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Talking Orioles pennant race fever over beer and crab cakes


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The Maryland Crab Cake Tour rolled back into Koco’s Pub in the midst of baseball fever in Lauraville. Our favorite sportswriter from The Washington Post who has only lived in Baltimore joined our lifer sports cartoonist pal to discuss whether the Ravens or Orioles might soon bring us a parade. Let Dave Sheinin and Mike Ricigliano give you pennant fever!


orioles, years, baseball, coco, payroll, player, live, people, sports, win, stadium, hear, city, baltimore, day, sign, team, built, ravens, point


Dave Sheinin, Mike Ricigliano, Nestor Aparicio

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

W n s t Towson Baltimore. Up over positive. We’re positively doing the Maryland crabcake tour. These my favorite days, man, today is the 30th anniversary of the 1993 All Star Game Camden Yards. We’re here at Coco’s, we’re laurelville celebrating these guys have gotten natty bows out here bowing Blaine


Mike Ricigliano  00:21

orlimar Come on. Yeah, we

Nestor Aparicio  00:22

got orange and black. It’s all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery or they sponsor us natty boat does not I’ve given these way. They’re the 50th anniversary scratch offs to throw back kind of remember these tickets. Were back in the 70s when I was a kid, I have one little stack of these left. be giving these away here today. Coco’s and then at the Beaumont next week in Catonsville. And there’s a rumor we’re going to have a Hall of Famer, I don’t I’m not going to say what kind of Hall of Fame we have a Hall of Famer coming next week to the Beaumont which should be great because it’s always great when this person comes on the show, because I enjoyed this person very much. Also on the third of August and the fourth of August. It is our 25th anniversary wn St. They said we’d never make it you know Jeff Beauchamp was quoted in the Baltimore Sun the day we open rocket to take down on me. Yeah, I have and I’ll show you rock did it take down on me. They said the he said that we would lack the financial ability and the talent possible to continue going. It’s our 25th anniversary. So after getting pooped on in the Baltimore Sun when it mattered in the 90s, by the guy ran web ACL, I stopped my feet on 25 years. Danny Costas, we’re going to be a drug city on the fourth and we’ll be giving these away as well. So big thanks to everybody also let raskins given me this crab ballot that I’m going to put to use on the third with the beer thing and and Mr. Costas always pours me tap beer, but I’m gonna pop it with us. They shot us here for The Washington Post. Don’t let that fool you because he lives in Baltimore butcher’s Hill. microcytic Liana lives. Would you say you live in Lara Ville when people ask you Is that what you what do you say? Arcade. Berkshire that’s up the road now. Definitely not Beverly Hills.

Mike Ricigliano  01:57

Now that’s a little you know where we live on the best street.

Nestor Aparicio  02:01


There’s a Beverly Hills sign like that

Mike Ricigliano  02:03

right quarter mile. From here. We live on the best street which is eastward drive, which we call Clint Eastwood drive. It’s right on the park. It’s

Nestor Aparicio  02:10

Sean and I grew up in Dundalk, but my cousin’s lived you know, 100 yards from his house and I spent every weekend of my childhood. You know, my my uncles and aunts playing poker listening to Moran gay, all Venezuelan in the park. They’re eating crabs. My uncle Nelson worked at Chesapeake Cadillac, right over 25th. And we went to Orioles games because he always got the Chesapeake Cadillac club seats behind third base. I saw a group play for the Indians wing garland pitch for d&d 77 somebody. So I grew up like in his neighbor, and then he moved out here in like 8485. So I had been coming to your neighborhood forever. So this is a bit I mean, Martin O’Malley live right down. Marner girlfriend,

Mike Ricigliano  02:57

organic camping band now.


Nestor Aparicio  02:59

She just be in the party. Party. I

Mike Ricigliano  03:02

would try and I got the first base. It’s true. It’s true that

Nestor Aparicio  03:08

or maybe the first base was right, you know, sports. It’s what you’ve done your whole life. You grew up near Georgia, wanting to be a writer. Where do you go to college? You go to Virginia, like Vanderbilt went to Vanderbilt. I think I knew that. Solomon had a thing for all those Virginia guys, right, man?

Dave Sheinin  03:26


Yeah. A lot of a lot of our staffers came out of there and Northwestern you know, Christine Brennan. Mike will bond. Some people you’ve heard of Yeah. Colleague Rachel Alexander. Sure. RACHEL Nichols. Sure. Yeah.

Nestor Aparicio  03:38

So we’re sick. I met at the paper in 1984. I began at the at the news American on January the 20th 1984. Okay, so put your head into this. The Orioles just won the World Series. Sports. First is three months old Tom Robinson needed an intern to answer phones to get ag right. And Bob passed and run in the sports department. Bernie Mykolas John Hawkins, Jeff Gordon, Barry Levine Ken Davis. Tom Cousins. them leaving people out? Good. Yeah. I mean, like, like all of these mentors to me, and I met received I had a pregnant girlfriend. I was 15 years old. That’s true. And and I love sports. There was the Colts left eight weeks into my time working in a sports department. Right. You know, I was a part of all of that. I was there. The week that football team left. We kind of believe that that eminent domain Ps that like maybe they weren’t really gone right. And then they showed up what what Stedman went on, put the byline in from the Hoosier dome. I thought they’re not coming back. Yeah. It took me till September of at Florida, right God saying Yeah, but I’m a junior in high school. Dave at the time, you know, and working at the paper. Yeah. And all I ever wanted to do all I ever wanted to do in my life. And you know this you’ve known me since I was a kid was be John Steadman. Be Ken Rosenthal be Oscar Madison. Be Mike Lupica be Mitch album be a writer Tom Boswell you Tom Boswell? Sure. Baseball so I

Mike Ricigliano  05:11

K through Oscar Madison into that

Nestor Aparicio  05:14

pasture was my Richie Cunningham was my first But Oscar Madison. No but in real terms you have become that you embody that, you know receipt got spit out of sportscar tuning. It does a million different things. I got spit out of the newspaper business. Thank God. My dad was so pissed at me when he died. My dad died mad at me. Because I left the paper. He wanted me to stay at the paper and get a gold move. So disappointed, right? He loved to hear me on the radio when he thought at that time first he died in summer 92. So he thought that stadium was new. There was no Camden Yards. Man, you were beat writer, right? You were the beat writer. When this all happened? 30 years ago, when Camden Yards came when the renaissance of sports. Sports was built off the backs of people at my father in the 50s and 60s in the Colts in the Orioles. The city got bent over and just screwed bad by the football thing. And then you come here and you’re competing with the Baltimore Sun. Yeah. Beat riding the Orioles which was still a primary beaten Washington at that time. Not the Redskins, but more important than the capitals are the bullets right? Yeah, at that time, right. Yeah. Run me through what your eyes have seen here for Baltimore. Because you you’ve made a life in this city. You chose to live here because you covered the baseball team. I think at the beginning


Dave Sheinin  06:26

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I did. That’s what I got hired to do. That’s, that’s why I wound up in Baltimore. You know, they hired me to cover the Orioles. It didn’t make any sense to live in DC. I’m not a suburbs guy. So it was live in Baltimore. I’ve never

Nestor Aparicio  06:39

lived in DC. I’ve never lived in DC. So you worked in Washington for 30 years. Yeah, I lived in Baltimore. Beautiful thing.

Mike Ricigliano  06:46

That’s a beautiful.

Dave Sheinin  06:47


I mean, I’ve never had a job where I had to be in the office in DC every day. If that had ever happened. That would have been. I can’t I couldn’t commute every day. I probably would have moved but you took it up.

Nestor Aparicio  06:58

You were gonna cover baseball for 30 years like Boswell? Right? No, no, no, no, I never had more interest in that. Yeah, I

Dave Sheinin  07:04

was never just a boy. I’d never considered myself just a baseball guy. Yeah, it was the job that got me into the door at the wash. Really? No it? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Nestor Aparicio  07:12

Yeah. I mean, yeah, that’s a part of like that when I started to hire people that I learned how dumb people were. Yeah, I mean, like people that wanted to work at the radio station that had no writing skills at all, they just beat the dead, no writing skills, or they just didn’t have as much knowledge as they thought they had. So I would do this. Let me thank God for Luke Jones. Everybody that knows me knows that Luke covers these teams better than anybody. And he was a schoolteacher up in Pennsylvania, who went to Syracuse to be a be a journalist, you know, and then came back and followed a different path. And he’s been doing it for me for 15 years. But the notion of how much you have to know, right, and I would do this king of Baltimore thing in the arts, you know, 56789, I was always looking for people that could come and do this for a living. And I would hand them a quiz like, like sort of like a prick. Right? And say here, how much do you know?


Mike Ricigliano  08:03

Oh, like diner?

Dave Sheinin  08:04

Totally. Yeah, that’s exactly what

Nestor Aparicio  08:08

what would be the prerequisite to give you a microphone on my radio station? I mean, you don’t know anything about baseball? Yeah, seriously. So these people would come to me and they were God bless all of them. They really thought they listened to me. They thought they were they could do this better than me. They thought they knew more like all of that. Right. And I would say bring it on, right? Come play your song. Right. So you can go back and watch these because he was on YouTube. We videoed it all. And Luke was the grand prize winner out of 500 different people tried to do this Ruth is the only one that can really do it. And um, and I knew that the minute I met him, by the way, he carried himself his notes is perfect. But more than that, the basis of knowledge that he knows something about Chico Simone, and he knows something about Steve Dahl kowski. And that he, you know what I mean? Like he just has such as most like the osmosis about this. And that. That’s the way I was as an Aparicio to my father was, and when people didn’t know as much about sports as me, I really would turn my nose up and say, You’re not really qualified to cover the Orioles. Sorry, if you don’t know who can Singleton is, it’s probably not a good idea that you’re on the radio here. I had a kid that interned for me, and he’s still in my life, and I love him dearly. I sent him down to a bullets game to do reports for me. And he said, and Phil Shetty A is Oh, no, wow, that’s true. You can’t do that. I’m saying so when you say to me, yeah, well, yeah. Cover baseball, The Washington Post. Do your basis of knowledge of baseball had to be supernatural? Yeah. Oh, yeah. For supernatural

Dave Sheinin  09:40


100%. I mean, I lived in died, you know, with the Atlanta Braves when I was a kid. I mean, I knew every stat on the back of every baseball card. I mean, I lived and died and now at the same time, though, baseball wasn’t my only passion back then. Well, now Even in sports, I mean, just just like you. I mean, you would have loved the Colts, right? I mean, just as much. Sure back in the day, right? So we had the Falcons and and at that era, the Atlanta Hawks were the best team in the city. And that was the Dominique era hawks just couldn’t get past the pistons and then couldn’t get past you know, the Larry Bird Celtics, but they were the best team in town 60 Bar Caskey to win your we had they and they had some playoff appearances. And you know, the Braves had the head one appearance in I want to say 82. Behind Dale Murphy. Bob Horner. Yeah. But then hard times, you know, so I had a huge base of knowledge on all sports come in here. And it wasn’t just baseball. That was the job that got me in the door of the Washington. Well, that’s

Nestor Aparicio  10:42

why I said to you, I met you you’re covering the Orioles. And I’m thinking in the end in the end, you would have liked Rosenthal’s track or Verducci track. Yeah. In regard to loving baseball. Yeah, when Jeff passed, and I loved baseball that much. But I didn’t know once Angelo’s bought the team, it became not fun. I mean, to be on the radio every day watching the thing get ripped apart. And people are asking me how and why. And I’m like, well, the owners of creep, he’s willing to lie about anything to anybody. He’s petty. He’s mean, he like all of these things in the Snyder thing in DC from the post perspective, but 30 years into this, we don’t have a lease. And the commissioner is talking about bringing the all star game back like I am just, I love the Renaissance. I love the players. I’m just wondering like, this was supposed to move our community and change our community. And it did. You got here. You live here all these years later, because of it literally. Yeah.

Dave Sheinin  11:38

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, if you remember in the 90s. Or the Orioles were the thing, right? It was it was nobody. Everybody did it. Well, yeah. But But even after the Ravens came in the picture, I mean, it was still a baseball town. It was and it defined. The Summer in the City was the Orioles. It was you you measured your summer by the standings, right. You know, you knew when the all star game came, you know, you were at the midpoint of summer. I mean, you just felt that in the in the rhythms of the city, right. And the stadium was filled every night with 40,000 people, right. And then slowly they lost that right after that was built

Nestor Aparicio  12:19

by Brooks and Earl and booming, it just generation to


Mike Ricigliano  12:25

a beautiful new stadium. It was the

Dave Sheinin  12:26

stadium, it was the stadium as much as anything. Because at the end of memorial, like the crowds weren’t what they you know, it wasn’t

Nestor Aparicio  12:33

a law enough to Washington that the Washington Post dedicated hundreds of 1000s of dollars to you to cover it. Well, I mean, like Washington, Washington, and

Dave Sheinin  12:40


that was fine. That was only because Washington didn’t have a team. And if Washington had a team, as they do now, we dropped the Orioles as a beat. You know, I mean, that’s just the it’s just, it’s just a financial, this is sort of

Nestor Aparicio  12:51

the athletic from what I understand. But for where sports journalism that we can go into the whole thing, but for what baseball represents. And I keep asking this question, because Jon’s gonna go to our government, you’re gonna pay for it, we’re all gonna pay for it, you know, for them to be here to do something that makes it not 30 years old anymore, right? Something that’s new, something that’s fresh, like the top golf or the casino or whatever Steve’s going to do with the $600 million that they’ve given him now that all these teams are here to benefit the community. I mean, that’s, that’s why we lower them. That’s why we fear losing them, right. That’s why we think like if we lost the Oreos, oh, my God, we wouldn’t Well, I mean, we lost the Colts here one time and it sucked it did. It changed everything about those 12 years of and you were here for all 12 years of adversity because you’re changed our community.

Mike Ricigliano  13:39

Sure, absolutely. And you know, you can feel it because Oakland has lost now two majors, sports teams within St. Louis,

Nestor Aparicio  13:46

what’s been done to that community, right, every time I have our balls are on and just the lies that went into that. I know, I’m not concerned the ORS are going anywhere. I’m concerned with how it’s about more than just the Angelo’s family making money. You know, how is it about the city? How is it about all of us?


Dave Sheinin  14:03

I’ve told you this before the Orioles aren’t going anywhere. And it’s not it’s not out of any benevolence on anybody. It’s just the sheer economics of baseball wanting to expand, right? And they’re not going to give up a premium market somewhere where they would like to expand. They’re not going to give that to the Orioles to go and take away Nashville, or Portland or Las Vegas or whatever. I mean, Las Vegas is off the table now apparently. But you know what I’m saying? They want to expand to 32 teams. So they’re not going to give the Orioles, one of the top cities. They’re just not going to let that happen. Even if they wanted to move which I’m not convinced they do. They’re not going to let it happen. They are not going to move.

Nestor Aparicio  14:45

The worry I have now is having watched Major League 100 times since it came out that they’re winning now and we have to support it right financially, whatever the barometer is right this moment right wherever they are right now or this offseason for sale. Most tickets, whatever Master is going to become whatever the next dream is financially. They can’t even get their games on on Friday night in my head, right? Like, Luke was at the beach in Wildwood last week and couldn’t use the app and couldn’t watch the games. Right? Like 2023. Okay, that’s more of

Dave Sheinin  15:16

an MLB thing than the Orioles and MLB is putting their product all over the place. You have to, you have to have an Excel spreadsheet to know what channel they’re on on any given night. I mean, I hear Yankees fans complaining about it. I mean, I hear nationals fan every generation with an unlucky Well, that’s another thing, right? So yeah, I mean, Apple TVs involve Amazon’s you know, it’s it’s, it’s Major League Baseball, and it’s all sports. It’s all sports in America, trying to get their arms around this new world, of splintering, you know, TV cord cutting, streaming it, no one knows where this is going. And everybody is scrambling to try to get their product in front of eyeballs. They’re not trying to hide their product from you. I guarantee you that. But they don’t they have not yet figured out where this is all going. And they’re trying to keep options open.

Nestor Aparicio  16:05


Well, it’s not going back into the hole. We’re not going back to newspapers and cable television. We’re not going we’re not going there. No. So but for me when this is such a huge opportunity for the Orioles to capture market share, to capture hearts to capture minds. I know the you know, part of the Ravens just keeping up and signing Lamar was they didn’t want to play a year without a quarterback. Or a year with Anthony because they could have gone that method. They could be selling Anthony Richardson out here and say, hey, you know we don’t 52 million into him. We’re gonna go buy three more row Quan Smith’s with that money. And we’re gonna prove another quarterback here. And they didn’t the Ravens felt like they that there is that going on? Because there’s not a lot of money to go around in this marketplace, especially now that the nationals have claimed that money, who’s coming back to the sky boxes, who are the people that are going to buy who are the fans are going to fill the stadium. And that’s the thing that worries me for the Orioles are saying we’re all that Peter went up the barn in 1997. And said we would be if Washington got a team. We’re the Oakland we’re the second seat second team in this market for money for all the big money for all the real Skybox money sponsor money eyeballs, that it’s imperative that the Orioles capture the market here and it not have 8000 people in the stadium next May on a Tuesday night. Because that really is an impetus to say maybe I could do better Nashville, maybe we could do better. So because I don’t think there’s any rush for John to have a lease. I think John can go day to day, week to week for the next eight years. If he wants, the fans don’t seem to know or care. It doesn’t matter. Nobody’s asking questions about it. And why should he sign? What’s the benefit to him unless he gets what he wants? Which is what Atlanta has, which is a city basically around it. Right?

Dave Sheinin  17:50

Yeah. Which, you know, you have to ask yourself is Would that work here in the same way, you know, Atlanta, I’ve been there. I’ve been to truest park or whatever it’s called this year, you know, it’s out in the suburbs, right. And there’s tons of parking, there’s a huge footprint of, of land, and it’s beautiful. And it’s and it’s welcoming, and it’s in. It’s amazing. It’s an amazing atmosphere. But, you know, I don’t know that that works in Baltimore to the same degree without all the parking and without all the infrastructure and the space and the footprint. You know, I don’t know. I mean, I’ve been hearing that for years. I’ve been hearing that for as long as I’ve heard we’ve got to redo harborplace You know, and we’ve got to make that inviting and it’s it’s a version of the same thing, right? i The journalist

Nestor Aparicio  18:35

in me and the journalist in you should be saying okay, where are the five smart people with the plan? John wants a billion dollars he wants better what’s the plan? Is it housing is it mix you what is it what what craft is it a mall is a movie? What is it? I know it’s not a mall but I mean, what what good bring me the ideas and I yell them out at you yell them out in the media yells mad and we yell them out together and say I like that. Hey, we can’t than yours was built and and you probably remember this for six Stedman Yes. Had a real hard on about that stadium. Being in Port Covington. He wanted that stadium where the new city is where the cruise ships are. He loved the water. He loved the access to 95 the transportation court like he just loved the warehouse. It was a wasteland right? I mean, like it was a wasteland. Even then right was the edge of the docks Stedman every day stepping back, stepping on 50 column 50 columns trying to I don’t know whether the senator down there was in his pocket or the bank account. I don’t know who was egging him. Somebody was in his year, egging him to write port Covington poor commented to the point where I entered the stadium with John the day that they let the media come in before the Mets game back in 92. And I walked the stadium with John and John was John liked it, but you could tell it wasn’t his idea. You know, like I was with him the whole Old time he thought that stadium belonged and poor common download that he ever came around before he died. And even saying, okay, invigorated downtown, you know, like, but there was a movement afoot. I’d love to have that kind of a debate about whatever we’re going to do down there. But I think it’d be a fun civic debate. But I think it’s a necessary debate if they’re asking for money from everybody that says, Absolutely. And I mean, you know, let’s,

Dave Sheinin  20:26

let’s flip it around. I mean, now, I mean, don’t you feel like with this team, and the way that everybody has done their part, to make this a contender, that now it’s on ownership to supplement that roster, and turn it into a champion, right? I mean, everybody on board has done what they were signed up to do, including the GM who a lot of people wanted to slam for this teardown job and didn’t believe that they could get it to this point. He’s done it. The players have done it. The front office has done it. The manager has done it. The Scouting has done it.


Nestor Aparicio  21:01

Now I’m gonna spend money on it.

Dave Sheinin  21:05

Well, I mean, the crowds have been pretty good. They’re good. Not gonna Yeah, yeah. It’s not gonna they’re not gonna draw 3 million, you know, like back in the day, this year.

Mike Ricigliano  21:17

I mean, are we including the city itself,

Nestor Aparicio  21:21


where I want to like push back on this shine. And so but we were Coco’s pub, we’re doing a metal craft kick towards finally. So all of this lowering the bar, I’m fine with it’s not going to be three points in the Washington people aren’t going to come back. But why limit what it can or can’t be. I mean, the fact that they leave those seats empty up on the, the free the bird seats, those are the seats, we sat in for free, the Braves or bird. There’s also the seats when I sold 2500 of them for a Phillies game that I found pictures today, because I’m doing my top 25 moments ever. When I think about the moments at the stadium and things that happen the stadium and where this momentum is supposed to lead, right? All these great players are coming, the momentum should lead to that, that it shouldn’t I will say Unlimited, but we shouldn’t be limited by so well. 20 1000s of good credits. Now

Dave Sheinin  22:08

what I’m saying I’m just saying for this year, for this year, you haven’t done anything yet. You’re still on the you’re on the upswing now. Now, if they put together a winner, a consistent winner here for three, four years, and it gets to be like 9096 and 97. Again, where you you know you have a contender from day one, then you should be getting the 30,000 crowds every day. And we’ve

Nestor Aparicio  22:31

seen that in Philadelphia where chance to win. We see that that’s Kansas City when they

Dave Sheinin  22:36

were still on the upswing from that like we’re not there yet. That that lags a year behind. I agree it lags a year behind in both directions. If you remember in 98 a disaster of a season when Alomar, pow marrow and everybody’s fighting and fell. And now Albert Bell, well, he came in 99. But that that you’re still had a 3 million attendance, right. And for a terrible team, and then by 99 2000 has started to decline in the attendance always lags a couple of years behind on both ends. So for this team to build a contending team, right now, you’re gonna get the payoff with attendance, and 24 and 25. That’s interesting.


Nestor Aparicio  23:14

I’m not even as interested in his attendance as I am is just buy in that everybody knows who the players are. They’re following that thing. You know, pretty Crisp, like you said, something to me is like, they’re doing well enough that they’ll sell out playoff games. And I’m like, All right, if that’s the goal, I mean, they’re gonna charge a lot of money so that there’s a barrier. When playoffs start, I see this everywhere we go how much you know, the $20 tickets 120. Maybe you go maybe, but they will sell it will look good here in October. My concern is it looked good in October and 14, and 16. And to your point, by 19. It was all over with and everybody went away again, Kansas City’s experiencing that now. Right? I don’t know where St. Louis St. Louis has been built. So they can survive Cincinnati, they’re all rushing back in one moment, because they didn’t hate their own or they have 30 years of that. But Cincinnati is a blueprint for like, they’ll come instantly. If you win isn’t instant here. There’s more of a barrier here than there are in other places. I wonder where that barrier is. And then the point to your point two years from now, what what does it look like when it’s mature? That’s what I that’s what I want to say,

Dave Sheinin  24:21

if it’s allowed to mature, right? I mean, if you’re just building a low payroll, if you just want to be the Tampa Bay Rays, and try to go cheap, and when you know, there’s a real thin margin of error right there. This need this should you know back in the 90s this was an upper quartile payroll right. This was consistently a top five top eight payroll right. And and I mean, that’s what I mean. That’s what this should be again, I mean, or at least in the middle of the pack, they’ve cried small market.

Nestor Aparicio  24:53

I know. I know that people believe it. You believe it. We’re never gonna draw three men. I mean, literally, there’s a mindset about that. that, that that says we can’t be the Yankees or we, I don’t know, we we could have been the Cardinals the last 30 years with the Red Sox, if it was well managed, it was never well managed.

Mike Ricigliano  25:10


Well, I mean, I, at least as a fan, you know, I have confidence that this is built for the long term now. So, you know,

Nestor Aparicio  25:19

the core, there’s so many decisions to make, though. And who’s making them that other than a lie? It’s about when real decisions Dave, when it’s when it’s in the wallet? Well, we’re gonna buy a picture two weeks from now and it’s going to cost X amount against payroll, you double your payroll next year. Yeah, whatever. Right? Yeah. Are you willing? Or are you not and what prospects and you can always say, well, we love Colin cows, we’re not gonna give him away. We’re not we’re not gonna give away. You know, they wanted they want a holiday. We’re not. They’ve played that game for a long time. And I’m not as demanding as you are, like, I have lowered my I’m Stockholm Syndrome tier. And you know, I don’t feel like they have to make a deal. No flick, they have to win the World Series this year. I don’t feel like they even have to make a full effort because I am bought in on Oh, you got all these young guys bring them up. I think people already calling me Mike Rosenfeld, our Chief Digital Officer, I spanked them this week in the air. It’s like, it’s time we extend rutschman. I’m like, I don’t know when the right time is. But I would say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, if I’m John, I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, you know, but this is the battle cry of the fans now is they want to see something that looks like commitment. And I’m like, Oh, God, they want all these this feels like give it to me. And that’s done the nasty one. You know, I mean, I’m not the nice guy here with them.

Dave Sheinin  26:34

I mean, the problem, though, is that, of course, you and you know, this is is, you know, keeping a core together. You get them for six years. I mean, that’s it, you know, and, and you’re not going to be able to keep everybody. I mean, look at the turnover. The Tampa Bay Rays are held up as this, you know, model of efficiency. And, I mean, but they lose their players, you know, all the time, or they take, they roll the dice and sign them as 19 year olds to 15 year contracts, you know, so like, we would

Nestor Aparicio  27:07

have Jonathan scope or Chris Davis, that kind of thing. Yeah.


Dave Sheinin  27:11

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Davis.

Nestor Aparicio  27:14

Well, there’s your cautionary tale. That’s exactly right. And I already said Albert Bell, but that was a whole generation ago.

Dave Sheinin  27:21

I mean, that’s, that is that’s the risk, right? That you sign a Chris Davis for 25 million a year for seven years and you’re stuck with him once he’s, he stops producing. And so you know, I mean, with the rutschman I mean, the time to have wrapped him up what was a year ago, before he becomes an all star and then you get them cheap. And you do a 10 year deal. Like some of the the Braves are masters of this. The Braves have Akuna Ozzie albies Riley Adams, they have all these dudes locked up in tenure deals that bought out their zero to three years and their arbitration years and gave them a gazillion dollars. That’s looks like a lot. But once they hit free agency age, you’ve got them on the cheap for the prime years of their career. 25 point 6.7 That’s that’s what I think the Orioles should be looking at.

Nestor Aparicio  28:12


Well, we talked about this the Lamar Athan you know the dread of all of that in the offseason and what we went through with I just That was brutal. I don’t want that for the Orioles. But I also don’t want Chris Davis for the Orioles. Right. I mean, therein lies the balance of sign rutschman Extend rutschman I want to see it. I want to see a pitcher here by the end of the month. Well at any no i

Dave Sheinin  28:35

There’s a couple of things with the Davis deal that makes it an anomaly. It was not a GM deal. It was an ownership deal. It there were warning signs everywhere. The GM at the time did not want to do that deal. The owner did that deal. And it blew up on them. There were warning signs. Chris Davis was an older dude like he was not 21 years old he was 28 or 29 I think their medical

Nestor Aparicio  28:59

people also knew that he had some issues in regard to when he was using a drug or when he was and how it helped him perform. I mean, so

Dave Sheinin  29:06

you know, so I wouldn’t use that as a as a cautionary tale for what I’m talking about which is locking up young dudes who are rookies or second year players and locking them up through their free agency years because you the player gets the guarantee of this


Nestor Aparicio  29:24

100 million dollars right now yes for whatever six eight or whatever years whatever the number would be right? Right. Does that make you happier? Isn’t does that make you buy an orange club? I’m seriously does that make you invest back I don’t know doesn’t make me more or less of an Oreo if it really doesn’t, or make me more inclined to go it just makes their payroll heavier. And it makes this mindset that he’s going to be your 2029

Mike Ricigliano  29:49

Well just have one guy like that would be I think would be I think it’d be a lot of fire for me as a fan. To see them do it with one guy because they’ve let some other guys mature. Though other guys go by the wayside, so, so yeah, I’d like to see that. And I think that’s the right guy to do it with to.

Dave Sheinin  30:07

You know, I’ll tell you what the what the cautionary tale is honest to god is, you know, I mean, I’m at the Washington Post I mean look at what’s happened with the Nationals. They let Bryce Harper and Anthony Rendon walk away and back to back years, right in the case of Red Dawn, maybe it wasn’t such a bad move given what’s happened since Bryce Harper, you know, is an MVP type of player. They gave their money to Stephen Strasburg. Right? Who has not pitched since they since he got you know, $200 million. Like he is not pitch at the time,

Nestor Aparicio  30:40


it didn’t seem like something that you would write about as a columnist and say, How dare they, I mean, felt like well, stress bringing that gotta have that guy, right. And pitching changed so much in the last 10 years to as far as how we want to use pitchers, what starters and closers and innings and X. I mean, I hear Palmer every night I mean, the air of giving any pitcher that kind of money or thinking you’re gonna have a horse anymore. Let somebody else sign him. Let the Yankees have let the dot let somebody else do that.

Dave Sheinin  31:07

Unless he can also hit you 40 home runs like show Hey guys gonna get 500 million. He’s gonna blow it up. He might get 600 million that contract so why can’t

Nestor Aparicio  31:18

the Oriole sign him

Mike Ricigliano  31:20

and his name is Otani. See, this is where I get this is where I


Nestor Aparicio  31:25

this is where I get flippant. Where and compare baseball, to hockey, basketball football, where if you see free agent named Lamar Jackson, you’d say well, there’s no team that wouldn’t sign him or a basketball player. It was really available if a player is really available that 10 Leone just wouldn’t want to pay it. You know what I mean? That there’s no pay issue there. That discrepancy and payroll is such the original sin of baseball, right? Like it’s Garden of Eden stuff for me. But the notion that the best player available is out there. And this goes back to Peter running the team when the best player was to share, hey, we can’t afford that when the best player was Clemens can’t afford that. Because once Oh 203 happened and Peter started putting 25 50 million of his own money in on David Ziggy and Conan. We never were in on the best player again. We were just never, you know, at that point, it’s well, you know, that’s enough money for Messina that we you know, we can’t afford we were small market. You know, we’re all of that, that when the best players out there and we can all look at Otani and say, oh my god if the Orioles invested in not that he would want to come here, but let’s just say he’s Mickey Mantle. But let’s the fact that we’re not even allowed to even talk about that is not good for the sport. I would just say that we were not allowed to talk about him. He’s only allowed to play somewhere else. That’s bad. I think that’s bad. I really believe that.

Mike Ricigliano  32:44

Couldn’t we win? We be the team that could afford him now because we don’t have any expense scenes

Nestor Aparicio  32:49

talk yeah,

Dave Sheinin  32:52


I think I think it’s more it’s almost more philosophy than anything else. I mean, I think in baseball history is shown that one player consuming like 50% of a payroll is a recipe for disaster. I mean just name a team. The NFL the NFL is different in a way. NFL is different in a way but because of the salary cap

Nestor Aparicio  33:13

and everything percent Oh, we got crab cake. Oh mercy. Okay. Are you Are we done with sports? Yeah,

Dave Sheinin  33:20

were you born with it man? Yeah, yeah, go back to music of any day.

Nestor Aparicio  33:24

So like me when I go out PPM sports guy. Yeah. People to come to talk to me about sports. I’m like, Man, I’ll talk about my plants my cat and whether whether we’re going to see the Northern Lights tonight. Yes. crabcake Coco’s, but I do love sports. We all love sports here, but we’re sold out on sports. What can


Mike Ricigliano  33:41

I just say before we go Fito Sox

Dave Sheinin  33:46

game. Seto does so here’s

Nestor Aparicio  33:50

the deal about coming to cocoas subliminally it’s peach cake season and I was looking for a place where I could get peach cake on the way to getting a crab cake today. I didn’t realize that till I woke up this morning. I thought I’m driving right past Fenwick. I’m gonna bring some peach cake for Marcel 30 years. I met Marcela watching Houston Oilers games 30 years ago and her mom and she’s like me and my mom. We got this little place called Coco’s Down by Down by we’re SIG Lipstadt. City. Yeah. And, and we have this famous crabcake and all these years later 9085 Right. So right there. You’re I graduated high school since since I graduated high school. Marcel has been flipping these giant crab cakes out over here. Coco’s. So here’s the thing when I this week when I needed a guest, I’m like, I’m gonna show I really want to have shine and on I want to sit with him. I don’t want him doing it from his kitschy basement with his guitars. This little man came down there were six in a neighborhood so I knew but when I say to you, you will come to Coco’s and have crabcake you’re like 30 seconds. Oh, I love that place.

Dave Sheinin  34:51


I’ll be there in a minute. Who doesn’t love this place? On the east side. So

Nestor Aparicio  34:56

we’re gonna we’re gonna hear from Marcel and her crew. She’s got some special guests here. People have worked here for a long time made these crab cakes like I’ve seen Liz and Eric slinging them back here. And they call it paradise here. She’s got margaritas, cold beer at a reasonable price that’s a Springsteen line like that when I do the like, reasonable price, and we’re gonna be talking about the legendary Coco’s crab cake. It’s a Maryland crab cake tour. shine it. You get lucky, no lottery scratch off. We’re saying your wife already claimed one. I hope she won. Because you got grandkids to feed that look just like your kids. Thank you, man. I appreciate that. Microsoft Liano is been my friend for 40 years. Shine is only been my friend for 30 years so I have seven years. If I had Marcel it’s 100 years relationship. I had a Terry 240 years of relationship. A lot of people and a lot of memories here in Lawrenceville. Let’s come on down. Enjoy yourself. We’re gonna come back talk about this crabcake I’m done. We’re done with baseball. We’re done with football.

Dave Sheinin  35:53

I’d be fine. If we were I mean, you know, I’d be fine keeping going. But

Nestor Aparicio  35:57

last thing I’m gonna leave leave you guys with this before we get to the crabcake. Are we gonna have a parade here? Do you? Are you a believer? Are you a true believer in Lamar Jackson? I take a lot of heat on what I’ve seen and what the outcome has been and what the results have been as to whether he’s really going to win or not really going to win a Super Bowl. He’s going to beat me and the Orioles. I don’t know what they are. They’re fun right now. And to your point. You think they need augmentation? Yeah, we all want them to veteran, they need stuff, right? So this year, they need stuff. But but they have resources over the next couple of years financially and otherwise, the ravens are what they are and have coaching and pedigree and row Quan Smith and all of this stuff. I want to go to bed at night believe them we’re going to win again. Our city is going to win again. And it smells as good as we sit here right now. On the 30th anniversary the all star game being here, the chances in the next five years if we’re betting on it, you could bet on anything now. They’re they’re better but are you a true believer and if you’re a believer, is it the Orioles? Are the Ravens I’m gonna that’s gonna be the tough part of the question. So go ahead Dave. I’m gonna give it to you first because you’re the expert I mean, I’m


Dave Sheinin  37:07

just gonna say no only because it’s incredibly hard to win a championship in either sport any sport you know the the Ravens let’s let’s start with them. They’re in it every year there they go into every year. You believe that they have a chance to content? I don’t buy the fat. I don’t buy this whole Lamar can’t win a championship thing. They used to say that about John Elway, right? I mean, how many guys have you heard that about over the years that went on to win a championship? I don’t buy that at all. It’s just that it just it just requires everything to work. And we’ve been spoiled here to have had to write I mean, that’s not normal. That’s not normal to have two Super Bowl championships in a what? 20 year period or whatever it

Mike Ricigliano  37:54

was. I’m a big fan. We haven’t had any Exactly.

Dave Sheinin  37:57

So I’m just gonna say no,

Nestor Aparicio  37:58


he’s got wide right. He’s got an OJ

Dave Sheinin  38:02

Yeah, so I’m just gonna I’m just gonna say no, no on them. And I’m gonna say no on the Orioles essentially for the same reason. But also, you know, just the fact that it’s the division. I mean, they might sneak into a wild car once. But you know, in this division when you’ve got the Yankees, the Red Sox, Blue Jays, and the rays year in year out are as good as anybody meant the degree of difficulty is off the charts off the chart.

Mike Ricigliano  38:31

I say I’m not gonna say

Dave Sheinin  38:33

never. But you’re telling me five years I’m gonna say no.


Mike Ricigliano  38:36

I’m gonna say Now or never for the Ravens because I just I just think the cap thing with Lamar through pleco. Right. Yeah, exactly. And and I would disagree on the Orioles. I think they are built for the long haul and they’ve done a great job with it here. If we if we’re looking at like an Astros model. Then the Astros one. Granted they were in an easier division, but Stanley cheated and they did but okay. But other than that I like I like I like our chances of a championship for the Orioles over the next three or four years. You know that? Man I feel about I

Dave Sheinin  39:14

love I would love nothing more. Yeah.

Nestor Aparicio  39:16

So I was chronicling your work amongst many others. We’ve talked about you, you and I had beers together. Dan and Fells Point when I was writing the Peter principles, right. So the Peter principles I stopped writing when Shane got cancer. And the story kind of stops. When Masson was born it stops in about oh six. Okay. And Peter was much less active in many ways after that, right? Because you’re on the beat and in Jenga cancer and 14 and I stopped writing and they were great and 14 right 14 was they were great that year. And I thought you watch this book is going to end with a parade after all Peters done. You know, I’m going to write a book about the Orioles and he’s going to have the last laugh because they could have won and 12 for 12. Certainly they could have won 14 yeah absolutely cool one right yeah right now that Kansas City believing like I’m gonna cap this books already written it’s been a principals all I got to do is now bring it to JJ Hardy and write about it never happened I never added to it I’ve really I’m releasing the Peter principles this summer I got chapter six or seven coming out this week. I have these two books here, you know on how hard it is to win. I’ll be giving these way for our 25th anniversary on the third and fourth at Drax I have I have like a couple dozen of these and maybe about 100 of these left. When they’re gone, they’re gone. I’m happy that they’re going to be free. So come on out and get them by the way if you don’t have I have

Dave Sheinin  40:33


so either way autographed I

Nestor Aparicio  40:34

really believe and I sit here right now and I’m gonna say this out loud. I haven’t said this before. I think the next parade would be the Orioles if it’s one of the two. I think the Orioles will come closer to winning a championship with this group with whatever John screws up. Would it be as long as Elias and see their contracts not up like tomorrow, right? And they’re like, this guy’s crazy. We’re just out. We’re just out and and we would never know that. We just I don’t know that we knew how upset Pat Gillick wasn’t till he was gone, right? Like you don’t know that. I’m assuming Elias is happy. I’m assuming they’re staying. I’m assuming there will be some money from all of this money once he pays off the net, like all of that, that they can win over the next two or three years before dad dies. And they have to liquidate and like whatever is gonna happen with it. They have they have more talent, they’re better positioned to win a championship over the next 36 months. Then the ravens and the Ravens think their position right. Ravens think that they

Mike Ricigliano  41:37

just six or seven other teams that are as good as the Ravens right now. I

Nestor Aparicio  41:41

like the Orioles chances of navigating October better than I like the Ravens chances and navigating January, I mean that


Dave Sheinin  41:46

baseball is much more of a crapshoot to you know, I mean, any team can win a seven game series or a five game series right? I mean, we’ve we’ve seen that we’ve seen wildcard teams all the time winning World Series. I mean, it happens almost as much as it doesn’t so yeah, I think if they get to October there is capable of anybody to win. Yeah.

Nestor Aparicio  42:07

All right. So my next book will be in order making that up there’ll be no more next books. I’m trying to get rid of the ones I got. Don’t become an author Sean it’s not that profitable. I’ve

Dave Sheinin  42:14

been an author. Yeah, it was not proper. That’s

Nestor Aparicio  42:18


why you makes rock and roll that’s why he’s doing albums in a basement.

Dave Sheinin  42:21

My book was about Robert Griffin the third so that’s

Nestor Aparicio  42:25

yeah, that did not have a hat my book my books have happy endings. That book did not Yeah, no, it did not know Yeah, they shot a Washington Post every single ya know, it’s all brought to you by the Maryland lottery, our friends. Donation 866 90 nation. I got my windows on August the eighth of last year it will be a year and I love my winters my cat loves my windows the breeze, but my wife’s been out of town. I like it hot as hell because I’m Latin. So the air conditioner hasn’t been on so I’m saving money for snow goes crabcakes Oh, brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery and our friends at window nation. So you get on at 866 90 nation. We are at Beaumont on the 20th. And then we’re back at Costas on the third. And we’re going to be at drug city on the floor celebrating 25 years and just giving away everything it’s not nailed down, including this crab cake. I’m Nestor we are WNS D back for more. We’re gonna hear the whole cocoa story and the softball crabcakes from Laura Ville next stay with us.

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