When the owners of Birdland ask Orioles fans for the next round of funding after a season like this…

When you invite three busy friends and guests onto the Maryland Crab Cake Tour at Costas Inn in Timonium and they all converge simultaneously, you host a candid, spontaneous chat about the realities of a Birdland Insider membership and being a modern Baltimore Orioles customer, fan and an ATM for ownership no matter what happens – on or off the field. A sports editor, a roofer and a duct sucker all walk into a bar with a guy from Dundalk…

Nestor Aparicio hosted a roundtable discussion with Howard Scher, Bill Cole, and Chris Korman about the Orioles’ fan engagement and financial challenges. They discussed the team’s poor performance, lack of fan excitement, and the impact of ownership changes. Howard highlighted the critical offseason for the franchise’s future, while Chris emphasized the need for the team to spend money to attract fans. Nestor criticized the team’s treatment of media and fans, noting the deterioration of fan experience over the years. They also touched on the broader issues facing baseball, including competition from other sports and the potential impact of a work stoppage.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Improve communication and transparency with fans to rebuild trust and demonstrate a commitment to winning.
• [ ] Assess the Orioles’ ticket pricing and package offerings compared to other markets to ensure competitiveness and value for fans.
• [ ] Explore ways to create more excitement and engagement for fans, especially younger demographics, such as improving the in-game experience and creating more interactive elements.
• [ ] Extend the contract of pitcher Trevor Rogers to show investment in the team’s future.

Nestor Aparicio Introduces Participants and Sets the Stage

• Nestor Aparicio introduces Howard Scher, Bill Cole, and Chris Korman, mentioning their long-standing relationships and roles in the discussion.
• Nestor shares a personal anecdote about meeting Howard at Skipjacks games in 1984 and 1985.
• Howard Scher is described as a doctor and a big-time sports fan who owned stock.
• Nestor humorously mentions Howard’s role as the first Oriole reporter in 1992-93 and their shared history in journalism.

Discussion on Orioles’ Current State and Fan Engagement

• Nestor and Howard discuss the Orioles’ current state, mentioning the team’s poor performance and lack of fan engagement.
• Nestor expresses frustration over the team’s inability to attract fans and the poor PR decisions, such as giving a large contract to a player early in his career.
• Bill Cole and Nestor debate the effectiveness of historical player promotions like giving away Palmer and Ripken jerseys.
• Nestor criticizes the team’s lack of effort to engage with fans and improve the stadium experience.

Evaluation of Team Management and Ownership

• Howard Scher and Nestor discuss the impact of new ownership and management on the team’s performance and fan engagement.
• Howard mentions the critical off-season for the team’s future and the importance of the owner’s commitment to winning.
• Chris Korman highlights the team’s bad luck with pitching and the slow progress of the rebuilding process.
• Nestor and Chris discuss the need for the team to spend money to attract fans and create excitement.

Fan Experience and Ticket Sales

• Nestor shares his personal experience with the team’s poor treatment of media and fans, including being excluded from press conferences.
• Howard and Nestor discuss the challenges of selling tickets and the team’s failure to capitalize on fan interest.
• Bill Cole brings up the success of other local events, like the Baltimore Bananas, and the competition for fan dollars.
• Nestor and Howard discuss the importance of providing a good fan experience and the impact of poor treatment on fan loyalty.

Future of Baseball and Competition with Other Sports

• Nestor expresses concern about the future of baseball and its ability to compete with other sports like football.
• Howard and Bill discuss the impact of the NFL’s dominance and the challenges faced by baseball in attracting and retaining fans.
• Chris Korman emphasizes the need for the team to be good consistently to create demand and attract fans.
• Nestor and Howard discuss the importance of the team’s performance and the need for a strong revenue model to sustain the team.

Personal Reflections and Final Thoughts

• Nestor shares his personal investment in the team and his frustration with the team’s management and ownership.
• Howard and Nestor discuss the importance of treating fans well and providing a good experience to encourage fan loyalty.
• Bill Cole and Nestor discuss the challenges of selling tickets and the need for the team to find new ways to engage fans.
• Nestor concludes by expressing his love for baseball and his hope for the team’s future, despite the current challenges.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Orioles fans, Rubenstein money, ticket sales, baseball strategy, fan engagement, team performance, ownership reputation, pitching issues, fan experience, stadium attendance, revenue model, sports marketing, fan loyalty, Baltimore sports.

SPEAKERS

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Nestor Aparicio, Bill Cole, Chris Korman, Howard Scher

Nestor Aparicio  00:00

Howard share is going to sit in. I got people. John eisberg coming by. We’re going to get how you want in. Man, I mean, I’ll bring you in right here. Come on over. Man. Howard Sharon, let me say who Howard is. Howard and I met at Skipjacks games when I was a reporter back in 1984 and 85 and you couldn’t see the game. So good for the press box in the old arena, and they serve the death dogs up there. How pull that chair over here? Sit next to Billy here. I’m just gonna jump out of the way. You’re staying in here. You’re not going anywhere. So, so Howard and I met. How is it? A big time sports fan? He owned stock. Doctor, tell everybody what, you suck docs for a living, right? Yeah, I gotta, I gotta get your headset going here. There you go. You good? Now that it’s fallen I shouldn’t have had you do that. It’s gonna fall apart. That’s fine. It’s the broken one. Yeah, pretend your

Howard Scher  00:47

head if you start seeing blood coming outside. Right, right. Thanks.

Nestor Aparicio  00:50

It’s not my feeling around the corner. So how he was like my friend, my DJ partner, how he was the first Oriole reporter in 1992 9394 when I started my career because he knew a lot about the Orioles. He’s gone off and gotten smart away from journalism, not like us, and you left journalism when you left me. But the baseball thing for all of us, where, where are we on this? Do we have any level of I had somebody really knows baseball on Sunday, gets me a Coco’s, and I’ll be there on Wednesday. And he looked at me after even the bus IO deal, and its first words to me were, they don’t know what they’re doing. Do they like and I’m like, Well, you know, PR wise, they gave his kid a lot of monies, you know, nine days into big leagues, get a nine year contract or whatever. I’m just blown away by how bad it was. Where, like, Luke is, like, they didn’t have an international program. I’m like, well, the owner was a xenophobe, pretty to ask around, so they signed this guy and even giving him the money. We’re like, well, you know, hope it’s not Kobe man. I hope it’s not another ruchman. And I don’t know what they can do to get people excited, but the bananas got people excited, more excited than Adam Jones. I mean, they give away a Palmer Jersey, and there’s five runs up in the first inning. Jim Palmer, I think ever did that in his career, get five in the first inning, and on Palmer Jersey night, they seen now they’re going to do the Ripken thing with his kid and run him around with Geico and have true life moments. I don’t they have to sell tickets and they have to get good, right? I mean, we’re all in agreement with that, right? Yeah, so professional.

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Bill Cole  02:24

I think those two are not connected, by the way, in what way? Well, maybe if you’re good for a long period of time, it correlates to ticket sales. But, I mean, they were good and they didn’t sell that many more tickets, right? Like, people still didn’t come rushing back. Well, that’s the point, I mean, and they were good, and they were fun, good, not just like old player, free agent, good. They were like, young guys last like, just

Nestor Aparicio  02:53

really, and not only not really capitalized on any of that, this part where the banner has forced into my old role before they threw me out, which is being the bitch department, you know, the complaint department, like literally Kyle goon did a week of talking to doing what the oral should be doing, talking to their angry angriest, closest fans, to say, You’re pulling my seat. Your 13 gaming me you’re like your journalism on this Bal is not allowed to take those phone calls. The fan sends Katie Griggs out to meet Ed Norris, who’s never bought a ticket in his life, isn’t even really a fan, and I still sit here owning this radio station with the audience that I have with no pay wall, cheap shot in corner, but but like wondering what becomes of all of this when they can’t figure their own way out, and Cal Ripken and Jim Palmer and Brooks Robinson and Boo Powell aren’t digging them out Adam Jones, they’re not digging them out like they’re going to have to go have a good product and be good at everything in order to get the kind of money that they really want to get from people in this market.

Howard Scher  04:01

I think it’s a work in progress. And I think you and I talked about it the last time I was here, I think Rubenstein stepped in, and I think he he said all the right things about wanting to win and investing in winning and things like that. But I think it was a process. And I’m not sold. Elias isn’t the guy a lot of people are, but I think he was sort of him, and Rubenstein had a plan, and the plan was to, let’s see if we can build it this way, plug in some holes till the next wave, to join these guys and see where we are. And I’m not sure it’s going to sell tickets, but I think this off season is very critical to the future of the franchise, and specifically Elias job and Rubenstein’s ownership reputation and and so I think it’s a little too soon to judge Rubenstein yet. And I think he is, I think he’s the he’s obviously the pulse behind what Elias does. I don’t think Elias completely has free reign, like everybody would like to believe and, and I think he’s done a great. Job in building the overall system, right? So it’s just a matter of, you know, filling in the bad luck

Nestor Aparicio  05:07

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with pitching. I mean, all the arms

Chris Korman  05:09

fall terrible look, terrible luck with pitching. And I think the process is hard to follow. It’s it got a little hard, you know, it’s been so slow, right? And they asked fans to basically wait five years, and then Adley shows up, and then gunner and gunners, great. Jackson comes up a little early. He’s only 20 years old. He struggles a little bit, you know, you just lose the thread a little bit. You’re excited, but it’s hard to follow, right? 162 games these kids are learning.

Nestor Aparicio  05:34

Last place buried.

Chris Korman  05:37

But Trevor Rogers, you know, last year was horrific. Was very bad earlier this year, and now is one of the best stories in baseball. But like, you have to still be paying attention to know that. And people really haven’t like they’ve sort of tuned out. I really think they need to sign like, they need to spend money this offseason just to get like, fans just want to know, like, we went out and did a thing. We’re leading SportsCenter because we signed the guy, and like, Elias is fundamentally against that, because that money is generally not well spent money, right? You are when you are giving out free agent money, like you’re not getting value, right? And Mike Elias lives for value. He is always looking for value. But fans want excitement. Fans just want like, we’re going for it. And I don’t know, even though this process has built an incredible foundation and has great players, they don’t, they’re not sure that those players are going to stay. They don’t know, like, can I buy a gunner Henderson jersey and wear it in six years? They don’t know three years,

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Nestor Aparicio  06:35

like, a buy a Messiah when now, but he might be hitting two for it, right?

Chris Korman  06:39

Sorry, yeah. So I think there’s something they just need the energy, you know, they need to do something to sort of pump that up.

Howard Scher  06:45

I actually think the biggest thing they could do right now is extend Trevor Rogers. I think it would show they’re huge, yeah, show their investment in pitching he’s here next year as it is anyway, right? You know. And there is a risk that he could go back to what he was last year. But they knew, you know, everybody was so quick to jump on him early in the year when Kyle Stowers was or two months ago when he was exploding, an all star. Yeah, he was an all star. And everybody was so down on that trade. But guess what did you I don’t know if you guys saw the numbers the other day, but by war, Trevor Rogers, war is higher than Stowers.

Bill Cole  07:23

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Do you think that the people who would get excited about extending Trevor Rogers are already coming to the stadium?

Howard Scher  07:29

That’s good boy.

Nestor Aparicio  07:31

Here’s where we are. Let’s be really honest. Philadelphia guy, but banner sports editor, Bill calls here. Cole roofing, Howard share, own stock. Doctor, myself, I own W, N, S T, My last name’s Aparicio. I’m a little invested. I know you through skipjack games for 41 years. I’ve known you 30 years. You go with games. Sometimes you’re a corporate guy. You like sports enough. You like people enough. You like people who like baseball. You have a bunch of people who would be into going if you had a box or this or that for a day or a week or 13 games. I don’t give them any money because they’ve treated me like garb. These new people have been beyond arrogant, holding the old grudge. So and the journalist, pardon me, sort of like but I would have loved for them to come in, invited me to the press conference a year ago. Win last year, won this year. I would be the guy giving them six 800 bucks in little bird land, just so I could experience what the fans are experiencing. But I feel like they need to earn that money. For me. They need to earn my they already get my time and they get my cable television. That’s all I owe them at this point as a journalist. When they don’t, they let my white employee in adult let me in, so when they have me drinking out of the back water fountain, I’m not down with that, but that’s me being a jerk, and me being the jerk on the radio talks about not giving money. I can’t speak to why you. Leonard Raskin, all my clients, like curio wellness has seats there and Wendy and her boy like baseball, but like just the people I know in my world who could afford to give them 500 or 1000 bucks. I know one guy, a buddy of mine. I would be drinking with him at the bar here on Friday that they ponied up a couple of grand. And bird landed this year, and they still have all the money on the account. They didn’t use the tickets. And guess what? They’re not doing. They finally came back because Angelo’s didn’t own the team, and they gave just a little bit of money, whatever the Birdland thing is, and now they’re like, I’m done. So even the people that like, got in and got in or and gave him a grand or two. Were you that guy?

Howard Scher  09:23

Yeah, I’ve done the bird lab, the Flex Plan, where you just put the money basically in it. That’s my dude, yeah, and they actually didn’t change that at all for next year. So that is okay. I mean, I wasn’t one of those people. You’re not disgruntled. I’m not disgruntled. Okay, good. But I will tell you, this is the first year that I have a considerable amount of money sitting in my account, and some of its scheduling, some of its life’s gotten in the way. I used to use it to take clients, employees and things like that. It’s not even that. I mean, I think it’s a way to entertain people, but I think life gets in the way sometimes. So I think there’s a factor there, and that money stays till next. Year, no, bye. It’s gone. What? Dude?

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Nestor Aparicio  10:04

Katie,

Bill Cole  10:06

wt, oh, my goodness. So yeah,

Nestor Aparicio  10:10

come on, come on. Dude, that’s not fair, dude. Dude, you’re gonna take

Bill Cole  10:15

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the optionality and flexibility that the program provides is pretty cool. Yes, I agree. Historically, you bought tickets, you didn’t use them, you didn’t get your money back.

Nestor Aparicio  10:24

How much money you got? Don’t lie to me. Howard you? At least he got flexible. I bought you crab cake.

Howard Scher  10:28

I think it was 1500 this year, and I probably have close to 1000

Chris Korman  10:32

left. But I feel like you can see the Red Sox tonight, if you want, right?

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Howard Scher  10:36

I mean, I thought about trying to get

Nestor Aparicio  10:40

and give me a match.

Howard Scher  10:44

I want to use it, and I have a month to do it. I thought about going Saturday for if any other

Nestor Aparicio  10:49

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business dog, do you want 1000 bucks? Would you go back and buy a new color?

Howard Scher  10:53

It’s the same thing. Like Bill said, if you buy season tickets, you don’t go. You’re screwed. If you buy concert tickets. And I got my

Nestor Aparicio  10:59

feelings hurt that they suck. You’re like in Justin, you’re in you’re in for money. I don’t know, man, you’re but you’re a light. You they could do anything. They don’t need to be accountable. They could fire them come back Tuesday. You’re not going anywhere if you’re burning a grant in the last place year. And they’re gonna, you’re gonna, they’re gonna come back and ask for more money in October because they want to have for the holidays. You’re gonna give them more money. It’s

Howard Scher  11:24

actually doing, like, two weeks, I think, or three weeks. But, yeah, I know I

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Nestor Aparicio  11:28

got a hotel in the Caribbean. If I cancel it, they stole my 1000 bucks. I’d be like, I ain’t staying at Secrets. What

Howard Scher  11:34

happens if you and Jen buy concert tickets and you both come down with the flu? I sell them on stub Hall. If you, if you can find a taker, if not, you’re out right, I could buy those tickets. I could download them and resell them. Well, I

Nestor Aparicio  11:46

could be pissed at Mick Jagger for canceling on me when I find it.

Bill Cole  11:49

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Here’s Vegas. Here’s the part, here’s the part that I want to throw because we’re not getting anywhere on this. So last Thursday, I know here I’m gonna blow your mind. Ready? Last Thursday, Nate bargazi was at cfg, uh huh, and I was there the Oriole game. Same time, right? We were betting on who was going to have higher attendance. Now I’m pretty sure the Orioles won, because Houston travels good. That’s at least, that’s what I was told. So we believe there were more tickets sold for that, but CFG was sold out. So this

Nestor Aparicio  12:21

old a much higher price point, probably this

Bill Cole  12:25

old story about no one wants to come downtown, which is why all of the places suffer that that is changing, right, like CFG is winning, that they have proof that if you bring good acts in and you get, you get what people want to see, they will come fill that arena. So how that converts to the to the or, I mean, the problem, how about the bananas truer? There you go. Another great example, right, right? But that’s But, see, the Orioles, what are they supposed to do about that? Right? The Orioles didn’t make up the fact that there’s 81 home games, right? Like, I’m not going to see Nate 81 times. I’m not going to see the bananas 81 times. There’s a novel, fans, there’s a novelty,

Nestor Aparicio  13:04

and Chris, I’ll bring like, I love Howard. But like, dude, if you have one bad cheeseburger here at Costas, you might never come back. Like, this has been 42 years of mostly really lousy cheeseburgers. And like, the one time you put your money in, to my point, of my buddies, you put their money in. They’re like, Man, I waited 30 years for Angelos to die just to give them two grand, thinking like I do. And now I don’t want to Billy. Don’t want to go. They’ve invited me. I’m like, I don’t want to go. I mean, you invited me. Alan invited me the other night. I had to say, I’m sorry, I’m not going. But, like, you got 1000 but let’s go down there and eat some food. Let’s go eat some Ackman or something. Let’s go. I mean,

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Howard Scher  13:42

I’m a sports fan. I love sports. I watched the caps through all the terrible years. We sat at skipjack games, right when they were always 16, right that year, and we went every night. That’s

Bill Cole  13:53

okay. We didn’t know what hockey was,

Nestor Aparicio  13:56

right? I mean, I watched for punishment. You’re my friend, after all. Yeah, right, exactly.

Howard Scher  14:04

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Jump off the grand. It’s, you know, I’m just a sports fan. I’m gonna watch. I’m gonna go, they’re my team. They’re my hometown team. The caps are questionable because DC is not my hometown but they’re the closest hockey team to us. I watched when they’re bad. Am I worried what’s gonna happen when ovechkins gone? How bad they could be, yeah. I mean, I don’t think they will be, but they could be, and I’m still gonna watch hockey. It’s just

Bill Cole  14:25

what I do. I went to a mystics game last weekend, and how was that drove all the way down to have their own arena,

Nestor Aparicio  14:33

right? Yeah. Towson, it was a blast. We had a blast.

Bill Cole  14:37

I mean, the drive was a little rough for me, but, I mean, they score almost in the hundreds, like you’re picking up, you know, who the girls are, like, it’s, it was fun. It was easy to get in, easy get out. Like, track was a little tough. But, you know, I mean, it was, and again, that’s dollars that the Orioles would have got. Like, I. Didn’t go to the Oriole game. I drove an hour and a half to outside of DC.

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Nestor Aparicio  15:04

Are on last week, the mayor Frederick, Michael O’Connor, they’ve got the keys coming back in, right? I mean, the Ripken losing, the Aberdeen thing, and just how much money there is for sports. I mean, like, I don’t ever talk Terps around here, and they’re starting this week too, right? And, but the ravens and the Orioles, and just from the banners perspective, and from being a sports the amount of clicks, the amount of interest, the amount of everything they say, lacrosse is big here, trying to get some clicks on it. Go ahead. But the passion for football and baseball is sort of insatiable to the point where the baseball team could do anything to you, including absconding 1000 your dollars within last place, and you’re just going to get gonna give them more money

Chris Korman  15:44

next. But it’s not insatiable enough to fill the stadium, right? Like that’s the stadium is never full. So that’s that’s the issue. They need more reviewers. They’re sucking manage. They’re sucking money out of the people who are committed to going without, trying to build new Yeah, but what

Bill Cole  15:59

was, what made it a sellout for a decade. In

Howard Scher  16:03

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the 90s, yeah, like, what?

Nestor Aparicio  16:04

Well, there was no ravens, DC, not novelty, sky boxes, the beauty of the stadium. Cal Ripken, the Yankees played here 12 times. You know? The Red Sox played here 12 times. Tourism money was the first thing. It was the first thing the harbor was cleaned up. Harbor.

Bill Cole  16:19

There were no there was the Ravens. There were no ravens,

Howard Scher  16:22

correct? So that’s it. And I also think there’s the the competition level. I think you brought up the Terps football starting this weekend, people don’t go to Maryland football games, which is sad, because it’s the biggest college football program in the area. Maybe that’s some some has something to do with it, but everybody knows Maryland’s not going to compete for a national championship, likely because of the landscape of college football.

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Chris Korman  16:48

And I think budget is 1/5 of Penn State’s rice is not even a fair fight, no.

Howard Scher  16:52

And I think it’s kind of like the Yankees in the Orioles. That’s my point. I think the Orioles are in a similar situation. I think fans get excited when they’re good, but I think it’s hard to get people out there consistently when you see, you know, the Dodgers who are coming in this weekend, you know, with a $300 million plus payroll, and the Orioles are hovering around 120

Nestor Aparicio  17:14

but, you know, my wife says, I want to see show a play, right? I want to see the bananas. I want to see the Nanners. You know, I don’t know what the Orioles can do to make their thing a bigger deal. They can market better. You know what they can really do? Be nice that when he puts a story together about Brian Mattis, that’s all true, but don’t, don’t, don’t be down on his beat. Reporters are trying to sell tickets. Luke’s out there trying to help them sell tickets. I’m trying to help them sell tickets right now by being honest with them, being the last person that’s not kissing their ass for press credential to tell them what they want to hear, which is, by screwing you out of $1,000 they’re really encouraging him to buy him next year, or my friends to buy him again next year, or for me to go on the radio and say, Oh, what a good deal. Oh, what a great deal it is. I don’t, because I can’t do that, because I’ve witnessed this. I’ve witnessed the deterioration of this over 40 years. And I guess if my 27th anniversary owning this thing, if I was ever right about anything. And I remember this back when you were my baseball report, before the Ravens were even here, we had the first baseball strike in 94 and I always felt like in reading Lords of the Realm and researching that, when Peter came into baseball and didn’t really know anything, took the player side in that debate, right? I looked at it and I would say on the radio, Where is this headed? If baseball, this is when the Padres were having fire sales. Before the Marlins existed, they were having a fire sale and winning World Series, right? That all happened to five years in the 90s that the sport was so broken that I’m like the you know, the Adam and Eve thing here is the fact that, if they’re not careful, the NFL is just going to take over the national pastime, because they have parity with salaries, and they have television, and they’re smart and they’re unscrupulous, and they only play once a week, and they own Thanksgiving. And before you know it, they’re going to own Rosh Hashanah. They’re going to own they’re going to Yom Kippur. They’re going to own Christmas. They’re going to own New Year’s. They’re going to own Halloween. They own every holiday. They own pink day. They own breast cancer. They own testicular cancer. They own the draft. They own the schedule night. So much that the President shut down their email, because that’s how much they care about the schedule. Now they own Jimmy’s tailgate, tail goat. They own everything in their place because they have a competitive sport where, when Lamar Jackson can play, we don’t have to wonder what. We wonder what gunner Henderson, which is, is he going to be a Dodger or a Yankee? Right? So 30 years into this, baseball’s fighting. The most uphill battle of all is that the NFL is now placed, and it’s a fair fight well, and because we sit here and talk about it, it’s not a fair

Howard Scher  19:49

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fight. One thing we didn’t even mention in the 90s, the Orioles had one of the higher payrolls in baseball as well. So I think fans want to see that commitment to spending the money. And you’re right about that. Baseball has done this to themselves in more ways than one. And I think we can all have our opinions here in Little old Baltimore, but it’d be very interesting to sit down with a fan in Detroit, in Cleveland, in, you know, Kansas City, and see what they’re paying, what those things are, because I think that’s truly probably where the bar should be, or the barometer, and, you know, we’re gonna Baltimoreans get angry about everything, pretty much. It’s same as our friends in Philadelphia, you know? And it’s just, it’s a different animal because of the market size, but I think that’s what we truly have to compare to. And you know what? I don’t know what the answer is. If the Orioles ticket prices are below half those other cities, then it’s hard to argue with what they’re

Bill Cole  20:41

doing. I’m a data guy. I want to know how much disposable income is available in the marketplace to the groups that we expect to fill that stadium. Look at all of the different things that are competing for that dollar. It’s a significantly different landscape than it was in 94 right? The number of other things that people are paying for buying Well, the Nationals exist to just go ahead and go straight to, like, streaming and TV and that experience and like, there’s a there’s so many things,

Chris Korman  21:16

so much more on youth sports now, yes, much more time. It’s like,

Nestor Aparicio  21:19

that’s his life. That’s your life, literally, right? If you have a child that that does, and it might be a lacrosse stick in this town, not a baseball bat, or it might be a soccer ball, that could be a lot of different things than it was 30 years ago. That’s why them eating off of your kindness, your generosity, right? Your I don’t know. I could come up with nice words and ugly words. For which one do you want? Gullible, committed, loyal. What word do you want? But it’s all game above. Go

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Howard Scher  21:47

pull people in 30 other cities and see if they keep the money and do the same thing. And maybe the Orioles are just following. Yeah.

Nestor Aparicio  21:55

Well, they say they’re doing that’s not okay here. So

Bill Cole  21:57

limited audience, I don’t have an issue with them keeping your $1,000 it’s a use it or lose it kind of deal. I agree. You’ve got more flexibility than you ever had. So that one doesn’t bother me. How about you do this? I do think the idea of understanding

Nestor Aparicio  22:15

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how I want to be your nagging wife, how this is spy as we go, do we really need to give them? What do we what do we really sure that’s what that’s what’s that’s what’s gonna happen? Yes, right? So now, of a sudden, they get your money. I

Howard Scher  22:27

mean, the tickets are a little bit cheaper when you buy them through the plan. I don’t know what the discount is exactly. It might be up to 20% I was disappointed they took away the food discount, because you used to get a discount on food. So when you entertain clients, it was easy just to whip out the card and you felt or use your phone to pay, because that’s how you got the discount. But yeah, I mean, there is little benefit when it comes to that, but sure, I’ve considered just paying as I go next year. But what happens if they start drawing 40,000 people again because they have a new state scoreboard and they have a nice sound system, people want to check it out, then it’s just like what they’ve done with opening day and that’s something that bothers me, yeah, and that’s a personal thing for me. Is when I bought into this plan, I got dibs on opening day tickets. And do I still get dibs on opening day tickets? Sure, but I’m like, fifth on the food chain, and this year, full price at 120

Bill Cole  23:16

bucks, that was the only time they got me. Was I wanted playoff tickets, right? So I had to buy the next year’s season ticket plan to get a playoff game. That’s the only time I did it,

Nestor Aparicio  23:25

right. And tickets were available for 15 bucks on game night. Nobody went, Yeah, a year and a half ago. And when I went to the owner, the only thing I ever said to the owner was, Mr. Rubenstein, there’s been a lot of trauma here, and everything we’ve just talked about trauma, and Katie Griggs is going to have problem with that last thing, Chris Corman’s here. Bill Cole Howard, Bill, he’s got to get out of here, because I’ve already broken my curfew with him. I feel like Skinner when they play very always do curfew free. Bird, the last thing on the business side, with Katie Griggs and running the team, and I think for baseball in a general sense, the entire perception they’re going out of business next year again, there’s going to be another strike, right? So at the bottom of we don’t need to talk about the Ravens. Other than Justin Tucker, they’re fine. They got money. They’re going to win the Super Bowl that. But the baseball thing, the sport itself, and where Manfred is going with realignment, fighting with the union, having Rubenstein be stupid enough to say, like, we’re going to break the union. Basically, we need to get cost certainty and all that. Like, dude, you don’t even know where you’re coming from. I’ve been doing this 35 years. You’re not breaking the base. Breaking the baseball union. Ask Bryce Harper, you know, go ask Scherzer. They’ll tell you. But I would say for Katie Griggs inheriting this, and the business side of this, and the trust and the money and all of that that they go into. Mr. Big pants, put a billion aid up on this, and there’s a ton of debt, there’s a ton of response. I mean, how much money are you going to lose in an empty stadium, in a new investment where you went large in this guy’s a numbers guy. And the biggest thing is work stoppage, work uncertainty, labor uncertainty. But more than that, revenue uncertainty that we’ve all looked at these sports and this. Said that they just keep growing money. The NFL will grow money. They’re gonna go into Europe. They’re gonna they’re gonna add an 18th game. They’re gonna do all these things. Right? We know where that revenue is coming from. Where’s that revenue coming from? Baseball, which Katie got up her sleeve? What are the other 29 and right? Who are the smart people in the room in baseball? I don’t know them. I don’t see them. I don’t see ideas. The bananas are the smartest guys in the room. They figured how to monetize this and to create some sort of brand that isn’t Yankees Tigers show a Adley rutschman, whatever you think your brand is, but getting people’s television money, and this is where them being pricks, and they are like, just the fact that they’re holding your money, the fact that they’re holding me out the fact that they they’ve operated in the way they operated when it comes time to set the cable bill, to figure out whether your household, once you cut your cable, what you’re going to be willing to pay mass and Ted Leone’s this Rob, whoever it is, Fox Sinclair’s up the street here. He, he went broke doing this right? The revenue model in baseball is going to be the most important thing of all of this, the National revenue model, because they don’t know what they’re doing. They really don’t have a plan. I have to tell you, it’s funny when they say to you, it’s 699 a year just to have the games on your television set. And that’s a great deal. It’s $5 a game. Yeah, you know what? It’s a great deal. What’s what’s Luke’s mother? I always say this to Luke, Luke, your mother’s in Pennsylvania. She likes the Orioles and the games. She’s getting older, and she’ll want to watch the games. What’s the price point for her 199 a year. 99 a year, three, night, what’s and then, okay, 299, a year, and you get a shirt, or you get a hockey puck, or you get a t shirt, or you get a ball, or you get a free Junior, or, like, they’re gonna have to package this thing to get subscribers in the same way we do the Baltimore banner does, in the same way that ESPN does. And to say, like, this subscription model for baseball, no bueno, dude, because it’s gonna be you and about 10 of your friends. They’re willing because he won’t buy it because he doesn’t care enough. I care enough. I know him well. He thinks he loves the Orioles. But if he had a 249 $399 year to baseball games on it, his wife don’t care about his daughter don’t care about that, he’s not watching on the app. When the app works, sometimes, you know the Eastern Shore, where you can’t even get Wi Fi to make the app work. Like I’m gravely concerned. He’s

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Howard Scher  27:22

got revenues transistor radio, but that’s besides the point. I think that it’s going to be trial and error with baseball. I think, just like it’s been with some of the other sports, and I think the NFL obviously is a different animal, but I think it’s going to be trial and error to see what people pay for and go backwards. But it leads back to something we talked about, Mike Elias being a key off season. I said, if I’m David Rubenstein, I’m a little worried about investing in a three year contract with somebody, where I might lose a year that money. So you know, you’re 24 million, you already lost a year in O’Neill, right? Well, that’s true, but your 24 million might be for two years rather than three years, if that’s the case, and that’s something a lot of teams are going to have

Bill Cole  28:03

to Yeah, I think it’s all about the gambling. And we don’t actually know what that looks like right there, sure, because if they, if they get to regulators, and there’s some story where you can only bet on baseball if you’re in the stadium, right? Or you buy the app to watch it on TV, and then you’re betting on pitch, strikes and balls. And you mean, it’s, it’s a very, now, all of a sudden, super interactive sport, like, that’s where baseball really does actually shine with your gamblers. Is, like, bet on everything, if you it’s, it has that, like, super intricate, right? One thing at a time that you can bet

Nestor Aparicio  28:45

on the horses. Sure, I do know one thing, LASIK aside, drugs aside, you know, shocking the horses doing all the awful shit that they’ve done that these poor animals, that there’s a finish line and there’s a winner, and there’s a picture of it, usually, and sometimes even that gets disputed at Kentucky Derby from time to time. But like, when you start to adjudicate bets on what is a guy in a suit does and says, That’s pass interference, and that’s not, you have completely lost the entire act of the Maryland lottery in gaming, which is this is on the up and up that there’s no fixing on this. There’s no human that’s affecting whether this ticket wins of game of random chance. Well, that sports is a different game that

Bill Cole  29:24

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doesn’t distract detract from the gambling. You just got to know which way to be on that right. Like I hear what you’re saying, like when a guy makes a pass inference call or doesn’t, I’m

Nestor Aparicio  29:35

talking about the federal government investigating Hokey Pokey Sure, which is already going on, literally right to the top of show, hey, OTAN is bookie might have been him, right, right? Never convinced me anything otherwise. No, what’s gonna say baseball? First of all, to get out of here. It’s last thing, because we talked about this safe in Philly, in your hometown.

Chris Korman  29:53

I mean, I think being good is, is the best thing in sports, right? Like you, you have to be good for a while. And create demand. Like, that’s, that’s the number one thing. I think there’s certainly things that the Orioles could do, and everybody wrote this story, right? Like, what can the Orioles learn from the savannah bananas? Like, there’s a lot more they should do to make it fun for kids. You know, like, we have one kid area, and you can get in free if you sit way up in the top stands. Like, that’s that’s not enough. There needs to be more that makes it an event. You need to feel like, no matter what, if you’re there. I mean, baseball is not the main draw anymore, right? Like it is. It is for some it is for some of the fans who are paying now, but those empty seats, like, obviously people are looking for something else.

Nestor Aparicio  30:35

Well, then, you know, what? If you can’t suck people into the soap opera, if your best hope is to get little Johnny and little Jill down and have him run the bases and then go home and get a lacrosse stick or play soccer or go to the movies or play their video games. They’re freaking doomed. I mean, baseball is an all in goofball thing for people like you and me that have been doing this our whole life, talking about Chico Simone, literally. And if you’re not into that, then they’re not into the soap opera,

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Howard Scher  31:01

the teenagers, the 20 some, the young kids, this is all they care about. Their attention span is this long. You know what they do? They do, like, autographs, things like that. And they like,

Bill Cole  31:13

get that anymore, right? Like, that’s a big change that happened in that early 90s to like, I can remember going as a kid and standing out back Memorial Stadium and waiting for him to come out. Yep, and they would stand there inside, and there was, you know, 50 of us back there after the game. That doesn’t happen anymore selfies. Maybe, I don’t know, does I mean, do they? Do they engage? Because they’re certainly not out in the community. We know

Nestor Aparicio  31:36

that. I’ve also thought, and I’ll leave it at this, just from a fan experience. And it look Howard, I was on the inside. You were my reporter for years. Alan, every like being on the inside of it. It was such an arrogant, awful concoction of people. People were, you know, down on me about Angelos. And I’m like, after 10 years of being treated like garbage and being screwed on a $40,000 deal business transaction, I got mouthy in 2006 and after that, I watched the complete deterioration. They lost for another six, seven years. After that, they were in their ninth they lost 14 consecutive years. They were an awful team, and I would go to their fan fest every year down at the convention. And when they stole they did away with that right. I watched that thing deteriorate from we’ve signed BJ sur Hoff, and we’re signing Jimmy key and we’re welcoming Rafael Palmeiro. We signed Roberto Alomar and sold out moonlight madness. I watched the deteriorate to seeing our friend Jeff amder, who we honored. I have pictures of you and I to watching like no offense to your Brian Mattis story, but I’m gonna give you a little Brian. Mattis is a kid who’s a left handed pitcher hadn’t made it. He’s sort of a washed up reliever started nobody, and I would see fans pay money to come down to this carnival, get tickets, wait in line three hours, 1000 deep, to have Brian Mattis go boom. And I’m thinking myself, what is that? That is a completely different experience than me and Ray Bachman and you trying to get Mark bolanger to sign a baseball for us at East Point mall or whatever, that experience Doug desenses coming to my my little league banquet or whatever. And I’m thinking, we have normal this is 20 years ago. I’m thinking this. This is when I live downtown. When I first got video moving 2000, 678, I went over to the fanfare and did live video. The orders weren’t thinking about that. I’m live streaming their fan fest, and they didn’t even already thrown me out so they couldn’t take my press space. So I’m over there trying to promote their friggin baseball team to eight o’clock in the morning, and there are people lined up to, lined up to lined up to get Brian Roberts autograph and pay $25 to do it. And I’m thinking to myself, how long is this going to last? And now the stadium is empty. They can’t give away playoff tickets. They’re going to have a strike next year. I just I love the Orioles. I love baseball. I don’t know what they’re doing. I can’t and If Katie Grace were sitting here, I’d say, please explain I’ll be tough. I’ll be a jerk, but explain this to me. Try to get my credit card, because I love baseball. Just please I want you to take my money. I love baseball. Treat me like you want me to come. That’s all. Treat Howard like you want him to come, not like you’re gonna bang him for 1000 bucks he didn’t use on his Birdland membership in a year you were let Don’t, don’t do that. That’s bad business. I

Howard Scher  34:31

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just don’t think they’re an anomaly. It’s not exactly that’s where Christian Southwest Airlines story is. What are the other teams

34:40

doing? Yeah,

Howard Scher  34:41

by the way, the Madison story was great. Oh, thank you. I enjoyed reading the history. I hear the

Nestor Aparicio  34:46

woman that sued me hated it. Chris Corman, so you got any party shots? I don’t let you on enough, man, but I love I know I am indebted, as a real journalist to the fact that there are people like you still doing this stuff, and people like Bill and Costas helping underwrite. Me and people like Howard that still believe in it and read your journalism. Because dude, if a bomb hit this place right now and you and I go down, they might as well get the whole marketplace, because there’d be no journalism being done. I mean, like, literally, it ain’t being done by Dan juris and ain’t being done by whoever’s running 13, and it certainly isn’t being done by the Smith family at this it’s just not being done. And I don’t know what to say, because if not for you, Justin Tucker might still be kicking, probably still be kicking, and Tyler loop would be a saint, or something like that. Might still be saying if he wins your bet on seven. But I just the banner is important, and I told everybody that would listen when you were at the sun, how important it is, because I’m seeing what’s happening to all of this, and it’s just there’s no place to even say taking your 1000 bucks is wrong. They’re taking your 1000 bucks and you’re okay with it.

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Howard Scher  35:50

I’m not okay, but it’s partially my fault. I can accept responsibility. Are you gonna

Chris Korman  35:55

sign up? He’s accepting responsibility. We found we found the person right, dude,

Nestor Aparicio  35:59

if you want to piss your money away? I can do a lot more. I can have more fun with you. We go back to Cancun, you and me pretend we’re single, really lousy time, like we should we should

Bill Cole  36:08

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probably go, No, we had a lousy time. You’re going down the wrong part of this conversation.

Nestor Aparicio  36:13

Yes, Chris Corbin is here. He is sports editor. The Baltimore banner is a good man. Read Julie’s work. Read Fenton fentanyl. Come on, I guess, read everybody. Read the whole thing Finn’s man at the Orioles. So I can’t have him on right now, because

Chris Korman  36:25

all he and I do, he’s just a fan. He’s, he and I respect that. Yeah, he’s,

Nestor Aparicio  36:31

he’s smarter than that. He’s a journalist. He knows he’s

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Chris Korman  36:38

not a sports journalist, though,

Nestor Aparicio  36:40

but you are. Bill Cole is a roofer and a solar expert, and my consciary, he took over when Howard gave up on me after Critics Choice. DJ, back in the 90s, Howard’s gonna stick around. I think we’re gonna talk some. What

Howard Scher  36:52

are we gonna talk about? I don’t know. I don’t know. We’ll

Nestor Aparicio  36:54

figure it out. Love you, Bill. Yeah, man, appreciate Chris with the journalism. Yeah, I know Bill appreciates it back for more word cost. This is all brought to you by the Maryland lottery and our crab cake tour. Stay with us. See.