Discussing the future of Camden Yards with an expert

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The second part of our extensive holiday chat with former Maryland Stadium Authority chairman Tom Kelso continued with a discussion about the future of downtown stadia and growth for Baltimore and what the new lease means for the Orioles, Ravens and the downtown area. No one in local media has discussed this $1.2 billion investment more thoroughly, candidly and accurately than we have and provided the information for citizens. This is important stuff for sports fans and citizens who are funding billionaires for franchises.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

stadium, teams, maryland, years, baseball stadium, lease, ravens, authority, wise, bonds, lottery, sports, john, put, state, money, change, tickets, long, angelo

SPEAKERS

Tom Kelso, Nestor J. Aparicio

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome back and W and S T tasks Baltimore and Baltimore positive we are positively in beautiful honey go sort of White Marsh sort of Perry Hall they call it honey go used to just be a dead end row but I lived in bury all they have a beautiful wise Mark it’s up here it’s all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery have little strips of Maryland lottery tickets here I’ve got the unwrap the cash the peppermint payouts I’ve been given these little Oh snaps away for a buck Tom counselors here from the Maryland stadium authority we were talking standing for Dummies we we haven’t Do we believe we have a deal we’re talking about all ailments so I use the bathroom between breaks and I’m giving away tickets and it First Things First when it’s the guy says are you Nestor I’m wondering whether the answer should be yes No. Would it matter if I say yes so I get that because we are up here so we have some some listeners so big appreciation to Bob I hope he won. Then I get one of these to a lady she looks at me she’s like are these last year’s tickets? Are you giving me last year I’m like what they still smell like peppermint peppermint gingerbread house so the public loves me up here when donation 866 90 nation you buy two you get two free 0% financing I’m in the market for doors Santa I need to door hope when the nation can make that happen for me also Jiffy Lube multi care my oil change light is my oh gotta get changed so I’m gonna go to Mara Boulevard do that could have done that the other day up in Lutherville. But I did not. This week it WNS TV here Michael Brown from curio wellness or Wendy here, Jean Jacques from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame from the Go Go’s as well as drew Westervelt from hex talking about how to get all the stink out of all my my hot yoga gear and your lacrosse gear. All that’s going to be happening Tom counselors, our guests right now we’re wise. We’re also gonna have crabcakes here today we’re gonna have Boston sauerkraut wise and the Executive Director of the Maryland lottery is gonna be very heartened by the fact that people think I’m handing out fake tickets at wise markets and Ani go, John Martin will be here a little later on as well. A lot of this money is lottery generated right like this where this money comes from. explain where all this money comes from. That you Wes Moore, everybody’s just giving money away 2 billion this this money comes from lottery funding, it comes from bonds and explain $1.2 billion. So Joe Sixpack who’s celebrating Christmas out there trying to put their nickels together to get themselves a free hand on the wise reward app. What where does all this money come from that benefits billionaires and then when the Ravens thing came out last week, I’m like, let’s see, we’re giving them money. And they’re gonna charge us more to go to the top level. It’s, I have to make sense of it. I love sports as much as anyone. But I do feel like maybe this is money that could build a school or help the police or build a bridge. I don’t know, Where does this money come from? Tom?

Tom Kelso  02:50

Well, Nestor, what you just said is certainly the same questions that the governor and the legislature were asking me back in 2020, and 2021, when we first started to surface the idea of the stadium funding

Nestor J. Aparicio  03:01

of a stadium, let I’m gonna play a little bit of that. Exactly. And,

Tom Kelso  03:06

you know, there’s no shortage of needs and wants across the state, from, you know, various jurisdictions from Prince George’s County, Montgomery County, to Baltimore City, to Eastern Shore, Western Maryland, Southern Maryland, everybody has needs and wants. And so every dollar that goes to sports funding is $1, that can’t go to someplace else in the short run. So the short answer to your question is is is that the stadium authority issues bonds, that are backed by money coming from the Maryland lottery. So when a somebody buys a bond issued from the stadium authority, that’s a stadium related bond is, is that they know that there is a special allocation from the Maryland State Lottery Fund every year, that goes from the lottery fund to the stadium authority to service the debt on the bonds that are issued.

Nestor J. Aparicio  04:06

I’m gonna talk to John Martin about that a little later on, too, because it is fascinating. You

Tom Kelso  04:10

tell John, I said thank you for them. Well, I

Nestor J. Aparicio  04:12

also there were people in you’re buying lottery tickets when literally the bathrooms on the other side, and I saw a woman who was buying lottery tickets in there. I think people buy lottery tickets all the time, I pimped the lottery, but tell people play responsibly, don’t stick these but by the way, I had a minor over here 18 Or else with these tickets. So and that’s an important stocking stuffer thing that John is going to be stopping his foot about but so the way this works hard to create revenue, right? And that revenue is for the greater good and for education for different things. That’s correct. But But sports teams are important. I mean, I you know, I’ve been doing this a long I mean, I was you’re pining away for give Baltimore the ball to get the stadium built to get the team here to give them more money. So when I saw all of the videos in the plans last week at a press conference, I He’s banned from so I want to point that out. Thank you Sashi. What? What did you think of that I watched the 25 Minute press conference, I thought there was something there’s one of the snarky things I’ve ever heard that the beer is colder and the hotdogs are tasty. You’re inside the perimeter. There’s a lot of premium and a lot of perimeter going on in that press conference. I felt like they’re not in touch in that way. But they’re in touch with the rich person that’s going to pay 20 bucks for a beer or want to be in their bowl bird Blackbird club. I saw all this stuff. And I thought, all right, is that get me to the game earlier? Is it making me stay laters and make me come on set? I don’t know. And I’m getting older. I’m getting phased out, as you can tell, but I’m excited that they’re gonna have a world class facility because I I’ve been to Oakland, I’ve been to places where I’ve been to Tampa to the baseball stadium down there. You know, I’ve been to places where it feels subpar. It doesn’t need to feel like Dallas to me or Vegas that need to feel like that experience. But it needs to feel like it’s current and it’s relevant. And since Memorial Stadium, we haven’t felt that here unless you go somewhere else to feel something that’s not good. Right?

Tom Kelso  06:12

Well, obviously, we started to get spoiled when Oriole Park opened up at Camden Yards. And all of a sudden, we had the most unique baseball stadium in the entire country. And I remember going to pick out my seats, you know, before opening day, and just being awed by this incredible building that was ours, and that our Orioles were going to play there and change

Nestor J. Aparicio  06:40

downtown changed downtown. But that our Gateway Arch is what I call

Tom Kelso  06:45

it really is there’s no question and it still is. It needs reinvestment. But it still is. And but you know to go back to the funding is is that the way the stadium funding bill works is is that the high light number is 1.2 billion. But the 1.2 is really a bond limit. So the most the largest amount of bonds that can be outstanding at any one point in time for either team is $600 million. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:17

this 480 that happened last week, you know, the Ravens is short of what

Tom Kelso  07:22

they could have gotten. Okay, and they still might go back and be able to get more, they would just have to extend the lease for longer than it is already.

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:32

15 years, right? Yeah. Okay. And

Tom Kelso  07:34

so and the way the stadium funding bill works is is that the teams as the bonds are paid down, the teams can come back and redraw that money. Or the teams and the MSA can redraw that money and additional investments can be made, so that you’re not doing it once every 30 years, you may be doing improvements, significant improvements once every 10 years so that the stadiums are constantly upgraded. The only caveats are is that the lease has to be as long as the longest outstanding bond. So every time the teams come back and want more investment, you have to extend the underlying lease. So it’s a self perpetuating lease extension, if you will, every time the teams want reinvestment money in the stadium, the lease is extended again. And and then the money that services the debt is $90 million. That’s appropriated annually from the lottery general fund that goes to the stadium authority that split 45 and 45. So there’s up to $45 million to service bonds at Oriole Park and up to $45 million to serve as bonds issued for m&t Bank Stadium. So the teams have equal access to money, just maybe not equal outcomes, right, because they’ll use it the way that they think it’s best to generate more economic activity. One team might be more successful than the other. We can’t guarantee that but we were able to guarantee both teams had equal access to money. And he pulled them out and what we call economic parity at the stadiums. Don’t

Nestor J. Aparicio  09:25

counselors here former Maryland stadium authority Chairman we have a deal there’s orange plumes of smoke billowing out of the warehouse. It’s actually we’re recording this on the day it all happens. So we’re trying to work through this. I have tried to ask new questions because we covered so much ground and I don’t want to be reiterative any more than we need to be. So this is sort of new but how unique is this? A you know to what I see out in Inglewood with Crunky steel on the team and going out there and teams being stolen in places i i want Watch the Oilers put on Euler gear in Tennessee and they’re gonna build all new thing down in Nashville for themselves. But this stadium authority thing where I can’t go to Philadelphia there’s a football stadium at baseball stadium as a hockey rink. I don’t know about the Philadelphia Sports Authority to Pennsylvania Sports Authority or the I don’t know how any of these other municipalities put this together, but it’s always felt to me. And because I’m 55 I watched the Colts leave at 15. I watched Governor Schaefer tried to put something like a stadium authority together, I watched Steadman fight from the inside of the paper as to whether the stadium was going to be at Port Covington, or downtown, or Columbia, Maryland, which was also sure, but you know, build it on 95 built it in Catonsville, there was a thought to put the whole complex down where UMBC is right. So we’re going back aways back into the 80s. But I’ve been in media for 39 years, whether Chad Steele admits that or not. So I know all of this stuff. But it’s felt unique to me because the baseball stadium happened and it was our Gateway Arch. And then we pined for the football team. But I’ve often said, because the baseball stadium thing was so awesome. So big league, it Lord, the football team. And John Moe could sit here that goes to John could sit here and probably say, you’re probably right about that. If I had to go steal a football team. We didn’t have a baseball team, we wouldn’t have had the success of having Camden Yards to say to art modell, or to the NFL, or to Al Davis, Georgia. fronte. Anybody who’s thinking about moving here, we’re gonna build you a football version of that baseball stadium. Look, I don’t think tag libo was happy about coming to town. But he knew the state had money to build a palace, and that that would get Cincinnati Cleveland, we show that we could do it. It got all the rest of them bill, right. So this structure of a stadium authority, and this balance of money and power and all the things that John tried to sort of upset the applecart the last six months as to how this has worked for 40 years. Does anybody else have a functioning thing like this that you for eight years looked at and said, This is the way they do it? Not in Texas or Florida, but but this is the way they did it no high or somewhere else to say, this is the right way to do it? Because they didn’t do it right in Missouri. And they didn’t do it right. In California, where they’re losing teams are not doing it right. Well,

Tom Kelso  12:25

there are different versions of stadium authorities, where there are publicly funded and own stadiums across the country. But what Maryland created was something unique to Maryland, it you know, everything. In Maryland, where you’ve got 23 counties, plus Baltimore City, when you get to the legislature, everything is some sort of a negotiation. And so everybody had to be comforted to understand is, is that not only were we going to put public money in and build a baseball stadium, but that it was going to be maintained, owned, operated, and reinvested in over time, appropriately. And so it was this idea of the creation of the stadium authority that stands in the shoes of the taxpayers, that I think put people from outside Baltimore City, he gave them the comfort to know that this great state investment in to the 1986 to 1990 or 1991 to get to stadium built that it was going to be worthwhile, and that it was going to be run appropriately and taking care of it. But

Nestor J. Aparicio  13:34

if it’s not this is when we lose the baseball team. Well, if Camden Yards is a hole that fell apart, in the way that I don’t know, name, a stadium that fell apart in the last 30. I mean, it’s probably not hard to do places that have been and I mean, Turner Field Hockey, you know, I mean, our field

Tom Kelso  13:50

is gone. You know, the baseball stadium in Tampa is about that generation. These are stadiums that are out of date, if they were ever in date, and are gone today, and so municipalities, but that’s how you lose your team, when you learn to stay important, more poorly, that you have to reinvest more frequently in larger amounts than you would have if you’d have just done it right in the first place. And you know, one of the things that I heard from the press conference last week that the Ravens did is is that they’re able to do these things at m&t Bank Stadium today, in what is you know, a stadium that was opened in 1998. So a stadium that’s 2425 years old, when these improvements are done, they’re able to do these level of improvements because the stadium was built and maintained as well as it has been. So you know, what we’ve done over the past 25 years, positions you to be able to do what you’re going to do now that’s viable over the next 10 or 15 years, and then you’ll keep doing it. And you we don’t ever want to get in a situation where the team’s the state ATMs get in such bad condition that the teams are unhappy, they’re talking about leaving. And that the taxpayers have to step up at a rate much greater than they should have to. So 1.2 billion sounds like a lot, right? But it’s not two and a half billion of building two brand new stadiums, right? It’s half that. So you know, you can continue to extend the useful life of what you have, if you continue to invest in it appropriately.

Nestor J. Aparicio  15:31

What did you make of the Ravens announcement last week, and what they’re putting in,

Tom Kelso  15:35

makes you feel better? I wasn’t invited either. Well, that’s fine.

Nestor J. Aparicio  15:41

To shake. The notion that they’re doing this club and this breathing area, and they’re widening, conquer all of these things, I’m sure when you were with diecast, when he was running the team, John, in his mind probably has an idea if he thinks he’s gonna run the team next year of what they want to do. The Ravens had a plan for this all along,

Tom Kelso  16:05

to plan for this all along, right. And it really speaks to the differences

Nestor J. Aparicio  16:09

between the two franchises as well as where, where you’re fighting over money, that might be money. Meanwhile, the ravens are putting the shovel in the ground. The minute the AFC Championship games, but Well,

Tom Kelso  16:19

that’s correct. So the reason that they wanted to get there, at least on ideally by one year ago right now, and we did it January 4 of 2023. Is that they want it to move quickly, so that as soon as the season is done in January of 2024, hopefully not too soon, but whatever it is, is as the shovels go in the ground, the very next phase one, phase one, right? So timing of these things is incredibly important, because it takes about a year’s worth of architectural work engineering, work, planning work, and then stadium authority running procurements in order to get contractors etc.

Nestor J. Aparicio  16:59

Last year, that will be next year, too. Well, that’s that’s another, that’s

Tom Kelso  17:03

another thing, right? But you have, it takes about a year of planning and execution to get to the point where you can put that shovel in the ground. So what lay laid out last week is what’s going to start happening in January. But they already knew in their minds, basically what this list of potential upgrades was going to be. They just had to do the design and engineering work. In order to be ready to start the work this you don’t have

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:32

access to ask them questions anymore. But if I did, I’d say how is this really going to help the bottom line? I mean, are you going to take a $200 ticket guy and make them a threat or like their tickets for $3 Last week, and nobody wanted to go? The park for me with the stadiums that I have a real fundamental problem if I were the one paying for it? And I guess I am we all

Tom Kelso  17:52

are right. We were paid? Well, they buy lottery tickets you are? Well, yeah, well, even

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:56

if you don’t somebody else’s, and it is. So it is what it is. I would say that the common man has been sort of left behind and all of this to some degree. And there is sort of a wall of cost to entry, and then cost to be in there and have a beer once you’re in there. And all of those sorts. I didn’t get the public part of it. Like when I go to New England, and I see the mall there. And I see movie theaters there. And I see people there at other times. I have pitched you and I will do this to the governor and anybody else. John, anybody sits in front of me. What’s the idea? The big idea is that disco in a bar and a band. We have all of that already, right? I mean, there’s a casino down the street trying to figure that out two blocks away. I still think about the big idea. And I also think was sports and my sort of weighing over 55 years of it as a citizen just as a citizen to look at it and say, I start your game at 630 How early you’re going to get people there. Your games are on Sunday at one o’clock. People going to forego church to come to your bar at 9am and drink $20 beers. The notion of

Tom Kelso  19:06

breaking off it’s a Notre Dame game The answer is is yes I walk in there

Nestor J. Aparicio  19:10

trying to break the tailgate model with the guys that were on the stage talking about better hot dogs and colder beer inside the perimeter and all that but I still think to myself and I think this when I go to European soccer games where they don’t have sky boxes and all that then I’m here to ours. I mean I’m not it’s not a hotel room. It’s not it’s not an experience you know it’s it’s a before, during and after. And I know what CFG Bank is doing with their bar Hey state come early, hang out in the clubs stay late after the show avoid traffic and I’ll hear all of that to some degree. But all that’s available in the club. The club level of the stadium is beautiful. I mean, both stadiums right now like if you go to either one, the baseball stadiums it’s been 30 years been a little while since they fixed it. But it’s still like a very comfortable you feel like you’re somewhere when I’m in the club level. Liborio gain. I feel like I’m somewhere I feel I feel like a rich guy even though as

Tom Kelso  20:04

well, you are somebody right? You’re always be somebody. But I’m saying

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:07

when you’re there in already, the club level of grievance seems beautiful. A, I don’t know how you could charge me $100 More $100 Less, it’s still really nice. They’re making more nice stuff. I just don’t understand. It’s, it’s great to brag about it, you can sell the sizzle of all that. But I’m trying to just spend a few 100 $80 million, are we really going to get more people there early or later or leaving more money? That’s where I scratch my head as an entrepreneur and ask that question for the excess of at all, just as a as a human for access, you know? Well, stadiums

Tom Kelso  20:42

in the United States, you know, tend to be going to the showing more access type of things. So I remember when the Ravens wanted permission to be able to put their own money $125 million in a stadium to increase the size of the size of the video boards. And to create those video boards and the notches up in the corners of the upper deck. What that was was primarily to appeal to people who are doing video sports, right, they want to be able to be able to check stats, they want to be able to see score

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:19

said it was about fantasy put it there was more it’s about gambling, it’s about

Tom Kelso  21:25

on its way to game, right, because it’s no secret to gambling was coming. Right. But that’s what was required in order to be able to do that. Keeping up with the Jerry Jones is it’s keeping up well, it’s really making sure that people who care about that stuff, instead of staying home or going to a sports book, sir will get in their car, go to the stadium and go inside the stadium and watch the game. And so TV has changed professional sports dramatically. And what’s going on in TV today with cable people, you know, disconnecting from cable and going to streaming. You know, that’s a model that is really NFL struggling with it. But Major League Baseball is really struggling with it. So Masson is a cable network. So, you know, as the number of people that are connected to the cable continue to go down, then the amount of revenue that’s generated from TV, through cable connection goes down. And Major League Baseball, like professional football has to find a way to get games streamed to people and find a way to charge them for it. So all of professional sports, even though we think it’s all highly successful, and money driven, and everybody’s a bazillionaire is is that sports are constantly changing. And the

Nestor J. Aparicio  22:43

tectonic plates under the business model are shifting dramatically.

Tom Kelso  22:47

And in my experience with both John Angelos and with Dick Cass and Sashi Brown and Steve shotty is, is that they’re both working all the time, mentally, they’re all working mentally about this idea of where do we need to be in the future. So what we do today isn’t necessarily just for the day, it’s to make sure that three, five years from now is is that they’re in a place where they think they need to go and they’re getting information from Major League Baseball, or the NFL, you know, they’re not all just operating in a vacuum and trying to make it all up themselves is is that there are best practices, there are studies and information that they have access to. So, you know, the stadium authorities job is is to be a partner, right? We want them there. We want them to be successful. And in order to be successful, we want them to win. We need them to have the financial tools in order to win. And to the extent that a stadium can help them do that. We that’s the job of the stadium authority. And that’s why the stadium funding bill was so critical, because it allowed the stadium authority to really become an ongoing partner with the teams to make sure that we could continue to put money to work as the sports continued to change.

Nestor J. Aparicio  24:07

Wow, there’s any doubt that it brings people together like nothing else does, right? Like and we’re and you feel that galvanisation With 1103 football team, you felt that with 101 wins pain of losing in Arlington and what that’s going to mean for Craig Kimbrel and whatever we’re going to do around here Tom counselors here he loves sports to a former Maryland stadium authority. Sure. So are we done now or you go back to being proud Tom and Hunt Valley now? Or like what what happens from your role? And are you satisfied in regard to I would think you’re proud of yourself and probably this was not a very easy thing for you to be the whistleblower the outspoken person, the person that provides color for all the answers where I’m not getting that from Wes Moore I’m not getting that from Greg Thompson. Is this is this Chapter closed a little bit for

Tom Kelso  25:01

you, you said it earlier is, is that I spent eight years while I was chairman trying not to be in the media. And, you know, I was really kind of thrust into this position, but not because I wanted to be in the media. But because I knew that people needed to understand this better. And because I had conceived of the stadium funding bill and got that passed, because I had negotiated the Ravens lease got that done and approved. And because I had worked with John Angelos for four years, and knew pretty much what John Angelos was thinking, I knew that I was basically the only person not on the inside, that had all this information, and could articulate it to people in a way that I thought that maybe they could grasp and understand some very complex subjects. And so I was kind of thrust into this, because I’m passionate about it. Because I care about the taxpayers. I care about this being done. Right. And, you know, I feel like we have come a long way from where we were back in the early summer, from back when we the MOU was issued in September, we’ve come a long way. I still want to read the documents. I mean, they become public. I still, you know, will may have some commentary about, you know, there’s some tweaks, here are some other things that maybe we still need to go back and take a look at. But today, I feel really good that we’ve come a long way with the help us. I think the media has done a phenomenal job, Nestor, you’ve done a phenomenal job, the sun, the banner, Maryland matters, my whole crew.

Nestor J. Aparicio  26:42

At the end of the day, for all the bluster and all this stuff, I have an FCC license, right, that I serve the community in an odd and you’ll see what I’m doing radio row week to serve the communities. Well, we’re putting together the biggest promotion we’ve ever done. But ill informed citizens at every level, politically, educationally sports wise, in any way. That’s where I’ve always tried to fill that gap by saying, I know someone that’s an expert about that. And I’m going to ask them real questions, and not take any BS about it. And when it comes to the Angelo’s family, and now what I’ve dealt with in regard to the football team, not taking questions and kind of running and hiding and playing games, I’m extremely disappointed by their own self checks. You know what I mean? The fact that that a communications guy could throw me out from asking questions on his own for at a whim, is insane. The baseball thing has played for 30 years. But I’ve said this, and I’ve said this since last time you’re on, I’m starting to smell that something else is going to happen. I’m 55. Steve’s publicly said he’s not going to own the team forever. So there’s going to be at some point, his kids aren’t going to own the team. And the Angelo situation, where you talk about when all this gets done, five, 810 years from now, whenever the little city that Camden Yards is going to be the football, gold stuff that they’re building, when all that happens there, they’re very well, we’ll be at least one new own or if not two, and these are really about the entities themselves, and not about how wealthy the Angelo’s is that the machines are going to get, but there should come a point from the taxpayers to say, You’re doing okay, you bought the team for 150 million, you could sell it for 2 billion, there’s only so much that we should be doing for you. Beyond yourself, I

Tom Kelso  28:40

think that when you get to the idea of a development agreement, okay, that’s where you know, that really has to be examined very closely. Because no matter what happens there, the state will always be there. We own it, so that you can’t just give it to somebody else, or lease it to them for a de minimis amount and walk away. Because if bad things happen, you still own it. If a stadium is not well maintained, you still own it, the taxpayers have that financial responsibility to upgrade it. And so I’ve always looked at this and said, look, the only permanent party on a Camden Yards complex is is the Maryland stadium authority in the state of Maryland. And by because of its location, Baltimore City, the team owners will come and go, and that the lease agreements, they have to be nuts, hard

Nestor J. Aparicio  29:32

to say because they haven’t come and gone right in our last 30 years. They hate it feels like they’re here for really their kings that

Tom Kelso  29:39

they’re not but they’re not they’re not. And so and if you look over the last 1012 years in Major League Baseball, there’s six teams that have changed ownership, and it looks like San Diego is going to change ownership again. So you know, teams are changing ownership more frequently. And so what we have do is is that we have to make sure that our agreements with teams are agnostic as to who the owner is, right? Because it shouldn’t be unique to an owner. It should be unique to the state. And the owners will come and go and we’re going to be their partner, but it can’t just be unique to John Angelo’s are unique to Steve and shoddy, because somebody else is going to stand in their shoes, and may want to do different things. And that’s why we need things that are dynamic, and you need an authority that can deal with that. And, you know, I think that’s where we are. And I feel, you know, fairly good that we’re getting there. In the oil lease today,

Nestor J. Aparicio  30:40

I’m going to release you from IRS, I feel I feel like we’re at the end. But only the beginning. Because I’m going to come back and follow up with you when all this is done. But Happy Christmas to you. From what you’re looking at the supermarket, used to not leave here without a ham at some sauerkraut, kielbasa. Tom, counselor, former Maryland stadium authority Chairman here trying to go through all of your concerns, all the realities of it. And I, you know, if I think of like, if you weren’t here today, who could I ask that would have this institutional knowledge? I mean, I don’t know whose second place was I mean, literally, I mean, your your wealth of information about all this. And I’ve had people from the governor down, try to shoot holes at your information. And I’m thinking to myself, nananana now shot with bullshitters, you know, for long, let me the, you know, no, no, no, no, like, the fact that you didn’t get paid to do this, the fact that you’re still here today, still a part of all this just speaks to how important it is to you. And I wish everything were this important to everybody who stands at the charge of something where there’s a lot of money and a lot of power. And people have written to me about your integrity. And I’m thinking to myself, Man, what is your what I

Tom Kelso  31:55

have no upside, right? I’m not trying to accomplish anything other than trying to get good public policy done. Sure. And I’m going to be really happy to go back into my quiet life.

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:07

Next time you see me,

Tom Kelso  32:10

somewhere to gain. Exactly. And so, but I appreciate everything you’ve done, and I appreciate Thank you, you know, you allowing some sunlight to be put on this stuff? And I think that because of it is is that? You know, with the governor’s leadership, and John angelos, his leadership, we’ve gotten to a better place. And that’s where I think it’s ultimately important.

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:33

All right, this is a real deal, right, that we’re not going to wake up and find. Well,

Tom Kelso  32:37

I’ll be back here next week. If it’s not a real deal, all right. Well, it’s a real deal. I have been reassured the hardest part

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:46

of all this has been the false alarms Right? Like to the point where like, I’m sitting there watching the game that night September and sending the governor congratulatory tax

Tom Kelso  32:54

I’ve I have felt a lot of compassion and sympathy empathy with a sports fans because they don’t have the background and knowledge that I have or you have is is that you know, they’re just reading somebody’s synopsis in the newspaper or on Instagram or something like that. Maybe listening to you. They don’t know everything that you know, or I know. And you know, this was never about the Oreos leaving it was just about the terms and conditions under which they were going to stay. And you know, it did so if you’ve just asked the average fan on the street, you know, do you want the Orioles to sign a new lease every ca Yeah, we want to sign a new lease. But would you want to do it under some of the terms and conditions that were proposed? Most people would say no if there’s a better option and that’s what I was pushing for is is to get a better option to get things that work better for the taxpayers that’s all I cared about all I care about. Well

Nestor J. Aparicio  33:57

the mail lottery funds a lot of this and for being our guests on the program is gonna get a peppermint payout. I got peppermint payouts and unwrapped the cash I got Oh snow snaps and the smelly gingerbread are friends at the Maryland lottery put this thing on with us John Martin’s gonna be here we’re wise markets when donation 866 90 nation I got the wacky hat don’t forget about the door certainly I’m not going to I hope Santa is going to buy me doors. Give me door sorry about that Santa doesn’t buy he gets else doing that. Also our friends at a Jiffy Lube multi care I’m going to be getting my oil change as well. Braskem Global provides this for when I say goodbye to gases through my Richard share, square off that. We’re gonna allow Tom Kelsey to be a jerk but I’m going to come back here from wise markets. Derek Frazier’s here he’s the manager of this store. It was gonna go former professional wrestler has toured the world. We’re talking about his time in Japan and being a wrestler to talk about Dave the wave my my buddy, who was a referee, as well as Axelrod and in a whole bunch of wrestling stuff. We’re also gonna wrestle around with a sauerkraut kielbasa. We have crab cakes coming here. They are the signature crab cakes and wise they’re delicious. They’re even better when they’re served on a shrimp as a stuffed shrimp crab cake. They’re gonna serve those to me today because I’m special. They liked me wise markets. I’m appreciative that John Martin’s gonna be here. He’s not bringing lottery tickets. He’s gonna laugh when that lady he yelled at me. Are these last year’s tickets? No, they’re legitimate too. I’m looking. I know there was. My hair’s long. I know I was just trying to be legitimate. My thanks to Tom Kelso for stopping by Maryland crab cake tours moving on. We’ll be at fade Lee’s next Wednesday and Merry Christmas. We’re back from our from wise markets. We’re gonna talk wrestling supermarkets and the proper way to serve green bean casserole during the holiday. Stay with us.

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