It’s been a month of unprecedented departures for the Ravens in Owings Mills in the aftermath of a devastating AFC Championship Game at home in January. Luke Jones and Nestor get ready for NFL free agency and discuss the realities of the salary cap and the needs of Eric DeCosta and the franchise as draft season approaches.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
ravens, point, draft, talking, money, play, year, lamar jackson, free agency, offseason, starters, week, deal, running, good, market, free agent, quan, football, give
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home we are wn St. am 1570, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive. This is the part of the program we tell you to set your dial. Subscribe to me out on YouTube, follow me out on the Instagram. some point we’ll get a tick tock around here at some point. Luke is going to be joining us here we’ve talked baseball, um, as my wife came by the studio early on Monday morning and said, talking rasslin on and I’m like, well, it’s March thanks for slow it’s not even the tampering period yet. For all these things. We’re gonna be having some fun in April. We’re going to be doing our Maryland crab cake tore down at fate. Lee’s on Fridays, live actually live and two of the five Luke will be joining us on their home games. We’re also gonna be back at Costas Coco’s all over town with our friends in the Maryland lottery I’ll be giving away the 10 times the cash our friends at window nation 866 90 nation reminding you that I’m getting doors this year. So I’m excited about that. My cats excited about the windows when 65 degrees outside as well. Also our friends at Jiffy Lube, multi care getting that done, and liberty pure solutions keeping my water pure and clean and delicious. And perfectly Sally nated when I shower after working out at the Planet Fitness, Luke, football is not considered a march thing, right? We should be talking about the Terps if they weren’t stinking to join up in March Madness and the wizards not winning a game in February in the capitals being sort of an also ran at this point. And like a lot of things that I used to focus on in March, right spring training was something maybe I focus more on 2030 years ago than I have in recent years. We went through we want more spring training, we want more mass and we want games on we want more all of this more Jackson holiday everything. But the thing we’ve had here is football in March. And I don’t know if we’ve ever been big buyers in free agency that it’s ever been a thing here but certainly big and getting supplemental picks we’re losing guys. But this is we’ve never hosted an AFC Championship Game pissed it away. Last comeback. Never really had a truck backup to Owings Mills and pull coaches out of the backside of it after having this kind of success. Interesting transitional period here, even here and Eric talks about the loss of Joe Ortiz and a Joe won’t be sitting there anymore. On draft night first time like in his life, that that won’t be the case. They’re going through some changes out knowing smells, aren’t they?
Luke Jones 02:28
There’s no question about it. And every offseason has that change, but it is a little more magnified when you’re coming off of an AFC AFC Championship Game loss when you were the best team in the NFL over the course of the regular season, when you lose as many talented assistant coaches as they lost, especially on the defensive side of the ball beginning with Mike McDonald, who was widely regarded as if not the best defensive coordinator in football, certainly one of the very best and that’s why he’s the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks now, but as John Harbaugh said at the combine, and I think as much as Yeah, it can be viewed as coach speak. I think you do have to embrace it, you do have to embrace change. And I think you have to view it through the lens of it’s because we want a lot of football games around. Here’s why they want our people you know, in the same way that they want our players every offseason. They want our coaches in the case of Joe Ortiz and one sad that almost said San Diego, it’s it’s amazing. The Chargers have been gone from San Diego for what five years now. And we’re still calling them San Diego but the Chargers want to Joe Ortiz. So I think you’ve had to just view it through the lens of it’s great for those individuals, they move on, you’re happy for them, you’re rooting for them other than when they’re playing the Baltimore Ravens. Uh, but it’s an opportunity for someone else. And in the same way that we’re talking about Zach or right now. We were talking about Mike McDonald in those terms. Two years ago, we were talking about wink Martindale on those terms, what, six years ago? I mean, that’s just the way this works. And I think if you’re the ravens, as we’re now just about a pawn free agency, it’s funny, you mentioned we’re not at the tampering period yet. I would beg to differ. The tampering period is actually the combine in Indianapolis, if we’re really going to be truthful about it, although it’s tampering week is what it is. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So, but I think this is still a football team that has a lot going for it. Yes, I think buckle up. It’s going to be bumpy here at the start of free agency there. They’re certainly going to lose some guys. But you know, we’ll get a resolution at least from a tag standpoint with just a matter BK this week, and the expectation is, he’s going to be tagged short of a long term deal coming at the 11th hour. But beyond that, you know, your Patrick Wayne’s gonna be gone and some other veteran players are going to be gone. And, you know, you look at key depth players like Geno stone who’ve been really valuable the last couple of years they’re going to be gone. But at the same time, still a heck of a lot of good football players on this roster. And I think we will see how this plays out in terms of who they might be able to resign, you know, they can certainly create some tap space with some restructures. But you want to be judicious with that you want to restructure with the right guys, you know, and and that’s where, if there’s something that we didn’t get, we talked about the the increase in the salary cap when we talked last week, and we’ll continue to talk about that. But you know, as much as people think about that, in terms of oh, well, you can go out, maybe you can go sign some more free agents, I think it’s still much bigger in the sense of all of your existing contracts, guys that are already on the books, it becomes easier to manage, when you have a salary cap increase, like the NFL has this year, that’s higher than expected. So that makes Lamar Jackson’s deal, a little easier to manipulate and restructure. And you can increase those numbers in the future and get yourself a little more relief. But you know, the cap continues to go up, you know, same with a mark Andrews or a row Quan Smith, so they have ways of creating space, but at the same time, and I’ll go back to what Eric, the caster said at the combine, it doesn’t mean that they’re going to be opening up the books and going shopping, you know, I think there could be a piece to go out there and get that’s why I haven’t been nearly as bullish on the idea of all the Ravens go out and get a veteran running back. Okay, you can, but at what cost and at what level of production relative to, you know, maybe targeting someone in the draft and, you know, maybe trying to bring back Gus Edwards and, you know, see him Well, Kate Mitchell is in his rehab. So, you know, there’s
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:47
just as well as much as we talk about alias, and sigma, Dell playing whatever their numbers game is, whatever their analytics, whatever the data tells them, because the data tells different people different things, right. The ravens are very reliant on that kind of information. Right. And, you know, I would think wherever the data lies in a lot of these cases is sort of the direction they wind up going in, right. Yeah, I
Luke Jones 07:16
mean, that. I mean, there’s always data. And they’re certainly viewing. I mean, let’s face it. I mean, and this isn’t even an analytics idea. This is something that’s been around for a long time, and teams of some teams have smartened up to it. And some teams subscribe to the same way the Ravens view it, but compensatory picks you already made that you made that comment at the beginning of our conversation. I mean, you know, the 8020 rule, you know, the 80% of the production for 20% of the cost. I mean, that’s, that’s an analytics minded idea right there.
Nestor J. Aparicio 07:45
But the analytics would say you don’t pay a running back, you just don’t pay running back. That’s generally, I guess, to my point, that would be a major outlier for them to say, in our system, we value a running back more at a higher level. And listen, I’ll I’ll credibly buy into that, because I’ve seen the running game not be the same after Mark Ingram, you and I have different differing opinions on him and his value and his locker room charm and whatever else. There was, and I didn’t have any relationship with Mark Ingram at all to speak about him as though he were charming or whatever. Other than the three minutes immediate time I had before the plague. But there is a point in this, we’re having a running back, the running back is better than not knowing which we spent a long time around here during lumbars period, wondering who the running back is right? Like aftermarket and grown. Her committee, this guy might be that guy might be this young guy. It’s going to be the kid from Ohio State’s going to be him. It’s going to be him. He rips his knee up. Now, what’s it going to be? I’m not advocating that they go give Derrick Henry money, although I would have advocated that they give their academy money. I don’t know how much money that is. And I’ll get chadway sling around here. You can talk about Josh Jacobs, bringing them back kind of running back in. That doesn’t feel to me the way, Eric to cost his bean counters and his analytics, people would look at it because the industry doesn’t look at it that way. But maybe in this offense, we feel like we need fat back. And we’re not going to punish him. We’re not giving him the ball 28 times in this offense. He he’s only gonna get the ball 16 times or 14 times in this offense, but he is going to run downhill and he’s gonna be what we want to Gus Edwards to be what Gus was five years ago, which is a guarantee in the fourth quarter, we got a guy. I mean, I can hear that but I don’t. I can’t make that catla First things. I used to talk there cost about this stuff all the time. For 25 years. I talked about this stuff, so I would have more insight into it. Do I know him better than anybody in the media will ever know him because I’ve known him longer. And it feels to me like once they’re in that direction. Election of counting the money versus all of that they would look at this and say it your way, they would say we’re going to draft a running back, we’re going to get the running back. We want the way we got Ray Rice to the way we got Dobbins, he fell apart. But you can look at him and say that’s the guy we wanted. We can find that with the 60s pick in the draft. Like they may say that. And that may be the way they would go. And I’d be much more inclined to think they believe that way. Because they’re so analytically based, and they wouldn’t outline give a running back money. But the way they did a middle linebacker, by the way, right? They gave ro Quan Smith money that you were like, Whoa, hold on. That’s top of class.
Luke Jones 10:38
Yeah, sure. Sure it, I keep coming back to this idea. And look, let’s be clear. There’s a wide range of outcomes between upgrading what the Ravens had at running back at the end of the season post keep Mitchell injury, and going out and paying say Quan Barkley or Derrick Henry, top of the market, or, I mean, I don’t think Henry’s getting top of the market, but he’s gonna get really big money for someone who’s an outlier in terms of how runningbacks age and you’d be betting on him continuing to defy that. I would just go back to through all the everything we just said. And look, I’m not discounting your opinions on the running back position. What did the Ravens finish in rushing this past year? Right? First, I mean, my point, that, to me continues to be an argument for why are you going to go out and spend big money on that when, in the aggregate, you know, everything you put together, and for as much as you want to talk about Mark Ingram. Keith Mitchell is an undrafted, free agent and he was averaging what eight yards per carry. Gus Edwards I get it Gus Edwards wasn’t as good this year. But prior to this year to call you automatically was five plus yards per carry. What is
Nestor J. Aparicio 11:53
the cost in my ear right now explaining it to me, Oh, coffee, out knowings mills. That’s the way he would explain it to me. And he would say we’ll draft a running back or you know, or we’re gonna get another word Mitchell. Or we can find a guy in the fifth round, who can who’s fast that we can coach up, and he might not have the value to another team because they want a big fat back. They want a guy that comes off the bus looking like Adrian Peterson. Or
Luke Jones 12:19
I’ll give you the other scenario. We weighed out that market. We let some other team go overpay. Josh Jacobs for sake one Barkley or Derrick Henry are all of them. And we’ll see how the draft plays out. And you know what it might happen that the guy that we really liked in the third round ends up not being there someone else had a late second round, right? Oh, you know what, there’s probably a good chance because go look at the free agent running back list, there’s a good chance there’s gonna be another good back, who might even after the draft might still be sitting there. And you know what, we’ll get that guy. And we’ll get way better value for him at that price at that point in the offseason than paying Derrick Henry $10 million a year on March 15th. I think they had no problem
Nestor J. Aparicio 13:01
paying Adele Beckham $13 million a year to go play Pat, you know, for the most part, right. So like, I keep going to that and saying having a horse? I wouldn’t have a problem with Derrick Henry. I don’t think that’s the direction they’re gonna go with. That’s all. Yeah,
Luke Jones 13:18
I mean, I, I just think there are ways to upgrade the running back position that don’t involve having to throw big money when you frankly, don’t have a lot of big money to throw around right now. And that’s where, you know, and this kind of brings me to what I’d like to kind of talk about more so than running backs right now. Is the offensive line. No. And we’ve spent a lot of time talking about that last week now, you know, but
Nestor J. Aparicio 13:44
were we talking about that every week? Right? We
Luke Jones 13:46
are and look, we’ve we’ve spent a lot of time focused on the Ronnie Stanley element. But let’s just let’s make the assumption Ronnie Stanley is gonna stay for another year. Yeah, they look at it and they say, You know what, with higher cap and understanding we’re picking 30th we’re not picking fourth, like when we drafted Jonathan Ogden, we’re not picking six like when we drafted Ronnie Stanley in 2016. The reality is, it’s gonna be really tough for them to find their left tackle the future, in the sense of a guy that you’re going to plug and play in week one. Now you could find that guy 30th And he might be a guy that maybe he is ready, say week eight, or maybe he is you’re starting left guard or you’re starting right tackle. And then he’s your week one left tackle in 2025. But point is, even if we’re just putting aside the idea of Ronnie Stanley, let’s say he’s going to be back in Baltimore, whether it’s on his current deal whether it’s on a pay cut, whatever. You still have Kevin Zeitler likely gone right guard, left guard John Simpson free agent. If it’s not Ronnie Stanley, are you moving moving on from Morgan Moses, which creates more modest savings, but savings nonetheless. The point is, even if you’re looking at this thing at face value and say all right, I’m gonna The hold on to my Offensive Tackles for one more year. And you know, I’m not going to, I don’t want to have four new spots on the offensive line. I don’t want four new starters, I can deal with two, but four. That’s that’s overly ambitious in terms of a team that sees itself as a contender. So from that standpoint, what do you do on a guard? And that’s where I kind of look at it. And I wrote about this at Baltimore positive.com. You can check it out right now. I kind of looked at that through the lens of if you are talking about potentially replace replacing up to four starters, which I don’t think it’s going to be for starters, I think it when it’s all said and done. One of the tackles is going to stay put, you know, whether it’s Stanley or Morgan, Moses, I have a tough time believing you’re replacing both of those guys. And Kevin Zeitler. Right guard, I just think that’s a lot of change in one offseason. So, point is, I think when you’re picking 30th, and you’re picking at the end of each round, that’s not easy in terms of finding, you know, and picking the best players, you know, it doesn’t mean that someone good won’t fall into your lap. But obviously, that’s not an enviable position from a draft standpoint, other than just the fact that means you were really good the year before. So you have that. And you have limited cap resources, you have limited money you can spend in free agency. So the point I’m trying to make here is who are the incumbents right now, who are the incumbent backups on this roster right now, that you point to that could be a starter in 2024. I look at Ben Cleveland, Ben powers a couple years ago, you know, other than being Ben’s, it’s something else that they have in common. You hope if you’re looking at it through the Ravens
Nestor J. Aparicio 16:42
list right in line and the way Jensen was in the way of you know, all the guys that I’ve ever made money had to kind of get in line I mean, if suddenly came in and played right away and or flipped around, but that you know, for the most part, these guys have had to wait their turn. I mean, you know, I mean was first round draft is different. But like being groomed to be an offensive lineman, that’s part of the thing to your point. Nobody’s coming in, you’re playing left tackle betting Ronnie Stanley, even if you don’t like Ronnie Stanley all that much. Yeah.
Luke Jones 17:12
When you’re picking 30. It’s, you know, if you’re picking fourth, okay, maybe that’s different. But when you’re picking 30. So I look at someone like Ben Cleveland, like where Ben Powers was two years ago, two years ago, at this point in time, we were talking about left guard, Ben Powers was, was regarded as a disappointment. You know, he was regarded as a guy that, you know, had started some games, but he hadn’t been great. And what did he do? He went out and had a really good 2022 season, to the point that the Denver Broncos threw a ton of money out. And the ravens are gonna get a comp pick. And you know, I mean, that’s, that’s fine. But the point is, you need Ben Cleveland to step in and be the new Kevin Zeitlin. I don’t mean he’s gonna be that good. But can he be 90% or 85%? Of what Kevin Zeitler was understanding he’s going to be cheaper, presumably assuming Kevin Zeitler is going to gotta get real money from someone. You know? If not, he might be back in Baltimore. Who knows? But, but but the point is, if you have multiple starters, you’re looking to replace in one group, how’s it not going to come from at least one incumbent backup, you know, whether it’s then Cleveland, you know, Patrick McHenry, I don’t think it’s going to be a Plan A at any spot. But well, cipher
Nestor J. Aparicio 18:28
still your best option, right against all other things mean? Odds of him coming back trying to think like, historically, if they’ve parted ways with a guy at this point, like Zeidler and brought him back, I’m just trying to think I do have an example of that.
Luke Jones 18:47
I mean, offensive lineman, I don’t know if any o lineman come to mind for the
Nestor J. Aparicio 18:52
young guys going to get paid elsewhere, right. But
Luke Jones 18:56
at the same time, I mean, you know, they’ve had gotten Chris Canty was someone they cut on the defensive line, and then brought back, you know, Brandon Carr,
Nestor J. Aparicio 19:06
some of those kind of defensive back guys a little bit, because
Luke Jones 19:10
there have been some of that, I mean, it’s not unheard of it to me, it’s just a matter of at this point, considering there was an impasse that came, and the deadline came and went as far as his contract voiding at this point, the conversation was probably to cost the same designer and his representatives go out and see what you can get, you know, and then will
Nestor J. Aparicio 19:30
will they said that to Lamar last year? Sure.
Luke Jones 19:34
I mean, that’s right I mean, that’s the thing I mean, it’s funny I I had someone when Eric asked to confirm that you know, all but confirmed that they were going to place the tag on that a BK I had someone asked me, well, will that be the exclusive or the non exclusive first of all, the non exclusive still requires any team for any player if you sign him to an offer sheet, that’s two first round picks if that team doesn’t match. So obviously it’s not exclusive, but the point was The Ravens let Lamar go out and see what his potential value could be on the opening open market, they do that with anyone. And look, that means you run the risk of losing someone who
Nestor J. Aparicio 20:10
may, in his own mind think he’s coming back here. And whatever offer he gets, you bring it back to me and we’ll we’ll figure it out. Possibly that might be the way they’re thinking. Or
Luke Jones 20:20
it might be. You know, what, Kevin Zeitler, we love him. He was really good for us three years, but that knee slash quad issue he had at the end of last year, you know, not going to need surgery on it. But is that something that’s going to age? Well, he’s going to be 34 years old. We know historically speaking, when a guard of his caliber hits this age, there tends to be more of a I’m throwing out hypotheticals. Point is, you see how it plays out. But whether we’re talking about right guard, whether we’re talking about left guard, and maybe it’s for he’s you know, Andrew Vorhees, who they drafted in the seventh round last year, remember he was the kid that tore his ACL at the Combine was probably going to be a mid round pick. And ravens drafted them in the seventh round with the idea of knowing that he wasn’t going to play this this past year. But knowing that, hey, he’s gonna miss a year. Obviously, we’re not taking them in the fourth round or the fifth round, but we’ll trade a sixth round pick to draft them in the seventh round this year, which is what they did, and you’ll see how he looks. So my point is, if you’re looking at potential potentially 344 starters, which again, I still have a tough time buying that they’re gonna have four new starters on the line, but multiple new starters. How can it not be at least one incumbent I just, I think that’s a lot to ask of your draft, your scouts and your ability to draft and what little money you might have to spend in free agency to go out there and replace that many starters. So that’s where I look at someone like Ben Cleveland, I look like it I look at Andrew Vorhees. I even look at someone like maybe and I don’t say this is a plan A but Patrick Macquarie can play five oh line spots. Maybe the solution for one spot is going to be someone you draft in the third round, but you’re projecting him not to be ready week one, maybe Patrick McHenry is the starter, week one for, you know, the first month of the season for a young guy to grow into the spot. I don’t know, the point is, you’re gonna have to rely on some of your incumbents here because I just, I can’t fathom you’re going to go out there and say, Oh, we’re gonna find three new starters, we’re gonna find four new starters on the open market and the draft. I mean, that’s just not the way you typically are going to do things. Especially if you want it to work to go well, if you want it to go well for a team that has championship aspirations. So my point is, then Cleveland better be ready to play. You know, you’re hoping Andrew Vorhees might be ready to play. You know, maybe big solid takes a big big jump after, you know, turning some heads early on in the preseason. But proving he wasn’t ready. So they have some young guys, but, you know, when when you’re talking about as much turnover as you’re looking at on the O line. That’s not easy. That’s why I keep and maybe someone would say in turn, that’s why you go get Derrick Henry. I don’t know I view it the other way where I say at much. I’m much more concerned about my O line being as good as possible. Oh, yeah, because I want to protect my $260 million quarterback. I’m way more concerned about that than going out and getting the running back that everyone recognizes their name. Luke
Nestor J. Aparicio 23:28
Jones is our duty we’ll be doing all things Owings Mills, we’re getting ready for opening day getting ready for the tampering and the pre tampering and the free agency. What do you expect to happen in regard to Queen in regard to I mean, we know stones gone I’ve talked about Zeidler a little bit but the rest of listen all the eyewash last week in Indianapolis about Bateman, Bateman, Bateman, he’s going to be great. I mean, I just this time of year with the cost and horrible they disappointed me as men in many ways. But they there’s nothing more disappointing than stopping everything to watch a press conference where everything is just nothing. I you know, and I guess hardball is probably better at his breakfast at the owners meetings later on in the month, he gets a little more freeform at that and rules and the roots of football and you know, beliefs, strong beliefs he has about the game and the way the games be played and like all of those things. But when it comes to roster, and talking about the roster this time of the year, they’re going to wind up losing a lot more they’re going to gain between now and April 25. My question what what do you expect to happen with with free agency in Iraq as you’re like, when you don’t have a lot of money and free age, we don’t have a lot of money for ag you don’t spend the day one anyway. It’s always later on. I’m fascinated to see the value of the guys as they flew out of here. Much like the coaches in the offseason, at the perception of their free agents and Patrick Queens is going to be a guy’s gonna change your defense.
Luke Jones 25:02
Yeah, I mean, I think first of all, when you have 20 plus free agents and you know, you have, you’re gonna have a little bit of cap space, but not a whole lot, especially and I’m working under the assumption that you tag Mata BK, if you signed Mata BK to a $90 million contract, you structure it in a way that his cat number for this year probably isn’t going to be that high. So you have more under that scenario. But the point is, even with that scenario, you’re not going to have you know, it’s not going to be a shopping spree. I think everyone understands that because it’s one of the more truthful things Eric said, you know, one of the few things a substance he said in his combined session, but yeah, it’s gonna be a lot of attrition. Early on, I think, you know, I think back to, you know, I think back to that 2019 offseason, you know, post 2018 where it wasn’t just Joe Flacco going out the door, but it was Terrell Suggs leaving and CJ Mosley and some other you know, Eric Weddle was released, and you go down the list. I mean, it was, it felt like a little bit like a bloodbath early on, but now they did go sign Earl Thomas. And maybe that’s an example there of why Frieden seems a little overrated because that didn’t turn out too well. But look, Queen is gonna get big money. Geno stones going to I don’t think get big money, but he’s gonna get starter money. You know, I think those are two guys that I would assume come off the board pretty quickly to guys that I’m really fascinated. You know, we’ve talked about Zeidler, because he, you know, is also in the 30. Plus, I’m really curious to see what the market looks like for Van Noy. And for cloudy and when I say that, I don’t mean that it’s going to be as soft as it was last year, where the ravens are getting those guys in, you know, in cloud use case in the second half of August. And in Vanoise case at the end of September into October.
Nestor J. Aparicio 26:48
But there’s a lot of tape that those guys can play. It is
Luke Jones 26:53
but they’re also still older. You’re also talking about individuals who I think if they were being honest, and I think cloudy has even said this at times, probably doesn’t want to go through a whole offseason. Who doesn’t want to certainly doesn’t want to be there for OTAs or doesn’t want to be there for mandatory minicamp probably doesn’t want to be there for the first three weeks of training camps. But if someone’s gonna throw them 10 million, you know, in the case of clowny, someone wants to throw him $10 million. Well, that’s that’s a different conversation or $12 million, whatever it is, I mean, he had a, you know, he was a fringe Pro Bowl kind of kind of sees in the cloud he had so I’m really curious to see what the market is for them. I’d be fascinated to know what the dialogue is with them in terms of d’acosta talking to one of those guys. I think, in an ideal world that’s also grounded in some semblance of reality. You’d love to bring one of those guys back. I think there’s the reality of where they are, even with OA haven’t taken a step forward away was better this past year than he was the year before that but still not this stud slam dunk, you know, future 10 year starter that that you know, you see potential, but you still want to see more of that come to fruition with a Jabo being such a question market best at this point with another injury plague season with Octavius Robinson doing some nice things as a rookie, but still, you know, a raw prospect. I think you’d love love to bring back one of clowny or van Noy. But what’s that look like? What is the dialogue look like? is, you know, did Eric de Costa have some dialogue with Davey on clowny and his rap and say, Look, we did this with with Justin Houston a couple of years where, you know, we let him go out and you know, basically chill over the course of the offseason, we kept you know, we kept in touch. We kept in touch if there were other teams sniffing around him. And we work something out. Now the difference is clowny had a much better year. This past year, then Houston did in his time in Baltimore, any of those years. But is there something you know, do you have a handshake agreement with Davey on clowny? Where he says, Look, man, I don’t I don’t have any interest being here in April and May like, I’m a pro, you saw that this past year, I’ll be ready for the season. But not coming to mini camp, you know if that’s what? So? Is there a scenario where you say, Keep in touch?
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:20
That cracks me up all the way. But that is but it’s so true. I’m
Luke Jones 29:23
just it’s reality, right? I mean, for older players, I mean, it really is. I mean, look, I mean, we saw this a decade ago with $100 million
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:32
in the bank, he wants to go hang out in April in May and do his own thing. And Florida wherever he lives. That’s just that’s part of having $100 million in the bank saying I don’t want to come to Baltimore in April and run around and talk to media people in sweat. And with a bunch of kids. I just you know, or that’s like football and often I’ll be I love being in the building. And I like those guys. I’m happy to come up here and sweat with them if you got to pay me. Yeah. And to be clear,
Luke Jones 29:55
I’m not I don’t want to make these I’m not assuming or saying that I know. OG Davey on clowny feels that way. I’m using that as an example. And yeah, he’s kind of been one of those guys who some offseasons. We’ve seen this, he signed a little bit later and certainly did with the Ravens this past year. But I’m going back to free agency. Now, I’m kind of getting ahead of myself here. But I’m curious to see what the market looks like for those guys. Certainly, there’s going to be more demand, to your point, go watch the tape. Those guys were really good for them. But is there a scenario where you can make the money work, and it makes sense that you can bring one of those guys back? You know, two, I think that’s unrealistic. I mean, they both those guys played to well, for someone not to want to pay at least one of those guys, and then you’re left with the other guy, potentially. But, you know, what’s that look like? I mean, you know, beyond some of those names I just mentioned, I mean, you know, I’m not sure no one’s given John Simpson day one free agent money. You know, I mean, John Simpson might be back, you know, so you have a lot of free agents like that. I mean, back home, he backups in the weird scenario where, you know, they’re gonna have to, they’re gonna be cutting him, it’s gonna be a post June 1, they’re gonna spread the money out. You know, I don’t think that comes going to be back. You know, if you’re asking me to predict, do I think some team gives him some money? You know, is he gonna get 15 million again? No, but could some team give him eight with incentives, and that’s more than the ravens are willing to give them at this point, given where they are, and give him what they saw from him? Probably, you know, so So I think you’re gonna have some second and third tier guys that are still going to do okay for themselves. But but you know, I mean, queen right off the bat, big money. You know, and some of those other guys I mentioned, I mean, someone might give Jadeveon Clowney two years, 25 million? I don’t know, you know, I mean, you have to see what it is, if that’s what he’s gonna get, I doubt the ravens are going to be the ones to give them that. So, you know, I think for the ravens, it’s going to be patience, it’s going to be a lot of attrition, it’s going to be a lot of a lot of hand wringing a lot of a lot of, you know, a gripping, gripping the the arms of the chair, so to speak, to say, Oh, this is not going well. But we, the Ravens have been in this position before the coaching staff, you know, that part of the conversation? Okay, you know, that’s tough that the number of assistants they lost, they’ve had, they’ve had off seasons, or they’ve lost a lot of free agents. I mean, that’s, that’s not going to be anything new. But when you’re in the midst of it when you’re in the middle of it. Well, also, when you’re this close to the Super Bowl to I was just gonna say coming off of losing in the way that they did. Yeah, it’s tough. And that’s not to say that they’re doomed. You know, that’s not to say that they’re not going to be a serious contender in 2024. Because I still think they will be when it’s all said and done. But buckle up. It feels like this is gonna be a bumpy couple of weeks. At the same time. Is there one move out there to be made? You know, is there one veteran lineman, you know, let’s say it’s not Kevin Zeitler. But the money you were willing to pay him goes to someone else that you bring in to play guard or maybe one of the tackle spots, and then you move on from one of the incumbents maybe, you know, maybe it plays out that way. But I think, as is typically the case, and you know, this isn’t my first rodeo covering a Ravens offseason. I think patience is going to be the word. And I think, you know, in in d’acosta, you trust at this point, I mean, that’s not to say that he’s infallible or not to say that they’re going to make every perfect move, or they’re not going to have some concerns with the roster. I think when you have a marquee quarterback making marquee money, every team has weaknesses. I mean, the chiefs were talking about their wide receivers all year, and they still won the Super Bowl. So it’s just a reminder of, you’re going to have some flaws, and there’s there there are going to be more flaws on this roster than there was a year ago. But you hope with your superstars that you have starting with Lamar Jackson and going on down the list row Quan Smith, headlining the defense Kayo Hamilton headlining the defense, that you’re still going to be okay, when it’s all said and done. And I think the Ravens will be, but I don’t think these next couple of weeks are going to be when Ravens fans are feeling the best about their team, as they will at any point in 2024. And that’s typically the case for the Baltimore Ravens, and
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:14
no weird cuts coming. No, we I mean, Stanley and Humphrey are the two guys making a lot of money that would be banged around a little bit, but, um, you know, there’s no chance they’re going to bring the wide receiver back, right.
Luke Jones 34:30
I mean, well, with Beckham, the way that deal was structured, it would have to be an extension because the way that they restructured that deal to basically get rid of the Void years, his cap number next year or his salary next year, I can’t remember what it is off the top of my head. It’s an astronomical it’s a quarterback number, like that. So no, like that was meant to be like, Oh, this is still going to be either an extension or you’re going to be released. But you mentioned getting the mark At what if
Nestor J. Aparicio 35:00
he hits the I mean, they already gave him 5 million more in a year than anybody would have given me. Like if there was I don’t know where the bidding on him was to, to give him money. That kind of money the Ravens did as flowers for Lamar Jackson to come and sign. I mean, it was perceived as such, at least at that time. i A year later, it’s exactly what maybe you and I thought it was the morning after it happened. It wasn’t, Oh, this guy’s gonna catch 90 balls. Now he’s probably gonna catch 28 balls. I mean, like, in this offense. And I asked that question in the morning after. And I still say like, but who signs him? You know, what? This? Does he add more value to the Ravens than he does anybody else because he did last year.
Luke Jones 35:46
I mean, I, I would say at talking about this in terms of being an advocate for him being signed by someone, he did prove he could stay relatively healthy. Now. He wore down if you look at the production late in the year when he wasn’t putting up big numbers, while Isaiah likely was getting targets, and ze flowers was getting targets. So it’s not as though you know, their passing game was very productive late in the season. You know, so, but I think he is someone who still flashes ability. He did that. You know, he had that month, month long stretch. What was it in November where he did play at a pretty high level. And he did show he was healthier than he had been the previous couple years. I’m guessing he’s still gonna get some money on the market now. Does that mean I think the Raven should resign him? No. But I think 35 balls I
Nestor J. Aparicio 36:38
said 28. I was I was sure a few. But I don’t do the day they signed him. I could probably said something really flippant? Like, what’s the over under one? How many balls he’s going to catch? Oh, my God. Like I said, when I said that, and I would have bet the under. And I would have said 27 flippantly, you know, he caught 35 passes in 17 football games.
Luke Jones 37:01
Yeah, I mean, I look, and you weren’t the only one. I mean, that was that deal was it was panned around the league. I mean, we people had flat out defended it by saying that it was basically the Lamar Jackson tax to get a deal done. I mean, and hey, if it was something that that was an olive branch, and it got you to a point where you got to deal across the finish line, and it was worth it, right. I mean, there’s really even a deal like that. There’s really no such thing as a bad one year deal. And we say that all the time about minor league contracts in baseball, there’s really no such thing as a truly awful one year deal. Unless it’s someone that brings shame to the organization or something like that, you know, like Aaron Rodgers. I’m talking about, like, criminal even more criminal stuff, but I digress. But, but yeah, I mean, it’s, you know, what that comes going again. I mean, no one’s gonna pay him the first day of free agency. I mean, again, he’s gonna be one of those second, third tier, fourth tier kind of receivers. And, you know, look, is it impossible? Is there some scenario where he’s back? Sure. I every sense I got was, he was good in the locker room. I think his teammates really liked him. And I don’t just mean the other wide receivers. I don’t just mean Lamar Jackson. I mean, like, defensive guys like
Nestor J. Aparicio 38:16
three and a half million dollar wide. That’s the question I would ask Eric to cost if we were having our usual relationship we had the first 30 years like i Where are you on this that we’re gonna pass Matt You know, we really liked him man. Like what you like nobody’s gonna sign him nobody’s giving him money. We were gonna get him for 3 million I just
Luke Jones 38:36
think, you know, I think the money that you gave Nelson Aguilar needed to go to either him or Beckham fair. And I don’t think and you’ve already paid Aguilar. So and think about this. Let’s just look at this pragmatically, let’s take the Ravens at face value for what how they’ve talked up Rashad Bateman. And, by the way, I think there’s some merit to that. I’m not saying it’s going to come to fruition, but I think there is belief in that. And I think there if you watch the tape, you see that the guy is separated, you see that he runs good routes. You saw a number of occasions where he was open and Lamar Jackson would overthrow the football. They for whatever reason, those two just disconnect lack of chemistry, whatever. But anyway, I digress. But the point is, you can’t talk him up and then bring back Aguilar and Odell Beckham and say you’re running it back then. How’s that going to work? You know what I mean? So I think there is to me 35 balls to I just want to get his Florida here. Right. There’s more a sense to me of Okay. Aguilar is the guy that you’re bringing back to help the floor right to make sure that okay, if Bateman you know if it’s another year where it’s up and down and all that ze flowers is your number one guy. You’ve got pavement who has upside. Aguilar gives you a higher floor and you know what, then you’re probably looking to draft a receiver not in the first round, but second round, third round, fourth round. Like Aguilar guy. I bet you hope. Yeah.
Nestor J. Aparicio 40:04
Like I said, they made their decision that they they really like him. And there’s a guy that’s bounced around place to place and had a high ceiling in Philadelphia and like, whatever. You know, he’s, he’s a Prashad Perriman. I’m trying to think Bateman, these guys that haven’t worked out, he’s the guy that’s figured it out nine years into his career, right?
Luke Jones 40:27
I mean, he’s the kind of guy that look, if he’s a starting wide receiver, that’s a problem. If he’s your number three, it’s fine, but it’s not great. He’s best as your number four wide receiver, you know, if he’s your guy that, you know, he’s on the field for 25 plays, you know, he’s gonna run good routes, he’s going to throw it throw his body in there and block when he needs to, you know, he’s gonna make some plays for you here in their professional plays for the National. He’s fine. But that’s not what when he was drafted way back when that’s not what he was drafted to be. But hey, the Ravens didn’t draft him. So like they view him through a different lens. So I suspect and I don’t know this for sure. But I suspect because the Ravens have done this with a number of players where they’ve, you know, they’re not like deliberate about it unnecessarily. But they might have two guys that they value similarly. And you know, what, they put an offer out there, and whichever guy takes it first. That’s their guy. And then the other guy, they say, We love you, you know, we’ll keep in touch with you this offseason. You know, we’ll see what happens. We’ll check in with it with you. But, you know, at this point in time, we can’t commit to bringing you back. I suspect, Aguilar getting that money when he did. And that can be in where he is contractually at this point. I’m guessing it was one or the other. And, look, things can always change. Someone gets hurt in OTAs or anything like that. Not that I’m assuming Beckham is going definitely going to be a free agent at that point. But you know, with any player you check in, but you kind of get to a point where you say one or the other. I mean, I I think was it the story famously, post 2011 lockout I, wasn’t it. The Ravens put the same offer out for Ben Grubbs and Marshall, Jana and Jana took it and Ben Grubbs got more money with what the saints I guess it was I think I could be wrong on that, that 13 years ago, hard to believe it doesn’t feel like that long ago. But the point is, you assess players you put a value on them. And yeah, there’s wiggle room and sometimes you can adjust
Nestor J. Aparicio 42:29
teams on Smith and Patrick queen right off the bat, right like they picked me.
Luke Jones 42:32
Well, I mean, they did but but that was they knew ro Quan was better when they acquired that’s why they acquired him. Part of the reason why they acquired ro Quan Smith is that Patrick queen to that point in his career hadn’t lived up to being what they really truly wanted him to be. Now, to his credit, he improved and got better. And being next to row Quan Smith really helped him in the same way that it helped Edie Hartwell playing this next Ray Lewis and Bart Scott and go down the list of so many linebackers over the years. But you know, there was a case of you prioritize one guy with the understanding that yeah, that other guy barring something really weird and injury, a softer than expected market, maybe sign him to a one year deal or something like that. And those those scenarios happen every once in a while. But for the most part, you do that, you know, you’re letting the other guy go. And I you know, I think with Beckham, you know, when they resigned Aguilar To me that was waving bye bye to Odell Beckham. Maybe I’m wrong. Yeah, wouldn’t be the first time but I’m guessing he’ll he’ll get a little more he’ll get more money somewhere else than what the Ravens would have paid him for this year. How much that is I don’t think it’d be $15 million again. But I think some team will say hey, you know what, little more of a pass heavier offense, you know, a little more volume. Now. Well, this guy was healthy. He still flashed, look how he played in this game, that game and that game, you know, we’ll pay him this to be our number three receiver and work out of the slot and help us out. So
Nestor J. Aparicio 44:02
Browns bring him back? Yeah,
Luke Jones 44:04
I mean, I’ve seen a couple people in passing mentioned a team like Kansas City, you know, someone like him, where, you know, as you’re number two or number three receiver I mean, you know, and you have cap space, which the Chiefs don’t have cap space, and maybe it’s a bad example, but point is I think Odell Beckham is gonna be playing elsewhere next year and I think to me the Aguilar deal I don’t see why you resign both those guys I think you’re resigning one or the other and then to me you’re looking to bring in someone via the draft just probably not in the first round again it would be my prediction last
Nestor J. Aparicio 44:36
little piece for you anything in free agency that you’re looking for quarterbacks this that big pieces big you know the next big moving part will be whoever gets what and signs the New Deal and but there’s always something a little shocking that happens around free agency. Yeah,
Luke Jones 44:55
I mean, I think it’s fasten I mean, obviously it’s doesn’t pertain to the Ravens whatsoever, but it might endure directly I mean, for me I’m I’m curious what does Pittsburgh do? Right? Is picket are they going to go down that road another year with picket? Or yeah, Russell Wilson could be had I don’t think they’re going to financially be and Kirk Cousins in the Kirk Cousins conversation but you know you’ve got some interesting quarterbacks I mean Baker Mayfield, although it sounds like Tampa Bay wants to resign him. You know,
Nestor J. Aparicio 45:25
we talked about here last year was who was going to be our quarterback. Right. Right.
Luke Jones 45:29
Right. Right, literally, even if it was, you know, I continue to work under the assumption it was gonna be Lamar, but it was still like, Okay, is it going to be Lamar, but you’re drafting a quarterback wondering if Lamar is going to be one year and then gone, you know, under the tag. But, you know, I think that’s interesting. And I’ll do this because it does type pertain to the Ravens a little more, just because I’m not a big advocate for it. I am interested to see what the runningback market looks like. I mean, let’s face it, say Quan Barkley tagged not signed long term. After this past year, Josh Jacobs was tagged, not signed long term gonna hit the market, presumably, Tony Pollard. Derrick Henry wasn’t tagged last year, but you know, he’s still productive. Let me be clear, I, I don’t want anyone listening to me the last, you know, the last several weeks talking about running back to think I hate Derrick Henry far from it. I just don’t love the idea of giving Derrick Henry Henry big money for what he’s done in the past and trying to project what he’s going to do in the future, given his age. And, and the, and the, you know, how many miles are on those tires at this point? So, you know, I am interested to see what that market looks like, because I just named a few guys, there are some others, you know, there was Austin Eckler, go down the list. It’s why I said if you’re the ravens, if you want to, if you’re hell bent on a veteran back, wait this out, because there’s probably going to be a pretty decent back available, I’d say even post draft that’s going to be sitting there on the market, way cheaper than signing one on March 15. So, you know, that’s what I kind of look at this thing. And I am curious to see what that looks like, on the heels of so much dialogue last year. And JK Dobbins who by the way is running again, with good to see him. You know, it certainly he’s gonna he, he’s going to be in the category of beggars can’t be choosers, whoever does sign him, whether it’s the Ravens on a flyer or someone else. But you know, there are a lot of running backs out there. So what does that market look like? Because that is something that I think the ravens, if they’re patient, and they wait it out? Well, I prefer the go in the draft route. It’s also not a very deep draft and running backs. So maybe you can sign a quality back. Like I’m on a marking grim deal, like when the Ravens did that. That wasn’t lucrative. They gave him a little bit of real money, but not a whole lot. And hey, it worked out great for a year. So you know, I, I am curious, because there is just so much volume at that position that’s about to hit the market. And I just find it fascinating all these teams that wanted to tag their guy, they didn’t want them to get away but you notice none of them want to marry their guy long term. And it just again, it speaks to running backs, draft them. If they’re great, tag them for a year and then see where you are. And yeah, I think you’re seeing that play out once again this offseason.
Nestor J. Aparicio 48:14
All right. He is Luke Jones. I am Nestor Aparicio. We’re putting the Maryland crabcake tour back out on the road. Again, we’re doing 10 times to cash with our friends we’re gonna be a fade Lee’s on opening day or not opening day on Fridays. Excuse me, I don’t know where we’re going to be on opening day. At the ballpark. I know that later on in the month we’re going to be taking the Maryland crabcakes we’re back out on the road if you’d love the cup, the Super Bowl tradition and hopefully helping all this charities community organizations out there. It was a big big February but we’re in for a an interesting March here as we get ready for opening day in March we get ready for the really this this free agency period for football and March Madness and prix star starts for hockey and basketball playoffs. It’s good sports time of the year when it gets to be 65 degrees and I can walk out the door without my jacket on feels nice. I am Nestor we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore. We never stopped talking well football off season in Baltimore positive
