Longtime sports media executive and Baltimorean David Katz comes home to offer Nestor his thoughts on the Lamar Jackson timeline and many options of the franchise to make its best play.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
lamar, deal, ravens, game, quarterback, play, baltimore, david katz, years, money, week, people, friends, cincinnati, wide receivers, lamar jackson, team, tom glavine, put, afc
Nestor Aparicio 00:00
What about W and S? T Towson Baltimore and Baltimore positive you’re positively into the big game season we’re gonna be doing the Maryland crabcake tour out of state fair on Friday I had a handful the holiday cast drops. I have a couple of ravens scratch offs left over to will give all these way to make room for the new wishbone and the 50th anniversary for the Maryland lottery. It’s also brought to you by our friends at window nation, I just happen to be wearing the shirt 866 90 nation you buy two you get two free and you get 0% financing. I wish I knew about this deal. I didn’t get 0% financing because I bought back in August. But if you buy now buy to get you free and 0% financing for five years 866 And 90 nation and crabcakes of state fair with friends. This guy you know he is a comer to winter that crab cakes with me but he had a lot of crab cakes in his childhood. He’s been gallivanting all over this year, country and time zones time traveling, sort of like Webster did back in the ABA back in the day. He is now in Miami via Los Angeles. His heart and home are in Pikesville in Owings Mills here in Baltimore, longtime Yahoo Fox executive David cats these cats man do out on the social media thing. Cats for me to get started I got thrown off Twitter that six weeks ago I wrote a blog about Lamar Jackson and his potty mouth and the next morning I was completely thrown off at Twitter suspended permanently It was what all the journalists were gonna throw so I haven’t been on so when I say cats man do I have been on the WNS T Twitter but and you know into things like that. But how are you it’s been a couple of months I I just haven’t seen your daily day to day thing the way I used to when the Kathmandu was doing to do that, that you do. First of all unnecessary. You’re acting like I’m soft like I don’t make it to Baltimore in the winter. I go to Baltimore in the winter I went to the Carolina game. I’ll go to one or two games in Baltimore every winter just to make sure I can still put on a winter coat bring me Stone crabs so you know I mean I I get the stigma that I’m a Maryland crab guy that’s all NO NO NO NO NO NO snow crabs are good I need those crabs are good but you know the power rankings is still Maryland Blue Crab at the top Stone crabs. King Crabs
David Katz 02:22
don’t it’s just like it’s sort of like that desert you see and you’re looking at it you’re like nah, I mean I think it looks like a little dry. It looks like that icing is not going to be what I want. And I just can’t eat all you can’t have it all. Alright, well, it having it all. You are a life a raving fan. And as well as a journalist at the sports fan live. And we’ll get into all of the things that you do and all the Superbowl traveling you’ve done in must crossing paths and you being here with your A lot of times with your family, your dad to see ravens games, but the Lamar thing, and your fandom, and I love having people like you because in the old days, I would take phone calls, no offense to people with phone calls, they do that over honestly, you can call all you want over there. I hear John Angeles called in last week.
Nestor Aparicio 03:06
I liked the sophistication of where you come from from the industry, last 25 years in the industry doing all this, but you were your purple heart, out on your sleeve everywhere you go on the internet. And I think your understanding of contracts and understanding of salary cap and understanding of draft picks and understanding of what it means to represent yourself in this whole thing. And you’ve negotiated contracts at a very high level in your your position at Fox. What do you make of all of this? Like when you get together with friends? What do you tell them about what you think is going to happen with Lamar Jackson?
David Katz 03:42
Well, first of all, and that’s through the process so far, and we haven’t even begun the next year of This is exhausting. And it is dominating all of my group chats with all my friends, both Baltimore friends and non Baltimore friends. This is the topic of conversation. You got to give. And to unpack a little bit you got to give management credit. They have kept this very quiet. They we don’t know really what’s been offered. We we think we know, we don’t know what’s been offered. But I can tell you this from a procedural standpoint, the tough thing for Eric to cost is he is only allowed to speak with Lamar about his contract when when Lamar has made himself, the agent effectively for himself. That means Eric cannot speak to other people cannot say Oh, while you’re playing, I’ll talk to your mom or I’ll talk to the lawyer who’s who’s advising you in the background. You are not able to speak to anyone but Lamar. And imagine having those conversations where you have to explain to him, we love you. We support you. We built our offense around you. You’re the most important athlete in this building, and maybe you know in the state of Maryland. But in order to form a team that can compete that can protect you on the line that can do all the things we need to do catch your passes. This is how which we can afford. And here’s where the market will bear and you have a situation where they keep coming saying, we expect to get what Shawn had. That’s the high watermark. And I don’t know if you saw the Maurice Smith’s comments on an interview that he did on the pivot lately.
Nestor Aparicio 05:15
Please tell me because I did not see the quotes. Go ahead, you can tell that
David Katz 05:18
he is saying we had an opportunity to change the whole way that this quarterback situation and candidly for other top players goes, and it should go to fully guaranteed contracts. We had the water the dam broken with the Shaun Watson. And we’ve had multiple opportunities since then to stay there. And we haven’t players have accepted non guaranteed deals. Again, I
Nestor Aparicio 05:46
don’t want to be interrupted because I want to let you go. But I’ll just say this as a personal experience of mine, this really happened to me. Back when I was a real meeting member. I was at an all star game. And I want to say it was 99 2000 2001 and it was an all star game year when Messina was not in the All Star game. But Tom Glavine was, and I knew Tom glad and I know Tom clap through my years of doing this for a living, right. Tom Glavine was doing my show. And he said to me, what’s going on with Messina? And I’m like, he said, Dude, he’s the best pitcher in the sport. He can’t take a preferred deal with Peter Angelos. Peter. Peter was trying to take him out and Little Italy and make a deal with him, you know, over Boccaccio right back into whatever was and Tom Glavine pulled me up as a journalist and said, You got to talk to Messina, he can’t, this is a union issue, like, all of us are going to be up for the next deal. And dude, I was 30 years old at the time, maybe not even 30. I mean, to be really honest with you, maybe this happened in 95 or 96, or 97. Now that I’m thinking about it, because Messina did take a preferred deal. Messina did take a friends and family deal with Peter. And then at the end, Peter wanted another one is that, you know, as I wrote about the Peter principles, but that was 23 years ago in baseball, where I found myself in the Oh, no, you’re not given a hometown though. You’re good Erickson, nice guy and all that. But we don’t give discounts here. Because we’re looking out for each other. It’s a brotherhood, right? And I just wanted to speak to that, that that is very, very much at play. There is a there’s an internal pressure when you’re the best of the best to get the most money. And we’re saying that Oh, Manny Machado here. Eight years ago, seven, eight years ago, right, literally
David Katz 07:32
100% When you hear JKS comments after the game, you hear Kalia says comments after the game. They were not critical of Lamar, they wished Lamar was there. And they may have had frustration. He wasn’t out there. But you don’t get the sense that they were critical of him pushing economically for as much as he can get and or for changing the structure of these deals and making them more of a guaranteed structure. I think he has a lot of support among the player community for that. And I can’t imagine the pressure he’s getting from outside interests, who are sitting there saying Lamar get
Nestor Aparicio 08:05
the money, right? It’s 140 million, you just take the money, right? Like just take the money, right?
David Katz 08:10
I think it’s the other way, are they getting Lamar, make sure it’s guaranteed? I think he’s getting pressure from the NFLPA or other side of the equation, who’s saying, You are the lightning rod, you are the biggest name out there, you have a chance to get a max, whatever your quote unquote Max deal means. And you have a chance to reset the structure for generations to come. I think on the other side, look, Lamar is quote unquote, betting on himself has really worked to this point. If he had taken a deal three years ago, it would have been for far less would have been for Dak money,
Nestor Aparicio 08:46
it would have been like Steve shoddy, selling the team three years ago for 3 million before the 3 billion before the plague and thinking that’s a lot. And now it’s worth five
David Katz 08:57
in this sport. Weighting has almost always been to the benefit of the seller in that it’s been hurt
Nestor Aparicio 09:05
and and playing the playoff game. And if this thing hits the market, and Eric’s making phone calls on March 8, who’s lining up, and all of them, I think, are willing to pay more than the ravens are willing to pay right now. Because the Ravens feel sunburned to me, right? I mean, what do you what are you you’re like, nobody knows. I’m watching this, and I’m not in the locker room. And I know the players are gonna walk the line and say the right things and all that. But this has been bizarre, right? And it’s more bizarre, because and maybe you speak better to this than anybody. He’s unrepresented. So when they were saying he’ll be back in a couple of weeks, and they’re powwow with Rich Eisen saying, he’ll be back by Christmas, he’s gonna be good. This is not a season ending injury as John Harbaugh pounds on the podium and says that to everyone, and then all of a sudden was a season ending injury. And there is this mystery of him disappearing. He was in Pittsburgh the day I had the press pass on They’re too rich for Christmas he walking around look like he was gonna play. And now everybody’s in damage control, right? Because they all lost. None of them won the Super Bowl, right? We know that right? It’s everyone lost. So this has felt not on the up and up as I always say to John Mark from the Maryland lottery it is felt very much like there has been mystery, and he’s been kept non combustible even though it feels like it could be combustible given the interest around it. But whatever they’re going to do in the next eight weeks, I will be stung. If Lamar Jackson is a raven, I guess I’ll be stung. And that’s, I can go bet on that right now my app right, like choking you. But as you know more about it than I do. You know, as well. But I would say I would be stunned if he’s back. I don’t know where the terms would be based on what I’ve seen the last eight months here beginning with the OTAs. To say, This feels like a happy marriage for both of them for both sides.
David Katz 11:02
Look, I think what the caster came out and said, was the truth. And I think he is a tremendous representative of this organization. The way he lays this out is comments about Lamar, I believe in an ideal world, he would want Lamar back, I do think that he would want to, but he needs to do it on terms where he’s allowed to build a competitive franchise around him. And Eric is not going to reset the quarterback market on a deal. Steve Ashad, he is not going to reset the payment structure and have to go to an owner’s meeting. If he if he starts attending and look his fellow owners in the eye and say, Yeah, I reset the market, I paid the highest price and I I issued it’s the first guaranteed deal for a quarterback is actually not the one that’s going to set the new precedent. It’s the second guaranteed deal that makes this a thing. And if an owner as respected as deep as shotty were to do that, then all the owners are going to be staring at him saying every agent is going to call and say you’ll see that. You know, I know the other one was the browns, this one was the Baltimore Ravens, it almost
Nestor Aparicio 12:13
sounds like collusion, what you’re talking about a little bit, just a little bit like that
David Katz 12:17
little it’s not it’s not collusion, because Steve is making the decision that he feels is right for himself. And by the way for the league. It’s not collusion, if he’s not sitting in a room talking to all the other owners and saying, Hey, if I do this, will you do this? I don’t think there’s any collusion here because I think there will be another owner who comes in and pays more than the Baltimore Ravens are willing to pay for Lamar Jackson. I think Lamar knows that. This, and that’s why I’m
Nestor Aparicio 12:43
saying he’s not taking a tag and gonna come here and play. So if your friends think they’re going to be at this for a year with Lamar, they’re gonna gonna pay him or he’s not going to be in a uniform September 10. i I’m pretty convinced that that’s right.
David Katz 12:53
Because I think the tag doesn’t work. Because I think what the tag does, does Lamar 140 $5 million? He absolutely does, does Lamar want the risk that comes with playing for $45 million, he does not. So what he he’s not going to not play, he’s not going to put a levy on bail, and walk away from this and not get his money, and then try to come back, he will not go to OTAs he will only attend the part of training camp that he has to he will play an X number of games, he will likely get dinged and then he will not come back and play and do anything where he’s not, quote unquote, at 100% and put his body at risk. I thought his tweet was telling. He put the 100% in there. Like you saw Patrick mahomes get hurt this past week. You saw him like furious on the sideline that they were not putting him back in. He wanted to play like that’s a guy who knows that his money is taken care of. And it’s his legacy at stake. And he is all about now doing whatever he can to get back there because his legacy is going to be how many AFC championships can he get to and how many Super Bowls Can he win? And Lamar hopping off in both years what appeared please again, I’m not a doctor but what appeared to be not super terrible injuries the way we’ve seen some catastrophic things on camera. And you do think to your in your mind, okay. X number of weeks, a professional athlete with the training and technology they have and the quality of their of their care. They shouldn’t be back out there and they’re not. Well, it seems like there’s something bigger at play there than just the injury. Again, I don’t know PCL, grade two on to grade three, no one from the Ravens has ever come out and said what this has been diagnosed as well if he
Nestor Aparicio 14:44
did a grade two on the way to grade three, and that’s really what it was, and that’s what it is, and he’s being honest. He’s calling them liars. And that’s why all of this and the fact that he wasn’t in Cincinnati and the fact that he is Your debt statement and not the Ravens issuing that statement says to me that there really is a lack of simpatico here. And again, I do go back to the fact that he’s unrepresented. Right? That he doesn’t have anybody reaching to someone in the media to tell his side of the story or give his side of the story. And I don’t know that his level of PR and people go to school for this, you know, Chatzky what the school people go to school to be spokespeople for professionals. I don’t know that he’s that guy. And I don’t know that this thing didn’t get away from him to some degree. And to your point. You look at it from the Ravens perspective. He wants top of school money, he’s won one playoff game. He wants top of school money, and he’s been injured. The last two times, the bell has rung for us to play playoff games. He wants top of line money. And he’s not the greatest passer. He’s He’s a fine passer. He’s not the best passer. And he’s not the best quarterback in the NFL. On any given day. He can win same as Joe Flacco and a different way. Nobody ever said Joe is the best quarterback today. He was the best quarterback a lot of days at the end of the game when he won games and they moved on to the playoffs. And someone else is going to love Lamar, right. Like we saw this with this guy with his criminal record last year, who might not be a better quarterback than Lamar certainly not more decorated than Lamar, when it comes to MVP and what Lamar is capable of doing and what Lamar has proven on the field, certainly more than Deshaun Watson. But that money that was out there for him, those draft picks dangling that Raul meet for a franchise that needs to sell tickets and wants to sell hype and feels like it has some inertia. He would be a godsend to the Jets, to the dolphins, to the Buccaneers, to the Texas to the Panthers to the on and on and on and on. And I know you know this in the commercial, when they compete, you win. Right? You know what I mean? There’s just gonna be, and it’s also a competition where the caster wins, right? Because if if it’s, if they slap a tag on him and restricted out and they get to number ones, and somebody has to match and they can still match and they’re not going to match. They know somebody’s going to offer to home something that they’re not ready to do for a guy that hasn’t been ready to play the playoffs the last few years that they might get the biggest trade ransom in the history, right. They might get for one. I mean, they gotta make it something crazy for Lamar and Lamar. So like it is $212 million, because Mr. Ross needs to sell skyboxes and so does Mr. Glazer, right?
David Katz 17:34
You’re touching on what I think is ultimately the core of what’s going to happen going forward. And this is to me is the most interesting thing. It’s not whether or not Lamar gets tagged, if there’s no deal in place, he will get tagged. The question is which tag he gets the exclusive tag or that non exclusive tag. And if you remember when Ray Lewis his deal was up years ago, I remember reading that Ray thought he should have gotten x, the team said we think your market is why and here’s what we’re able to pay you. And they let Ray go out and have conversations and find out what his market was.
Nestor Aparicio 18:08
He did our show for 45 minutes on radio row in Tampa that year, and the videos are all up on YouTube. Go check it out because he was footloose and fancy free. And he you know, he got paid good. He got paid top a mark and the Ravens was offering the most and it it stunned him right like literally stunned have
David Katz 18:28
to prove sometimes you have to prove it to yourself. You know, let Lamar see it for himself. Now. Can you imagine the process for Lamar, if with no agents, but let’s assume he continues with no agent. If he gets the non exclusive franchise tag, he’s going to be getting inbound calls. He is now going to have to negotiate 345 deals. take calls from everyone. Now I don’t know what kind of support he’s got. He’s got a team. He’s got people helping him in the back.
Nestor Aparicio 18:59
He does. I don’t know any of them. I don’t know.
David Katz 19:02
Look, the mark Lamar has no done. Lamar is very savvy and all of his moves to date, have put more ultimately more money in his pocket. It’s easy for us to sit here and say you should take x or you should take
Nestor Aparicio 19:18
what a big game since before I had a mask on. Like literally, it’s amazing, right? Like literally when it comes to what we’re telling Josh Allen what he didn’t produce last week for Stefon Diggs, and for a billion people in Western New York. There’s a part of this has been very Skatey for Lamar, that he’s going to get paid to your point. I don’t disagree with anything. He’s made himself more money and negotiating himself in by not even having to go out on the field and play. It’s amazing, really is
David Katz 19:50
so so let me ask you Nestor Do you believe that? Which way the Ravens will go will they go? This attacker nonexclusive tag, and you don’t think there’s any chance if they could get a good deal with Lamar a quote unquote good deal, something similar to what they’ve offered in the past. Maybe they make it a little richer. And Lamar is willing to take it now, do you think the Ravens want that? Or do you think they’re just putting that out there now to look like they, they tried, and they’re really wanting to move on? Because you know, as well as I do, this was a franchise and quarterback purgatory for a very long time. That I’m really glad you
Nestor Aparicio 20:31
asked me that. David, by the way, David Katz is here. Tell me what you do and who you are. And then I’ll answer your question because you’re being my my friend for a long time. But I don’t want to get all your resume wrong as far as what you’ve done and what you’re doing. But you are wanting to Baltimore zone. So people just got in the car, and you’re listening to everybody what you do.
David Katz 20:47
I’ve done a lot of things. But everything I’ve done has really been in the digital sports space, thinking about what the future of sports is for people online, on their mobile phones, in gambling, all the new trends and tools and techniques that have come over the last 20 to 25 years in sports, where it’s become our ability to have this conversation on video remotely incredible thing, and how the sports fan experience can change. And the company is called the post game. It’s been called that for a while. And I have an amazing team running that business now for me, and with me, and we are basically a content marketing agency for leagues for teams for athletes for media companies, and we help them do a lot of video production, content syndication, social media work, a lot of behind the scenes stuff that makes their stuff great for fans and you as I’ve done it at Fox Sports and Yahoo Sports and CBS Sports over a long period of time and it’s really a great industry and it’s amazing where it is today. And how much money time care attention goes into it. It’s it’s, it’s transformative for a lot of people in a lot of places.
Nestor Aparicio 22:01
Oh complete idiot. I forgot about CBS. I said sports fan. And that wasn’t even the place. I messed up the postgame there. Yes. David Katz. Kathmandu also went find him on Twitter. So I’m glad you asked me that because nobody’s asked me that. I feel like I was on your show. When you’re asking me like what do I really think has happened? I think they’re both disgruntled. I mean, that’s my my honest opinion is Lamar doesn’t really want to be here because he doesn’t feel like they believed in him. If he felt that way would have been holding signs up, he wouldn’t have been skipping out on OTAs he would have been in Cincinnati, at least in a press box, sitting down somewhere waving a towel with his teammates. I sense the disgruntled nature. John Harbaugh and I had a private moment back in the spring when Lamar missed the OTAs. And I knew of John’s, disgruntled nature for how you would feel as a coach when your your guy is not there for OTAs and then that it lingers on that it’s been a second year of being outed, that Clearly. Clearly there were people in the organization who thought he would be ready to play a playoff game if not before and he wasn’t. And there is a and I use this the morning after day for the morning after the last two to the bangles. I said big trust right big trust met trust with a tee right? The trust is gone. Right? I I sense a lack of are you really hurt? Are you fake? You wouldn’t fake it. But David catches came on and said Hey, dude, no, no, you’re not paying me. And I don’t have a you know, like, and it’s not all the way right. So, you know, but our could you have gone and it, Lamar, hypothetically, if we gave you $185 million, would you have played because if you want to play you should have played you could have played and all of our assets were on the line and we lost and you didn’t play. And so there’s a little bit of that. And then there’s I just think the Lamar WTF with Hollywood Brown. I think that rubs people the wrong way they knew he was being traded, he was told, and Eric made that clear, and said, Come on, man. You know, like, you knew we were trading this guy, you don’t need to, they don’t need to be theatrics. And you know, he asked out and we accommodated him. And David I will tell you another part of this and this is maybe speaks more to the modern athlete. And I did have a moment ad on the internet earlier this week when the Cincinnati Bengals went back to that bar that looked like the barn and they got up and they were getting footballs out. You know and I thought of the barn and you know back in the old days and how the old days rolled and all of that stuff. In the old days nobody ever asked me to Owings Mills. You know I mean to Trevor prices and all those guys that came here at the end of the Billick era and all that every Ray Lewis to Elsa and they were all said rather be guys came in from other places and Derrick masons and they all we love Baltimore it’s this is where we want to be we this was a beacon for the clay as Campbell’s and but and Chris Kathy’s and people that wanted to Eric, where do I go down the list? Are they board wide receivers because they can’t travel. But but in recent times, see Hayden Hearst run around this week was a first round draft pick who said I need out in an offense that was could have been designed to get him the ball more, they would have had like two tight ends and were wide receivers. That would make it interesting, right. But he didn’t want to be here because he wanted the ball. And then this offense doesn’t allow anybody who’s a wide receiver to be coachable. I had Barry trots on the show a couple months ago, and we talk about jobs. And the Winnipeg job, he’s from there, he would love to be there. He can’t recruit there, he can’t win there. So you can’t recruit can’t win. So part of recruiting the wide receiver thing and drafting these wide receivers. But I think for both sides here, you know Hayden Hurst this ask out Orlando brand is at Brown has asked that they’re playing football this week. Let’s have two or three other guys have asked out of your last couple years that want out Hollywood brown being another one. So that the quarterback asked out that used to be a time where I think nobody wants to leave purple camp happy and Owings Mills, everyone wants to play for Mr. shotty. And for for this winning organization, this team’s won two games in 10 years and post postseason. So I don’t know that it’s that. And and I would just say that the nature of the public face as a professional who’s done this my whole life, being an inside outside knowing agents, knowing how the game is played back a house, how the kitchen works. This feels like a divorce to me day, you know, and it feels like they’ll both come out saying the right things. And they’ve all said the right things for now. So that they can get their piece and they can get their draft picks and they can maximize value. No one wants to urinate on the MAR and mess with his value because you want draft picks nothing. Lamar doesn’t want to mess with them and look disgruntled. So he’s already done enough, he’s held a sign up in front of the world and said Pay me he’s WTF disfranchise on draft night, when they dealt his buddy that they knew he was trading. He’s told a poor guy in Pennsylvania to perform fillet, you know, like, all of these things he’s done, to get five days to apologize and to drag him out. And he didn’t. And he said his girlfriend told him to take it down. So like, I don’t think this happened six weeks ago. So I just think there will be a divorce, there will be a parting of ways and how they manage it is fascinating from a PR standpoint, as to who points to who holds their nose what the excuse would be we just tried our best and we just couldn’t come to terms and you know, and God bless Lamar, we love Lamar, but we couldn’t do that to our salary cap here. And we had to reload and Lamar and now once he’s traded, it’s he wasn’t available. JAMIE No, you know, like, but be
David Katz 27:40
handled with class they are, they’re gonna handle it with class, they’re gonna say the right thing they always do they did on Thursday. They’re not gonna throw them all under the bus. They’re going to talk about his accomplishments here and how he transformed the position and what he meant to the community. And by the way, all that stuff is true. And it just may be that sometimes a divorce is the right way to go. But think about this. If there was one player in the ear of Lamar during this entire like, caught last two years, who could have really changed his mindset, to the negative about playing or and about the risks and everything. The one guy, I think, in the entire history of the league, that if you’re the ravens, you wouldn’t want them talking to them. And if you’re Lamar, you’d want to hear it is Robert Griffin, the third. That guy did what Lamar is afraid to do.
Nestor Aparicio 28:37
And he’s also fronting for Lamar the morning after Lamar was sick, which is why he didn’t go to Cincinnati. No one in the world is
David Katz 28:44
very clear that these guys are friends. They played together. We put RG three, we put a guy who had this injury, Injury history as his backup in that quarterback room every day, making him their best friends. And you got a guy who’s gonna sit there and say, I’m the cautionary tale. You look at me every day. I’m the cautionary tale. I’m on TV today. I’m not playing today.
Nestor Aparicio 29:10
I could have had $200 million, but I don’t write literally exactly.
David Katz 29:13
I mean he was the electric MVP ask player in that first year or two changing the game dynamic and it ended abruptly so as soon as I saw RG threes posts saying would you play how much money
Nestor Aparicio 29:33
did RG three MAKE IT career if you had to look him up?
David Katz 29:38
I’m gonna guess he made $40,000,000.30 $6,000,000.30 $3
Nestor Aparicio 29:41
million. The Mars made $33 million now. Yes, right. Okay, fair enough.
David Katz 29:47
Okay, I’m just saying like it’s all who you hear from right? Aren’t we all affected by the conversations we just had and the friends that we have and the experiences they went through So think about it from the Mars perspective. Here’s a friend, a colleague sitting there who he had this relationship with, who’s telling him? Look at me. Don’t be me. And I don’t know this is not journalism. I don’t know. I’m just funny. You
Nestor Aparicio 30:18
said that on the air with me this week. And it’s the most astute I mean, that’s why have you on cats. David Katz is here. He is with the postgame as well as you find them out of Kathmandu. But it’s an interesting observation. It’s who is in his ear. It’s pretty obvious who’s in his ear right.
David Katz 30:33
When I saw RG three come out with that post after everyone’s criticizing Lamar for not being available in Cincinnati. It like dawned on me This is why Lamar, slow, quote, unquote, slowed things down. Lamar probably was ready to play. And then I’m sure he had conversations like is your knee 100%? What is your chance? What’s your risk? What’s the chance of reinjury? What does that do for you in an offseason that’s so important for you. And again, no one’s wrong. The ravens are not wrong if they are upset about him not being available, because you know what, with Tyler Huntley, they were the better team against Cincinnati. They should have won that game. It should have been playing Patrick mahomes in Kansas City chances of winning that game would not have been great, but they would have had a chance. And you know what, with Lamar, and the Ravens have won two Super Bowls, and how did they win two Super Bowls, great defense, and a quarterback that got hot. Not the best quarterback, a quarterback who got hot, and a team that just found its identity. And it was I think the Ravens build. As you’ve heard Ozzie Newsome say in the past, we got to win the division. We got to get in the tournament. And then anything can happen. And their style of football translates in December and January, maybe more than a lot of these other teams. So you know what? They could have made a run the the Chiefs don’t look unbeatable. The bills did not look unbeatable with
Nestor Aparicio 32:01
Lamar Jackson back playing. If Lamar had slow played this and just gotten totally healthy, and the whole organization set on Christmas, take three weeks off, come back, give it your go. We’re in a we’re in the plenty of that we’re in the playoffs Christmas Eve, literally right. So they could have to shut this down and said, We’re not all that concerned with home and road game. We’re not going to go through all that trouble to get a home game. We’ve done that last home before. Let’s just get you right. Look, we’re in this together. Lamar, we’re family, we’re going to Yeah, that didn’t happen. By the way. What do you think is going to happen? What? What’s your crystal ball when you and I get together on draft night? As we will do? It’s a barbecue to honor there’s folks in Kansas City celebrating what are we getting a draft in Baltimore? So we get together on draft night, April 28, which is about 100 days from now we got 100 days, what’s going to what’s your My crystal ball is? Hey, trade, I don’t know what team whoever Oh, you know, I just know, it’ll be a lot. And he’ll get a lot, he’ll get a lot. They’ll get a lot. They’ll call it a business transaction. And we’ll move forward because I just don’t think they’re going to pay him to your point. They’re not going to give him the most money guaranteed. And I don’t think he’s that happy here in general, and hasn’t felt happy. So I feel like the divorce, where are you? Yeah.
David Katz 33:18
So obviously, we’re working with highly imperfect information. But I think there’s a decision tree that’s going to happen here. Eric de Costa, has had conversations with other teams. Now. I think he has a general sense of what he will get from these teams in a trade situation. And who wants
Nestor Aparicio 33:41
to Lamar, not everybody wants to Lamar. I mean, you have to change everything to bring them all in. And you have to give him $50 million, and you have to figure out your wide receivers are gonna be because you’re not gonna be able to recruit him either. So, you know, these these teams?
David Katz 33:54
I thought about it, that one interesting move that I think we could do. And I’m curious what other people would think and I’m sure you’ll get feedback on this one. To me, the interesting move is your trade, Lamar, you get picks, you give one or two of those picks to the bears. You take Justin fields, and the bears are sitting there to chance to take, you know, the top pick in the draft. And then you have a quarterback who has a lot of the essence of Lamar probably hasn’t had as good at coaching as Lamar. And but you wouldn’t need to transform your entire offense. And you get to reset the clock not all the way back to a rookie deal, but to another deal. And then this comes down to whether or not you believe the philosophy that you’ve now had three to four years of run first with an RPO type quarterback like again, this is stuff I can’t evaluate.
Nestor Aparicio 34:53
Well, this was an experiment right John called before he called Revolution. He called it an X pyramid, it was a revolution to now three years later, when you don’t win playoff games to you know, maybe it’s a CD, we should move on to digital, you know what I mean? I listen, I never loved it. They have a
David Katz 35:14
perspective, they have a perspective on that. And we will find out what that perspective is based on what decisions are made? Where do they go for someone else with a more of a running style, run first pass second, because if you hear that, then they believe that’s the future of the league, tight ends, receivers that block not receivers that catch all of this stuff. And we will see what they really think of this because you have really the best talent that could do this do this. I don’t know, I think they are going to know what they’re generally what the hall could be. They’re going to have those deals in their back pocket. And based on which tag they put on him will tell you whether it’s a two number one pick offer, or whether it’s a more than two, number one pick offer on the table for someone like him. And then here’s the interesting thing. What if Lamar doesn’t reach an agreement with another team, and you’ve put the non exclusive tag on him. So there’s no deal to match. And you’ve got him there. And if you’re going to trade Lamar, without Lamar signing a long term deal, you’re not getting very much back for Lamar. So you may then be sitting with Lamar at $35 million, as opposed to $45 million, or wherever the numbers play out. And Lamar might just be saying, Kirk Cousins, this whole thing. All right, I made 25, I’ll make 35, I’ll make 50. And then I’m a true free agent, and I can get true value. And by the way, what’s going to happen with the salary cap, then these new TV deals will have kicked in, the new gambling partnerships will have kicked in the real money on Thursday night football, when people hear a new TV deal, you asked me about contracts when people hear that a new TV deal has been struck. And it’s doubled the money, it doesn’t double the money overnight. One that’s that deals done one or two years before the old contract ends and the new contract begins before it’s reset. And number two, that’s an average annual value deal. So that fox goes from 1.1 to 1.7, or whatever the numbers were, that were reported. Well, that’s an average annual value. That means that in year one of that deal, it might be 1.2 billion. And in year 10 of that deal, it might be 2.2 billion. Well, at that
Nestor Aparicio 37:39
point, you just know your caps going from 208 to 220 to 232 to 244. And it’s gonna happen quickly, I’m going to one of 12 million like and it’s going to go bigger than 12 million, right? So it’ll be a jump, it will be $250 million by 27 or 28. Right? Like very, very quickly to where that extra $10 million for quarterbacks are getting 48 million, they’ll be getting 60 million by then
David Katz 38:03
they will, they will absolutely, which is why signing
Nestor Aparicio 38:07
Patrick mahomes already has a bad deal.
David Katz 38:11
By the way, I know if you saw what Mike Florio suggested, which was interesting, because I had a very similar conversation with someone, if you have someone you really want to keep, and he is the face of your franchise, and you believe in him the way I think Cincinnati has to feel about Joe burrow. There’s a whole other story there about whether Mike Brown can afford that deal. But based on NFL rules, we have to put a certain amount of that guarantee and escrow, he doesn’t have the cash for it. And by the way, it is this Joe burrow want to be on a team where they won’t be able to keep all of those weapons, they just can’t. So that receiver room is gonna look very different the future, but that’s for another time. But imagine if you went to Joe burrow and said, I’m gonna give you a 10 year deal at 25% of my cap, or whatever that number is, you will be 25% it’ll reset every year based on whatever 25% of that, of that salary cap is. So in seven years, it’s a deal. That’s time proofed for the quarterback. And it’s structured in such a way that the team knows they will never have to pay more than x percent on a quarterback because they’ve made that calculation. They love cost
Nestor Aparicio 39:21
certainty for all these positions. Right?
David Katz 39:23
So is that the type of model that might happen going forward for these deals? Because ultimately, an X guaranteed deal that’s not a fully guaranteed deal is basically a three or four year deal with a cap hit. But you can take that dead money on a cap hit when you know the cap is going to be x you can work your way through that over time. So, look, I think what the Ravens have offered has probably been very generous, but not maximum. And how often do you sit there and say, I love my situation. I know what my situation Is the grass may not be greener, and I’m very comfortable. And a lot of these people like certainty like comfort. And that’s what this franchise tag is all about. It’s giving these parties a chance to figure out something that is probably a below market deal. The only way you get to true market economics is true free agency. And the structure is not there for that. And I think it’s good that it’s not there for that because I still think there’s a pot of gold for the player. And I think there’s a way for teams who have invested in these players to retain them either for longer or forever. And I think the NFL, the NFL is not the perfect system. But it tends to be the most perfect system at creating the excitement that every fan has on September 7, eighth, ninth 10th whatever day one is that your team could wit make the playoffs and win the Super Bowl. Almost every team feels that in week one. David
Nestor Aparicio 41:00
Katz is here he is of course here at the postgame and at Kathmandu. He’s down in South Florida. He is our Raven superfan and long, longtime sports executive at the more alphabet places that I have actually named here. I just like saying Yeah. When I do talk about that last thing for you because this has been a lengthy deep dive on Lamar Lamar, Lamar, Lamar, but what else is there between all of us in our friends, right? But the next thing would be this. And we finally signed Lamar we can $3,000,000,000.03 years from now we make it to the AFC Championship game or 15 and two, and lo and behold, the AFC Championship Game is in Seattle, because that’s what they decide that they’re gonna play it the week before we moved into like the Peach Bowl and the Fiesta Bowl era have like we’re now in that conversation based on this tragedy near tragedy certainly wasn’t a good situation with Mr. Hamlin that they put this Atlanta thing together. And lo and behold, we find out they were planning this in the kitchen all along, and we’re just moving more toward that that would really be shame. Dave like we haven’t had an AFC champion came in the city. I pined away for for 26 years, we came this close with Peyton Manning and oh six and you know, it’s spit up our tea a couple of years ago against the chart like that was the great purple hope was to play a game here, right? Man he got taken out away, right? I mean, they might as well just bend over my PSL right or my former PSL.
David Katz 42:27
I do think that the idea of a neutral field championship game both in AFC and NFC is a possibility in the next five to 10 years. I think the think about you know what the Superbowl has become, and I went to the I went to SoFi stadium for the national championship game and college football. Obviously weather obviously located it was not the same what the Superbowl has captured. It is the best sports conference of the week for people like you and I. It is the best, like fantasy week where all the athletes of yesteryear come together and fans connect with them. It is a party. It is the restaurants, the club’s everything. It is a festival of sport. And they’ve done it in an amazing way. And they’ve milked a lot of money out of that. But they’ve also created a lot of value for fans, because it’s an incredible experience. And if your team goes, it’s really an incredible experience. So can I’m sure they’re thinking can they do it again, for an AFC and NFC Championship game? Can you put it in it? The problem is you have AFC all over the country. So you’re going to put it in an NFC stadium. And if it’s an NFC game, you’re going to put it in AFC stadium. And where you put it if you put in the middle of the country and the chiefs are playing what you want MetLife
Nestor Aparicio 43:53
by the way in which one so far I’m just asking.
David Katz 43:57
Great question. Alternating years.
Nestor Aparicio 44:01
Well, they wanted MetLife Stadium because it snows there. They don’t want that. They had that with a Super Bowl years ago. And they lucked out by 48 hours.
David Katz 44:09
It can be just thinking it could be in a dome, it would be in a dome, it would be in warm weather. It’s going to it’s going to have that like a bowl game literally be a mini festival feel. Exactly. And I can see that happening because when that happens, the league sells the tickets. So the league gets the money so all the owners benefit instead of one owner.
Nestor Aparicio 44:36
That owner should benefit because his team was the best team and I mean God bless Clark Khan and his beautiful family you know like they got the game they Cincinnati’s got a beef about that but Philadelphia on fire this weekend. Why don’t you want that game playing tamp or Miami? I mean no offense Tampa Miami and you’re there and I’m gonna be coming to Tampa next week because he Springsteen’s all here Yeah, but I Like, I wouldn’t want that. If I was an eagle fan, I’d be pissed that they moved the game and I’d be pissed that as a cheater person, but that was an extenuating circumstance. But the spin that into the Peach Bowl in Atlanta and the Fiesta Bowl in Phoenix as a precursor to the Super Bowl in Dallas.
David Katz 45:20
Just think about them. Just think about what a bill’s chiefs game would be with half the stadium red, half the stadium blue,
Nestor Aparicio 45:32
the Super Bowl, and you know what it would be it would suck because I go every year to the Super Bowl, and it half sucks. It never really gets loud. It never really gets. It’s fun. It’s interesting, but it’s not like a football game. The Super Bowl is not like at all than sound when you’re I’ve been 28 of them. It doesn’t feel and sound at all, like a Ravens Steelers game in Pittsburgh or Baltimore. Either way,
David Katz 45:54
follow the money follow what could they charge? You know, they’ll figure something out Pro Bowl the day before, then they have that like there’s a whole thing they’ll figure out. You know what,
Nestor Aparicio 46:09
buy Apple Watch, right? They go into each other we want. We don’t really,
David Katz 46:13
really good at this, I guess as a business person as a quote unquote media executive, their ability to thread the needle. And every time you think, Oh, they’re saturating the market. They don’t they just slightly under saturated. There’s so much demand. There’s so much
Nestor Aparicio 46:32
they still got Friday night football. I was pitching to my wife the other night. There’s no Monday Night Football last week they play a Monday night wildcard game. This week, we’re like, give me it’s like a fix. It’s it’s like drugs keep gimme, gimme, gimme,
David Katz 46:46
playing they will be playing four or five nights a week.
Nestor Aparicio 46:51
There’s three games left and the program on it. And they’re bringing in flags and they’re bringing in Peyton and Eli just like guten Lopate and Elon Musk David cats these cats man do. He is our Baltimorean by birth. Floridian by choice and enjoying the good life you have a good time I think with your life.
David Katz 47:08
Everything is good. My parents split time between Baltimore and Miami so I decided to come down here to spend more time with them. And it’s been a great decision. And it gets me closer to Baltimore closer to New York. There’s a lot going on in those two places for me and life is good man if you ever
Nestor Aparicio 47:25
meet me at Epcot next Thursday and we’ll go around the world 30 beers and we’ll have a good time as I make my way from Tampa to Atlanta for the person I’m wearing my mic with my window nation shirt, but this is my Born in the USA Sure. Okay, you
David Katz 47:39
know Sam did amazing concert. Yeah, I
Nestor Aparicio 47:42
said to my wife and this is the God’s honest truth. I’m a couple of days out and I’m a little bit like you know, the box of chocolates kid and monsters like the ravens are in the Super Bowl even though they’re not almost feels like I’m going to the Super Bowl even though I’m not but I would say this for me with the Bruce thing. I haven’t even listened to a Springsteen song other than what’s come on in eight months, because I just want it to be really fresh. You know what I mean? Kinda like if you skip preseason football and you just put it on the first night. It’s, you know what I mean? It’ll be fresh. All right, David Katz.
David Katz 48:14
Two and a half to three hours so it’ll be worth it. Yeah, it’s
Nestor Aparicio 48:17
gonna be a marathon for seven except the generic one. I can’t believe I said that about Bruce. I am ESeries David Casper find him at its postgame. He is a friend of ours as always, and following every little morsel in nugget of any purple room of smoke that may fly out of Owings Mills between now and whenever they inevitably can’t get a trademark right.
David Katz 48:40
Whatever they do will be the right decision. They won’t kick
Nestor Aparicio 48:43
the ball till September the 10th Unless the Bengals win the Super Bowl and they start the season on the seventh. So remember that between now and then, as Ozzy would say, and I know Eric is a patented this one. We don’t have to play tomorrow. We don’t have to play till September. We’re good. David Katz. Appreciation for him. I dude, I am Mister we are w nsda In 1570, Towson Baltimore. And we never stop talking Baltimore. Positive Stay with us.
