 They, you know, they they were in the ALCS. And that was a couple years removed from the Super Bowl. But your point is, it’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:05

really people watched them play last Sunday, right? Lamar Jackson and Lucy they would be going to the Superbowl right now. Wouldn’t that be something pinch me Corbin burns, new owner. Everybody’s leaving for Vegas. And I’m it’s almost a good thing we lost because I don’t know that I’d have the bandwidth for all this. But on the football side, we did lose. And the baseball sides nice and that’s coming. But football things getting a little dormant. And this is certainly the week when the would you would say the hits keep on coming. And this is exactly what we expected. We weren’t Debbie downers talking about this. We’re realist around here. You can’t be talking about the offseason in the season. Or you always have to be talking about the offseason when you’re Luke and Nestor. We knew that this was going to be a little bit of a bloodletting and we haven’t even begun with the roster yet. And that that’s down the line for you and for CAP ologists but I actually had Chad Brown on the show one of our dear friends former Steeler and he said Patrick kwena Make Petra queens go and he said What do you mean you’re gonna have to sign him I’m like, You need to look a little further into the Ravens cap ology. So this is where I bring you in and say this has nothing to do with CAP ology. This has to do with winning and doing well and having young coaches do well. And John Harbaugh has never been about bringing in young coordinators. For this reason. He groomed this guy for 10 years, and he’s gone forever now, right? Yeah, well, I

Luke Jones  03:29

mean, you just said you’re a victim of your own success when you’re very successful. Oh, season disappointment, aside from Sunday’s loss, other franchises want your people, Joe Ortiz off to the chargers to become their general manager working with Jim Harbaugh. Now, Mike McDonald, who we’ve been talking about, probably since October about this possibility. And he becomes the new head coach in Seattle, which, by the way, good landing spot for a young coach. It’s always dicey, right in terms of not knowing where you’re going. But Seattle has been one of the better organizations in football for a long time, you know, with the stability they had under Pete Carroll. So a good landing spot

Nestor J. Aparicio  04:10

from my buddy Marvin did in Cincinnati, or my buddy Jim Schwartz did in Detroit or Mike Nolan did in San Antonio, I’m thinking of my friends that got jobs. I mean, Rex at the Jets job went to the championship gaming, like Mike Patton took the Browns job that might never get hired again, because he bought in with awful ownership and Johnny Manziel. I mean, like all of these things, have their tragedies built into them. And I saw was eight coaches always names. I’m like, Who’s that guy? And we see coaching where where’s he going and all that. You never know where the next one is. But boy, McDonald, certainly, from a national punditry feels like the next whiz kid. He feels like the next Sean Payton or the next thing, thing thing that he might be there 10 years.

Luke Jones  04:54

I mean, he could be I mean, certainly the Seahawks are envisioning that and they were in a position where they were willing to wait for him the way it sounds, even if the Ravens had advanced to the Super Bowl, but you never really know. Right? I mean, way back when John Harbaugh were the Ravens hiring the the Eagles special teams coach Yeah, Jim’s brother. And look, I know there are some bitter feelings right now in frustration right now with the fan base, but it’s safe to say that’s worked out pretty well over 16 years. So people

Nestor J. Aparicio  05:26

don’t want to fire hardball. I mean, I mean, I’m not real pleased with John Harbaugh right now, you know, so pleased that he won’t want to run into me out in the city, quite frankly, he just won’t want to run into me, because he’s hiding from me, and he’s a coward. But that being said, I I mean, the fans are nuts. This one I mean, like, I go out on the Twitter and I’m like what? I said, you’re trying to educate people, but do it for 30 years. I it’s just amazing to me. How ba little fans can be when they have a Twitter pad. You just have to get in line and wait and call me and say fire the coach and I’d be like laughing your ass. Now nobody even laughs at your ask they sort of pile Yeah, you’re smart. You’re smarter. I’m like, okay, you know, but that being said, this, this tree is. I don’t say withering. I mean, because they have other young Zack will get this ak ornamin. Yeah, and get the Anthony Weaver and other alums and we love that I love Zach or you and I love him. But the losses and the thought that we can’t lose this guy will be fine. That’s what I wrote, we’ll be fine.

Luke Jones  06:31

I mean, now, I’ll say this. That’s not a guarantee either. But looking at history, looking at how the Ravens specifically talking about the defensive coordinator. Now, you know, Joe Ortiz has been running their drafts for a long time. Now, you know, I mean, Eric’s a general manager. And Joe’s been his right hand man in terms of coordinating the pre draft process and the scouts and cross checking and all those different things. I mean, he’s run that show for a while now. So that’s a loss. But as it pertains to the defensive coordinator, okay. I think Mike McDonald is a supremely talented coach, and I think he’s got a heck of a chance to become successful in Seattle. At the same time. How many times have we seen it? Not even talking ravens, people just in general, where someone’s a hotshot coach, and they land somewhere and they’re gone in a year or two? I mean, that’s the nature of the beast, right? I mean, timing is such a big part of that. It’s why I said, I think Seattle and the stability that they’ve had. And you look at what Pete Carroll did for years and years out there. You know, this is a little different situation for Mike McDonald. But, you know, this is how it works in the Ravens when when it pertains to defensive coordinators. They’ve gone this route over and over and over again. You know, going all the way back to Mike Nolan and Rex Ryan and Chuck Pagano. I mean, these are all individuals that served as a part of the staff. And, you know, in the case of Mike McDonald, okay, he left for a year. But he had been here, right, and he came back so they’re very familiar with Zack Gore, they’re very excited. They felt that they had four candidates that were viable replacements in house for Mike McDonald, Denard Wilson, who has since left to become the Tennessee Titans defensive coordinator and did a great job with the defensive backs this past year. local, local guys, you know, former Terps, so feel good for him. But you know, they had Anthony Weaver, and they had Chris Hewitt, and they had Zacher. And they felt like these were all guys that, depending on how the dominoes fell, and let’s be clear, Domino’s could still fall in terms of other guys leaving or you know, that’s just what happens with coaching in the offseason. You never have we always talked about the roster, but you never had the same coaching staff. Exactly. either. You know, you’re always gonna have a few assistants, for whatever reason, you know, not even based, not even tied to performance, but just some changes because life circumstances change. So, but I think Zack wore as young as he is, he’s 31 years old. It’s strange. I mean, I can still vividly remember you and I doing live radio shows with Zack war and all that. He’s, he’s really embraced the coaching lifestyle. I can recall when he had to retire. What was that January of 2017. I believe it was that June or July that the Ravens announced that he was going to be, you know, an intern and personnel assistant, you know, basically starting to cut his teeth transitioning to a coaching career. And I ran into him at the facility. But even that September, you know, I think it was after training camp, I just bumped into him. He’s walking through the hall and I stopped and talked to him for 20 seconds and I asked him, How are you liking this coaching life? And he said, Luke, I knew coaches worked hard, but I had no idea the hours that these guys put in, so to hear him say that which is by the way, that’s the that’s the answer that any coach you know, new coach will tell you, you know, the best ones put in. I mean, tireless work endless hours, they never see their family. But he’s embraced that and to see him climb up the ladder to go off to Jacksonville for a year and then come back because Mike McDonald wanted him on his staff and felt I know from talking to some people late in the season, Mike McDonald thought Zach Gore was ready to be a defensive coordinator. I’m guessing if Zach Gore wasn’t becoming the Ravens defensive coordinator, there’s a good chance he’d be going to Seattle and becoming the DC for Mike McDonald. So he’s highly thought of Now, like I just said, with MacDonald and Seattle, do you know for sure, do you ever know with certainty that someone is going when they get promoted? Whether you’re talking about a hotshot coordinator, becoming a head coach, or a position coach becoming a coordinator? You never know for? Sure. But I think on paper, there’s reasons to be optimistic about this. And oh, yeah, Zack will be the first to tell you that he’s still gonna have ro Quan Smith and inside linebacker even a Patrick Queens gone. He’s still gonna have Kyle Hamilton at safety, and a number and presumably just a matter BK, probably on the franchise tag, if I had to guess. So they still have a lot of great players, even if they’re going to lose some guys on the defensive side of the ball. So, you know, it’s a great opportunity for McDonald, it’s a great opportunity for Zach, or you’re gonna miss Joe Ortiz, but the Ravens have been preparing for that possibility. For years in the same way they prepared for other front office types, taking GM jobs over the years. I mean, it’s just part of the, the nature of the beast and other young coaches will now get opportunities and you see how it plays out. So it’s part of it this was going to happen, whether it was going to be this week, after an AFC championship loss, or after the Superbowl. Now, some of the details might have been different. But you’re always going to undergo some change along the way, especially when you’re successful people want people from good organizations, and the Ravens have been an excellent organ organization. So it’s tough on the heels of the bitter disappointment of the lost to the chiefs that isn’t gonna go away for quite a while. It’s why we said it our Orioles conversation, it’s nice to have a pleasant distraction in that regard. But life goes on. And now it’s on the 2024 and John Harbaugh building this coaching staff, Eric, the cost of building this roster, what was some of the changes, but also additions that will happen in the coming weeks and months?

Nestor J. Aparicio  12:30

Oh, Anthony Weaver anything you want to say in regard to him? I mean, I’ve known Weaver longer than Zach, I would imagine it was probably a really painful decision for John and it probably means he’s gonna lose the Anthony Weaver. Right. Like it. You know, it’s always right. I mean, and I don’t know what you said Weaver. Maybe going to Seattle would make that, you know, I mean, like, there’s still jobs out there. Most seats are getting filled here pretty quickly before Super Bowl week. But, you know, I thought Weaver was next in line it I don’t say shocked me, but earlier in the week, I would have thought he would have been the guy until I learned more. Yeah,

Luke Jones  13:02

I mean, it’s it’s hard to say. I mean, you never know. I mean, people have said that about Chris Hewitt, for example. Because he’s, you know, he’s been up for and he’s talked to the ravens, you know, about the defensive coordinator job, and he’s been passed over and he’s been here a lot longer than those guys. So you never really no, but yes, that’s part of whenever you have an in house promotion such as this, there is always the possibility that some some other in House candidates decide to seek an opportunity elsewhere. And look, that’s, that’s okay. You know that you understand that you respect that. So we’ll see how it plays out. But yeah, I think if you had asked me in November, about this scenario, I would have said, yeah, probably Anthony Weaver. But look, Anthony Weaver. I mean, by all accounts, he was one of the final candidates for the the Washington gig before it went to Dan Quinn. I mean, you know, he’s interviewed for DC opportunities, you know, could be Miami, I mean, again, as someone’s hearing this, these types of things change quickly, so, but that’s part of it. But look, you don’t put together a really impressive coaching staff without ideas and acknowledgments that, okay, you know, if this guy is really good, there’s a chance he could become a coordinator somewhere else, or to become a head coach somewhere else. That’s how it works. Now, you don’t want to put together a shot knew that

Nestor J. Aparicio  14:21

when he brought McDonald back here last year, right that this was a young, good looking coach, and we have ro Quan Smith and He’s our guy. We might win the Super Bowl. Like they thought that they thought they were going to win the Super Bowl five days ago. And if you win the Super Bowl, you’re going to lose them right? So it anyway, the hardball tree has become something here. We’ll see. I mean, McDonald will carry that in the same way that Josh McDaniel carried, you know, Bella checks tree and we’ll see how far that goes. But in the case of John and Zack or, Zack seem like an original and Og, right, like John met him off the boat, loved him, loved his play, loved everything about him and then more than anything, had the game taken away from him. And I Zack was one of the great stories of the last 15 years of the Ravens covering the team that he would have the game taken away because he was such I don’t need to tell you because it’s it’s not ancient history. It’s recent history. He was really good man. He was he was about to get a 60 80 million he was gonna get paid. He was gonna be a he was gonna be a made guy. He never got that contract.

Luke Jones  15:21

I mean, think about it. He came in the same year as CJ Mosley. CJ Mosley was their first round pick in 2014. Zach or was an undrafted, free agent out of North Texas. I mean, a guy that, you know, Drew drew the tiniest bit of attention in the preseason. I think he had a couple of decent preseason games. But he was one of those guys that made the 53 man roster as an undrafted, rookie. And you kind of said, Oh, okay. And he just continued getting better and got to the point where I think it was a second year, he started to get more playing time in sub packages and things of that nature. I mean, this is think about this was 14. I mean, this was CJ Mosley, Darryl Smith, when Zach Gore was a rookie. So you know, it took him a little, little bit of time. But yeah, I mean, he was a second team all Pro, it’s third year. I mean, he was on his way to getting a pretty good contract. There’s no doubt about that. I mean, he would have gotten CJ Mosley, and in New York money, maybe not, because Mosley did have a little more of a pedigree, but he was certainly on his way to getting a real contract. And, unfortunately, but I would also say Fortunately for him, considering the serious nature of the spine condition that was discovered upon him having think as a herniated disc, whatever it was that they discovered that Hey, you, your spine is you shouldn’t be playing football. And you think about an individual dealt that hand so to speak, and the different ways that can go, he could have been bitter. He could have gone the path of let’s face it, lots of former players and you hear horror stories of not even getting into CTE and things like that. Just what happened Am

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:01

I don’t know that that happens to a lot of football players, you get three, four years in a career, you’re on the cusp of getting paid, then you’re told by doctors like you’re done. You can’t play any you shouldn’t do this. Yeah, no one’s gonna clear You awful Damar Hamlins. And like Lakka. But this is a really, really, I can’t think of it. 30 years of the Ravens anything that ever happened like this. And the fact that the guy popped back up on the coaching staff, I’m like, well, that’s cute. He’ll be nice intern run around, and maybe you’ll go coach, North Texas state one, they’re behind school. You know, literally, that was the program of, hey, you love football, we’ll bring in here. I mean, a lot of these guys. I mean, I’m James trap, and Ed Reed, and they’ve been numbers and numbers of guys that have thought about coaching. And then they get in there and they’re like, Oh, this is different. And that’s why I always had such incredible respect for Jack Del Rio. And for Jim Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh, not John Jim, guys that played the game at the highest highest level, and then want to sign up to be a coach because I have yet to meet a player who didn’t understand that how much the coach is put in, and that that they don’t want to be a coach. You know, most players, they see what coaches do and like I like playing I would never want to do what you do and not for any amount of money in the world. Not Not even for CJ Mosley money what I want to have that life. It’s Oh, it’s like you and me, dude. Like being a journalist. We’re out to what we’re doing the phone rings and carbon burns. Like, you’re on the clock. You’re just not it’s a different kind of life. You know, my wife cuts her work at five o’clock. I have a different kind of life after work. Some football coaches, I don’t know anybody like it. I mean, and by the way, by the way, 30 years of doing this, and I gotta at least say two words. Marvin Lewis back with the Raiders. So when I think of my original Oh, geez. And guys, they can’t quit it shortstop for a while went back. When you are a coach and people were talking about belcheck And Pete Carroll not coaching this Schaefer. Yeah, I don’t you know, I don’t know that John Harbaugh could have a normal life if he stopped. You know what I mean? I don’t I don’t, he doesn’t have hobbies. I mean, I’ve known a guy 50 like Brian didn’t have Brian’s golfing now. I had him on twice this week. And he never golf. But he Brian’s hobby was I have a wife and two girls. They’re my hobby. You know what I mean? But there’s not a lot of room for hobbies. And when you’re a 31 year old guy who played football, played football and had it taken away from you. I mean, I wish I could talk to Zack. Well, we’ll talk to Chad Steele about that once Greg Bader is gone, but but I love Zach I throw him attacks. He’s not allowed to text me back because nobody knows Moses allowed to speak by the way Joe Ortiz did text me back and Jim Harbaugh text me back last week as well when they got gigs. So I’m maintaining friendships but Zach or if I were to speak to him and sit and talk to him, because we’ve known him from the beginning. I mean, literally, he was one of the young guys we got to know in a locker room that we liked a lot. Obviously John liked him a lot. The organization liked him a lot. There’s nobody that had his that’s at his pathway and the fact that he’s a fast comer. I didn’t realize that I, I didn’t know that until this week that he was the chosen one. I mean that I don’t know what else to say. I mean, I think we all knew McDonald could be going. I just assumed Anthony Weaver came here to sit in that seat. And then I thought about, um, like, John wasn’t here when Anthony Weaver showed up at the barn like I was, you know, back in the aughts. And I’ve known Anthony, from the beginning. I like Anthony a lot. But, you know, John’s relationships with Zack, I would think, you know what I mean, like the longer term relationship, you know, while

Luke Jones  20:34

there’s that, and I mean, it’s just, you know, what’s your aptitude for it? And that’s not to say that Anthony Weaver won’t make a great defensive coordinator or a head coach somewhere at some point in the not too distant future. But you know, you, when you’re a head coach, you have to evaluate these things you have to figure out and part of it is yes, you’re kind of putting together the puzzle pieces in terms of who’s gonna fit where, what’s my contingency plan for when this guy potentially moves on and becomes a head coach somewhere? I mean, look, I saw a few people throw it out there on Twitter. And, you know, we said the same thing about Mike McDonald. Is it that far fetched to think that Zach, or, and look, I’m not pushing John Harbaugh out the door. And this isn’t at all related to what you were talking about. It’s gone. But it could be, you know, John Harbaugh was in his early 60s, he may not coach forever, right? Is it impossible, five or six years from now that Zach Gore doesn’t become the head coach of the Baltimore Ravens in the same way that six years ago, you wouldn’t have thought he was their defensive coordinator. So you never know. I mean, it’s a great story. And again, you know, getting

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:37

ahead of our see, while CJ, she’s a mostly still play. Yeah,

Luke Jones  21:40

I mean, it is crazy. I mean, you think about this, and you mentioned a couple names of guys that have played and became coaches and including here in Baltimore, but this is the first former ravens player, former ravens player did to become one of their coordinators. I mean, that’s, it’s pretty cool when you think about it. So it’s a great story. Now, the question becomes, what are his chops like in terms of being a defensive coordinator? I mean, I think you’ve seen some of the Ravens wired segments. He’s a passionate guy he gets fired up on the on the sideline, you know, that’ll be a little bit different when you’re running the show as the coordinator compared to just being an inside linebackers coach but I think he’s highly respected I’m not gonna sit here and say that Zack or is the reason why row quad splits was an all pro inside linebacker I think row quad Smith was pretty much row quad Smith from from the moment he arrived here in Baltimore, but I think you do give Zach or some credit with where Patrick Queen how far he had come over the last couple years. I think

Nestor J. Aparicio  22:42

I’m exactly what we saw a lot himself and Patrick Yeah, right. Like Sure. That was his position. And that’s the way he played the game. And I think Patrick queen, I’d love to talk to Patrick Queen when he gets his gig elsewhere. And I’m gonna chase CJ CJ stolen radio row next week. Remember radio row? You remember? We should I do? I do. We should. So when Chad still throws me out, it’s opportunities like, oh, there, CJ, he’s gonna sit with me for half an hour. I’ll just text CJ and CJ. Oh, come on. And I’d love to hear CJs insights into Zach or I think that would be a phenomenal conversation.

Luke Jones  23:12

Yeah. So I mean, this is this is, Is it surprising from the standpoint of what you were just saying out? Yeah, I think most people would have assumed Anthony Weaver feels like he would be the the not heir apparent, but replacement to Mike McDonald if he was going to get a head coaching gig, but you know, Zach, or from 17, through 20, coaching intern, personnel assistant, defensive analyst. I know his at least his first year, I don’t know about the rest. But I know his first year or two. It was not just being exposed to becoming a coach, but also the scouting side and seeing what that looks like. So I think I’m sure analytics were a part of that in terms of those types of factors that have become more of a reality in the NFL in the modern day. So I think he was exposed to that, you know, so he had a four year internship, for lack of a better term goes off to Jacksonville for a year where he’s a bonafide assistant position coach. So and then, yeah, that doesn’t work out. Because that was what I guess that was Urban Meyer staff. Didn’t work out. Well. They’re not his fault. The right kind of mentoring there. Yeah. Yeah. So so he but he comes back. And like I said, I mean, Mike McDonald, thought very highly of Zack or I know that from just talking late and late in the season, there was some talk that Zack or even if it wasn’t the thought it was going to be here. But there was a thought that Scott is going to be a defensive coordinator somewhere. So it just so happened that John Harbaugh felt this was the right time in place for him and yeah, Anthony Weaver more experienced but keep in mind, Anthony Weaver had only come back to the Ravens as a coach in 2021. So it’s not as though he had Didn’t hear this entire time. So we’ll see how it all plays out. Like I said, there is the possibility of losing an assistant or to that, you know, when you have an in house promotion, there can sometimes be I don’t even know if it’s hurt feelings, but it’s just a reality setting in up, okay, this probably if I want to progress, this might not be the place where it’s going to happen. And then you just say you get to feel

Nestor J. Aparicio  25:23

exactly what’s going to be the defense coordinate here for two or three years. But who knows they win the Super Bowl next year,

Luke Jones  25:27

he can be. Right? You never really know. I mean, that’s, that’s just part of the gig, to your point. How as much as these guys work so hard, the hours are endless. It is a tough gig, you know, it is, you don’t go into this gig with any designs that you might be naive enough to think, oh, man, it’d be great to be here my whole career. It doesn’t work out that way. I mean, either you’re not good enough, or you’re good enough, but your head coach and your team isn’t good enough. And you all get canned. Or if you are good enough, that opportunity to progress and move up the ladder probably isn’t going to be there or you might have to wait. And, you know, we always talk about coordinators. And we’ve seen it you know, Ben Johnson in Detroit, you know, Bobby slow it in Houston. I mean, these were guys that were interviewing for Head Coach gigs and then they ultimately decide to stay and look,

Nestor J. Aparicio  26:20

I don’t they stay because they can win a championship and be be Rozier. They didn’t like the gig. Maybe they weren’t going to get the gig. And maybe what they’re really thinking is the Dallas shop will be open next year. This got the job that a job they covet. Listen, Brian Billick wanted to coach the Kansas City Chiefs or the Minnesota Vikings. And I’m not I’m not speaking like Ataturk. It just never happened for him. He didn’t want the Jets job. He didn’t want the Eagles job. He thought he didn’t want the Falcons. He didn’t. He wanted a certain kind of ownership and a certain kind of general manager because he had been paid. And without that he wasn’t going to do it. So he never did it. And he just was not going to go coach for Al Davis or Jerry Jones. You know, he there were certain people he didn’t feel like he could work for and he could pick his spots. When you’re young. You don’t get to pick your spots. But you at least get to say if you’re Ben Johnson at the moment, or slowik At the moment, I’m in a good circumstance here. I’ll be the mike McDonald next year I’ll be whatever that would be next year. I mean, Eric be enemies. A great example of a guy that like a Passover, Passover, Passover, and then wound up in a bad spot like Zach or Jacksonville for a minute with Urban Meyer. And you can get derailed like that, you know what I mean? You go someplace on the wrong place at the wrong time. And you’re no longer next to Andy Reid or your bill Bella checks. you’ve flown off the wrong Dobell check can’t get a job now. Right? Like he’s too demanding. So it is a very specified thing. And while we’re talking about that, I want to throw Joe Ortiz in here just for a minute. Because that industry is incredibly volatile. Because you get one chance, because in that industry somehow some way you you don’t get hired again, if you’re Bobby DePaul you wind up on 1057 the fan and live in an ocean city, like and I love Bobby. And Bobby never does my show because he but I love Bobby. But he’s one of those guys that had 20 years with the Redskins a decade with the bears. They go to the Super Bowl, and he can’t get a gig because like those gigs aren’t there. And he’s overqualified to just be like a regional scout or whatever, certainly from a pay standpoint. But if it doesn’t work out, you wind up where skill savages unless you’re George kookiness, and you have a landing pad, and you have friends, you know, in the business, because the that part, the talent development part and the scouting part, it’s the toughest gig in the world because Ortiz is going out to LA after all these years, he could probably always come back if the seats open, and it doesn’t work out. But like those guys don’t get second chances. The way coaches do the way Jimmy Schwartz went to Buffalo, went to Philly, got a ring, went to Tennessee advice. And now he’s a genius again with Cleveland. But he’s a failed head coach and he didn’t get he didn’t get an interview. You know, so once you, Mike Patton, like all these guys, once you get used up, it sucks. It’s a crappy industry in

Luke Jones  29:14

that way. It’s tough. It’s tough. And I’ll throw this out there though. You also have individuals that and look, I don’t begrudge Ben Johnson or slowik or it. They run the risk that they might not be as hot of a commodity next year or the year after that. Bobby slowly if CJ Stroud and up, I love the kid. He tears his ACL the second week of August. You’re not a genius anywhere the Texans next year, you know,

Nestor J. Aparicio  29:40

I mean, and I mean, it can be that pleat. So, you do weigh all the factors that you just laid out so that Ortiz never left, right. Just what took Ortiz so long. He could have had a giant job. There were five jobs he could have had. He he’s interviewed for all kinds of jobs. It’s fascinating. He took the charges job because he knows Jim right Because of that situation, but there’s a reason Eric never left, right. Like, there’s a reason because that industry is awful. Like really, really all it is.

Luke Jones  30:08

But there are also a very specific finite number of jobs. And to the point I was just trying to make, even if it’s not the best situation, it might be the only situation that manifests for you to have that job. So I had an unbelievable conversation one night at the owners meetings was me. Jim Schwartz,

Nestor J. Aparicio  30:32

Mike Tomlin and it was another coach in the in the it was where he Maurice think was now it wasn’t. I was in a conversation with these gentlemen. And and Schwartz had just taken the gig. And they and I remember Tom and said, all these jobs are good. And Ed jobs, any job and I hear His voice, you know, and shorts have taken the Oh, and 16 things like hey, man, you take the seat, you get, you know what I mean? Like, and his thought was no, won’t take much improvement. They didn’t win anything. We went five games were an improvement, you know, I mean, like, so all of those guys, and I thought, why are you taking a bad gig? And they said, they’re in a bad gigs. You know, getting a $3 million job when you’re an $800,000 coordinator, feed your family getting a $9 million contract Detroit, Oakland, pick, St. Louis, pick whatever gig you want. If you take that gig. Yeah, I don’t necessarily subscribe to working for John Angelo’s like Michael, I signed up and it worked out. It worked out, okay. Because he’s survived at the other end. But there are plenty of people that told Michael, I still take that gig. Like I’m sure there are plenty of people said, but in baseball, you can bounce back more than football. Football. You take the Browns gag and your Phil savage. You’re done. You know, kookiness is done in that way. I don’t think kookiness will be running the Cardinals or whatever. I think he’s here. Because he did it left and said, Now my family’s here, I gotta get I got a job. I like my job. I like the people I work with. I’m not moving. And there’s a lot more of that on the football side than the baseball side. But Elias is a great example of like, they’ll take that job. That guy’s crazy. They’ll take that job. You know, like, when Kevin Brown took the job as the broadcaster due to they’re going to bear he you know, like, when you work for volatile maniacs, of which there are some in ownership and sports. It’s, and that’s why the Chargers thing was interesting to me. You know, I thought that Joe Ortiz taking all this time, because he’s had all these opportunities that he is pretty convicted, that they’re gonna go out there for five years, and he’s gonna get his $10 million, and they’re gonna win something, you know? Well,

Luke Jones  32:42

Jim Harbaugh, who has done nothing but win over the last decade, wherever he’s been, you know, University of Michigan 40 Niners before that, and he’s got a franchise quarterback there. I mean, see what you want about where you want to rank Justin Herbert,

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:56

but kids good.

Luke Jones  32:58

I mean, why, I mean, he could play if you build something good around him, I, the Chargers could absolutely be duking it out for an AFC Championship at some point in the next couple of years. So you’re not going to get a better most of those gigs. And that’s why I said that the McDonald go into Seattle, that’s, that’s a little bit different. Because obviously, that was Pete Carroll. Kind of deciding, hey, you know, it’s time and the organization deciding that, but most of the time, but when you are going to one of these jobs, it’s because the previous guy got fired, which tells you that things aren’t great. That’s typically how it works. So in the case of the chargers, and look, the Chargers were bad this past year, and Staley was a disaster, but they do have things going for them. They’re I mean, look, it’s gonna be very tough for them to ever be, you know, leapfrog the Rams who are barely a thing there. I mean, because it’s just LA and you just wonder what the thirst is and how many how much attention

Nestor J. Aparicio  33:58

you can really Garner Oh, sunshine in the beach. I saw Baywatch. But, but it is a big

Luke Jones  34:02

market and they do have a bit and it is a big stadium and it can be a potentially attractive landing point. If you and Jim Harbaugh go there and bring winning, you know, bring a championship, you know, you can at least get eyeballs for 15 minutes, right, which is better than nothing. So, you know, it’s definitely interesting but happy for Joe Ortiz. Happy for Mike McDonald happy for Denard Wilson who by all accounts when you kind of look at how the Eagles played out he should have gotten that gig last year he should have been the defensive coordinator for the Eagles this past year rather than it playing out the way it did in Philly were both guys you know that previous guys that called plays for them this past year are gone so you know so but he’s gonna go to Tennessee seems like a decent spot for him. So we’ll see how the rest of the Raven stuff plays out

Nestor J. Aparicio  34:53

but like the gig right? I mean, a lot of these guys can’t even talk about guys getting tossed out free for now. work again. But like, I don’t know that he’s getting head coaching job next. I don’t know, we’ll find out.

Luke Jones  35:04

I’d be shocked if he doesn’t get a head coaching gig. But again, this goes back to the point, finite number of chairs, right until they expand until the NFL goes from 32 to 34 and puts the team in London as you’ve been predicting for years. But I live

Nestor J. Aparicio  35:19

long enough for that to have I live long enough for for Rubenstein to show up. There

Luke Jones  35:24

you go. There you go. So but yeah, I mean, it’s it’s a tough gig. There’s a lot of movement, this movement that the Ravens have experienced this week, none of it’s surprising. Okay, surprising maybe that Zach was the defensive coordinator. But the idea that the ravens are replacing Mike McDonald, not not surprising. So this is how it plays out and track record for defensive coordinators. I mean, Marvin Lewis through Mike McDonald, okay, people didn’t love Greg Madison. People didn’t love DNPS. At the end, I get it, you know, not that everyone’s been a homerun. But that’s one. That’s a setup. You know, that’s a gig that the Ravens typically have handled really well. So if John Harbaugh and Eric d’acosta in the organization deem Zack were the right guy, then who am I to doubt them on that there are other things we can question, including the offensive play calling in the AFC title game, for example. But I think as it pertains to the defensive coordinator gig, I think they have a pretty good track record there. And that’s where I’m excited to see what Zach Gore can do. And like I said, personally speaking, happy for the guy. I mean, dealt a tough hand as it pertained to his playing career, that could have gone way different for him in life in general responding to that. Instead, he said, You know what, I’m gonna become a coach. And he’s talked about it. It’s a challenge. Yeah. And he talked about the transition from player to coach, knowing it for yourself is one thing. teaching it to others is a completely different animal when he talked about that being the challenge a couple years ago when he was asked about it, but he’s embraced it. And very clearly, the Ravens have thought very highly of his development because you wouldn’t be given a 31 year old the defensive coordinator gig if he didn’t think he was going to hit it out of the park. Luke

Nestor J. Aparicio  37:07

Jones is here last thing for you. Did you enjoy that Hard Eight barbecue when we were down in Arlington, Texas for our we were there very briefly, just long enough to watch him lose and get mistreated and get the hell out of there. You know, I hate Dallas, famously everything about it. I got stuck going there, because the Orioles got stuck on that and they won the World Series. But the saving grace is we did get to see Jerry’s world. And by the way, Dan Quinn, people piss it on that down in DC, believe me, I have no commander’s affinity. Dan Quinn’s gonna be a good coach Dan Quinn’s a good really good man Salisbury state. I know Dan Quinn a little bit. I thought that was a good hire for the command really good hire for the commanders. By the way, his thing would smell a whole lot different if they just would have like, had a first down in that game with Matt Ryan, right. Like he would be a different. I mean, he just be a different guy. He got that team to where like, Dan Quinn’s gonna be a good coach. Dan Quinn was a good coach in Atlanta. So but Zach, or is from that part of Texas. He’s from the Dallas North Dallas area in North Texas, where he played. He’s the one that sent me to heart a barbecue. So whenever I go to Dallas, I took you there. So that meal you had even though I bought it and the listeners and his sponsors, courtesy of Zach or you see when you see him Let him know. You got some good barbecue in October because of him. What

Luke Jones  38:19

was it DeSoto I think is where he’s from. Right? So high school. You

Nestor J. Aparicio  38:23

know what he’s really from really close to where the star is where we went today he North Plano up north. Yeah, Frisco that area. He’s from it near that area within a couple of miles in there. So he’s a good dude. And I love that I’m bullish on that higher so I’m happy with that. All right. We’ve done a whole lot of Courbet Corbin burns, we’ve done a whole lot on David Rubenstein. I thought it was just gonna be Super Bowl week here. And as it turns out, it’s a couple of Super Bowl week. crabcake row begins on Monday at let’s start off Bally’s at Lexington market. We will be at the old market the original location they have not moved in. So that’s a note I’ll make on social media Tuesday all day long. We’re going to be Costas and Dundalk. Wednesday. We’re going to be at Coco’s pub in Lawrenceville. Thursday, we’re going to be at State Fair and where my state fair shirt and Catonsville all day long. And then on Friday at Pappas, nine until five live radio, lots and lots of local community efforts, charities, good stuff, as well as some football conversation. We’ll have some baseball conversation, but we’re going to do some good work. And we’re gonna give you a free cup of soup or bowl if you come by and bring something from the Maryland food bank so promoting charities all week raising food specifically for local pantries. And at 440. Everyday Luke, the Maryland Food Bank is sending over a local pantry to come on the air and tell us how this food that we’ve gathered during the day is going to stay in Dundalk on Tuesday downtown on Monday and Cockeysville on Friday. So we’re real proud of this effort. It’s the first time we’ve done it. I shouldn’t say it’s by choice but by necessity, but they’ll be doing what they’re doing. went out in Las Vegas with Pat and you know the the the new regime out there in San Francisco and Brock Purdy and well you know well being Catonsville eat and crabcakes and serving free crab soup. I am Nestor we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore. And we never stop talking Baltimore positive comm gets a free lottery tickets to

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