The wake of a Baltimore tragedy and Key reasons to rebuild

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In the early hours after the Key Bridge tragedy in his hometown of Dundalk, Nestor joins Bill Cole with thoughts about the incident and the recovery for Dundalk and the Port of Baltimore and America. (Photo: Christopher Edgar)


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Bill Cole, Nestor J. Aparicio

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home, we are WNS I am 5070, Towson, Baltimore, Baltimore strong, Baltimore proud and Baltimore positive. I’ve been in Florida, the last six days away for the NFL owners meetings where Steve Shadi and Eric de Costa ran for me in the middle of the night. And in the middle of the night, we had a tragedy here that it’s gonna take a long, long time to unpeel This is my first segment back if you’re hearing it on the radio, we’re back opening days Thursday, we hope maybe Friday based on the rain. We’ll figure all that out. But the one thing we know and I knew landing at BWI, on Tuesday night after spending a week in Florida with the Orioles and with the NFL owners meetings is that the Key Bridge is gone. And I was awakened at 5:50am on Tuesday morning. Got in literally shouting and chat steal. We’re running from me at 1230 in the morning, and I got home at one and woke up at almost six and saw the tragedy put the TV on I’m in Florida. I’m in a hotel room. I’m literally at Disney World for crying out loud kids are screaming in the other rooms. And everywhere. I went on Tuesday through Orlando in the airport and obviously a plane bound for Baltimore. So biggest story in the world for a day. It’ll be our story will be bigger story here for the next couple of years. Bill Cole joins us now. He is coal roofing and Gordian energy. You know, I guess it’s sort of apropos that you’re my first guest in the aftermath of this because this is the first time I’m going to talk about the bridge other than putting pictures up. And how are you doing, man? Whoa, welcome. I’m wearing my costume shirt because I want to give love to my friends over on the peninsula. Anybody over in the Sparrows Point area Edgemere for Howard, where I’m from and Dundalk that access and business and commerce is going to change. So I want to give them some love while I give you some love with my royal farms, coffee in the cold brew from Bob, what’s going on? Brother? How are you?


Bill Cole  02:08

Good morning. How are ya? So

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:11

when they’re listening? Right.

Bill Cole  02:15

You know, I’m like, I just want to have lots to say, which is usually a struggle for you and I to share the mic, but we’ll we’ll figure our way through it. I I want to be respectful, right? Like we’re still really raw to the, you know, incident and the accident. So, you know, there was loss of life it is you know, terrible. And there’s families and we pray and, you know, I personally am just not real good at all that like my brain just immediately starts like gyrating on the problem and we rebuild it right yeah. Like I I’m just not

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:57


show up. I tell everybody what you do for a living you show up after when takes the roof off my mother’s house or a business? Primarily businesses because my, my mother’s house, you came and rescued me. But I saw the carnage and the damage and my mother and the roofs off and like holy hell, and you’re like she’s crying? Is she okay? Is the dog okay? Is everything. Okay? Let’s fix the roof. Right. So like, I know that that’s the way your mind works. And so give me your day gig. Like how does one find out about this? Jessica valus, who is once our website she’s rebuilding the new Baltimore positive or relaunching that next week. I’m in the middle of this crazy documentary with with Greg Landry over at Blue Rock productions in Towson. So I have all this stuff going on. I don’t know that you’re ever prepared for a text where the text was sent to me at 330. In the morning, I had my phone off, right. So I didn’t hear it. So I didn’t find it till then. And I immediately grabbed the remote, which I never do in a hotel room and went to cable television. And the first thing I saw was Johnny, yo, literally Johnny Oh popped up on my screen. I might as well have been in Towson. And the police chief for Baltimore City was just so impressive. I mean, Brandon, Wes, just everybody that got down there at four o’clock in the morning, and then the 1000s of people that are doing this i i Stand in awe. I really do. And I I mean, we’re I’m 24 hours into this, and it’s very, very raw to me. I mean, I found myself sobbing three or four times and I can’t stop and I see pictures. And I don’t even know why. Like it reminds me that Tony Soprano’s thing with the ducks. Like I don’t know why I’m emotional, but like that thing was in the sky. I could see that from my bathroom in my childhood home. I could look out the window and see it. I could see it from my home on Kane street and I could not see it from my home downtown for 19 years. It was the only view I didn’t have. I had I had 280 degrees of the 360 view. And the only view I didn’t have was fat. I’d Hill and fully down the bay to see the Key Bridge only then we couldn’t see from my home. Yeah,

Bill Cole  05:05

that’s interesting. I didn’t see it see it until like if you’re heading north on 95 Pass the 395 interchange to go downtown you. You can look over Baltimore Peninsula

Nestor J. Aparicio  05:21

because you’re high enough up when you’re in Dundalk like literally right? When you’re over my childhood home at Eastern Avenue 195 Kane Street, and you look out you can see it from everywhere. Yeah, it’s the Key Bridge, man. I mean, like, but that being said, I remember the day it opened. And I had to tell my wife just like I got, I got a little busted up telling us I hope I can tell you but my uncle Norman, came over to my house. I was nine years old 1977. I remember my uncle Norman came over the house. He said, The new bridge is open. I want to drive you over. And he put me in the car. And we went down past Costas up onto the bridge and took the bridge over and turned around a Ford Smallwood road. He came back. And I remember the first ride over and seeing the city. I remember the second ride over to What’s that little island down there? What’s that thing? So I remember the first time I went over the bridge, and I don’t remember life before it, I don’t remember it not being there. Yeah. You know, I don’t I don’t remember if we’re looking at not seeing it there. Yeah,

Bill Cole  06:17

you know, I find it fascinating to kind of listen to the national news, right? Because you always get a different perspective of what the outside universe is thinking about us. You know, like, you living here, the Key Bridge, based on my traffic patterns, and like what I do, the Key Bridge is like a nice bailout. You know, like, when 95 is a mess, or the west side of the beltway is a mess or whatever, you could always, you know, especially if you’re not, you don’t mind adding like 10 minutes to your drive to maybe save 20 Yeah, you know, there’s nobody over there. So you just drive over on that side. But to listen to everyone else, you know, me, if you just look at the map, you’re like, This is a major Northeast Corridor artery. And I think for trucking, it probably is, especially with the hazmat issues of the tunnels. And so it is, you know, I think of our friends down at Tradepoint. Like, that’s what I’m


Nestor J. Aparicio  07:24

wearing. My cost is shirt.

Bill Cole  07:26

fundamental problem. I don’t know how many

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:29

people come to cost this across the bridge, but I do know that Tradepoint Atlanta and jobs and more than that, anything that’s, I’m from that area, it’s my home, you know what I mean? Like, so, watching this on TV was just, I don’t know, I’m gonna make it all day talking about this bill. You know, I really don’t. Um,

Bill Cole  07:51


so I like, what I want to keep talking about the actual incident. And then I want to try and give you my optimistic spin. But like, there’s some level, you know, one day maybe well understand, but like, there’s some level of training and preparedness. That I don’t know if you’ve heard like the call, they have like to tape of it now, where Mayday goes from the boat in the bridge, police are notified, they shut down the road, like reality, even at 130 in the morning, if that system hadn’t been drilled and trained, and we didn’t have a process for that. You know, you’d have lost a dozen more cars, a dozen more people, two dozen more people. I mean, it would have been significantly worse. So they stopped traffic like now.

Nestor J. Aparicio  08:51

So within seconds, by the way, yeah, watch that video. Within cars were flight trucks. You could see the lights, and then it stops and then then the Bridgeville like it.

Bill Cole  09:01

Yeah, there’s some, you know, there’s definitely some work to do to understand how the construction crew, you know, was still out there that that’s a miss and, you know, we’re gonna learn more about that along the way. Time. Well, I’ve heard a lot of that. I mean, think about it. That’s pretty close to us. And we

Nestor J. Aparicio  09:28

saw a video on the real incident in real time. That whole thing happened in 90 seconds, right? I mean, literally, it was 90 seconds. Lights Go Go on. comes out. Hey, and then the bridge like it did not. It happens fast, man. It happens fast.


Bill Cole  09:46

I know I’m not a I like hate to speculate on your platform. Like if it’s just us to talking I don’t mind but you know, all the people that are listed and I I just know that When three or four guys, or in this case, six guys or whatever it was, are kind of doing some work like, somebody sees the boat, like they, they know the boats there, they see what’s happening to the boat, like, I don’t know, they said there were maybe whatever on lunch break. Again, like I said, there’s a story there, and we’re gonna have to unpack it. There’s a story around the boat, you know, the boats failure, I, my understanding is that that boat would have been piloted by a Baltimore Harbor pilot, not the ship’s captain, someone needs to verify that for me, we have really good friends that we’ve done work for over the years that run a lot of the tugboats down there. You know, the tugboats pull away once they dropped the ship into the channel. So, you know, there’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  10:59

when you get roofing supplies, like big time you’re doing a job on the stadium, like I’m making that up, but a college or a convention to kind of work on roofing does those materials, the stuff that comes in, does that come into a truck? Or does that come in on a boat? Like does that come? How does your stuff get here? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, this is opening my mind, because I never knew how important the port was until probably 15 years ago, you’re a kid, you’re from East Baltimore, it’s just there, you drive by it every day, the salt piles by the tunnels. And like all of that, the Baltimore positive thing of me getting to be a grown up and being 55. Now and sort of understanding all the cars that come in that I used to see when I went through the harbor tunnel as a boy that were stacked up over on the Brooklyn side. And, and also the first thing I would say, and you know, this is where I’ll come up with the terrorism line. And like all that stuff that we could talk about in regard to foul play, is that I always believed the tunnels were targets, right? The tunnels were always targets when there was a, when it went from orange to red from, you know, whatever those alerts are when you go to the airport. And, you know, there’s a terrorism threat and like levels high, when the levels high, the tunnels would be completely a target, right? Because if you could shut down the port, you could sort of disrupt commerce in America or the East Coast or, you know, screw things up if you’re a bad guy, right. So I’ve always known that. So when the preacher went down, obviously, the foul play stuff and the right wing Zealots, and like all of that people going crazy. But it’s not far fetched to think if you wanted to handicap our city, that not our city, but our country, that these are the kinds of crazy things that happen. So all of that conspiracy, craziness, but now the port really is shut down. And we’re gonna assume 99.9% here that this was completely accidental. And we’re gonna find out all the things you’re talking about. But this is a logistical issue that I don’t understand that I’m trying to. I mean, I know the bridge is gone. I’m emotional about it. People can’t get the car, I got all of that. Now I’m on day two. And I’m like, What is this mean for all of it in regard to people like you not even being able to get your stuff and you’re just one of a billion businesses to things come into that board that I’m not even aware of what they are. But I would think this is I’ve heard Amazon packaging and this and that, whatever. And I’m thinking All right, so the thing I ordered on Amazon’s not coming. But I’m thinking about crippled businesses or industries, and how quickly things can get rerouted through Norfolk or this or that or wherever things come in from right. Yeah,

Bill Cole  13:35

I think there’s, you know, there’s the immediate problem of the dozen or so boats that are sitting out in the bay waiting to come in, they can’t come in, and then there’s the dozen or so boats that are in that can’t get out. You know, a lot of our stuff is manufactured in the US are coming over the road. But the raw a lot of the raw materials come from abroad. So so there is a port, there is shipping. I you know, I don’t know, I’m not close enough to really fully understand I think that the so

Nestor J. Aparicio  14:07


come to your office, you’re not sure exactly what port it comes, like, literally, why don’t you think about this stuff, go down there and pick it up on the on the on the dock and bring it back? Right.

Bill Cole  14:17

Right. We learned a lot. We learned a lot through COVID Because of the supply chain problems that occurred, you know, so I would say that we’re probably better suited today to handle this sort of disruption than we were pre COVID Because we just learned how to be flexible during that period. You know, do you remember there was probably a couple months span where the top of that story was like all the problems at the ports and not being able to get the boats in or get them unloaded and the containers that weren’t any empty containers and because nobody was unpacking the contents. So shipping became a disaster. Well, during that time period, we built smaller boats that could go to you know, shallower ports. Are we so we, we built a lot of redundancy and flexibility in the shipping system. So I’m assuming, here’s what I love about it. Everyone in the world yesterday, was reminded about Baltimore port, and how fundamentally important it is and how awesome it is, you know, we’re, we’re the deepest port on the Eastern Seaboard, meaning that we come farther west than anybody. So if you’re pushing goods via truck, into the middle of the country, you need to come to Baltimore, because it saves you, you know, four hours, eight hours, 12 hours by trucking that go in

Nestor J. Aparicio  15:44

New England or out of the south. Okay, right.

Bill Cole  15:47

So what I mean, look, again, I opened with you about my lack of emotional IQ, right? Like I like it. I have a hard time talking about the loss of life and the sadness, I go right to, like, how do we solve this? And what’s the what’s the long term outcome, that’s just I’d rather dwell on that maybe, maybe I’m just avoiding the hard part’s, I don’t know. But like, there is a history that says, when cities have catastrophic incidences, they come out significantly better. So when Detroit files for bankruptcy, it’s like the beginning of the new turning of the corner and the revival. New Orleans is in a hard place. Katrina happens. Katrina, the incident is horrible. But the underlying theme is when the federal government comes to your city, and sprinkles billions of dollars on it, like good stuff happens. It’s like economic stimulus. Like, I


Nestor J. Aparicio  17:00

don’t want to say that this is going to help Tradepoint Atlantic in the end, 10 years now, but the whole world knows where it is now. 100% 100%,

Bill Cole  17:06

and everyone is looking at it. Because remember, now, with the exception of maybe a maintenance guy who didn’t fix the boat, right? Like, the story is going to be that the mechanical failure in the boat, and the pilot did everything he could like, you see the big smoke that comes out of the boat when power comes back in. That’s him Yellin full reverse rudder, or whatever they say in the movies. You know, like he knew he’s dropped, it anchors like he’s doing everything he can

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:43

apparently the dropping of the anchor turn the boat, like from from what I’ve seen on and I don’t, again, I’m not a boat expert, I don’t want to play one. And to your point, how it happened. There’ll be smarter people, you know, to, to put that, but But what do we do as citizens? What do we do as leaders? What do we do as business owners? What do we do as residents? What do we do is, you know, just concerned citizens,

Bill Cole  18:07


I you know, some people will start to go down the insurance hole or now that Biden said he’s paying for it. nobody even cares about insurance. And like, what about somebody cares about insurance here? You trust me on that? But the weird story, and again, you asked me about my day yesterday? Well, you know, any free minute I was reading or looking at something but like my day went on as normal, right? I mean, we got to do what we got to do so, but Maersk or whatever they are, you know, giant shipping company and talked about how they leased that boat to another company. That company didn’t have any employees on the boats or there’s some other operators involved and did it ended up you’re gonna find a very tangled web, corporate, veiled, protective scenario.

Nestor J. Aparicio  18:58

Nobody wants to take responsibility for knocking down a Key Bridge. Right?

Bill Cole  19:02

I mean, the number the number is staggering, because it’s the cost of the bridge of the cost and cleanup, the cost of the loss of life. The cost of the port shut down the call, you know, like the the cost of tolls that don’t get there. Like there’s just you just keep piling on and piling on a pile. I mean, it’s a massive it’s a massive claim. But I

Nestor J. Aparicio  19:21

wonder how many people today that’s what I was asking. He was a business. How many people like Bill coal a coal roofing own a business, Acme, shipping, Acme, automobile, whatever it is, right? Doesn’t matter. How many of those people are going to wind up being in disarray over the next 60 or 90 days in regards to can’t get that couldn’t get that can’t get that? I don’t know. But that was the thing that came to me which is art there’s the immediate emotional all loss life and all that. What does it mean? You know, what is this tactically mean? And how long does it take to build the bridge? Apparently 1972 It took five years to build that bridge. I you know, how long does it take to clear debris? How long does it take? Like I don’t


Bill Cole  20:01

want to jump I don’t want to jump to that I want to let’s finish this interruption to life. Like there’s there’s a whole bunch of people who are figuring out the rerouting of their deliveries or their steer trucking and it’s gonna add cost, right like it’s going to add cost to stuff. Like if I have to do a job in Dundalk now, like it’s going to take me longer to get there. Dundalk used to be pretty easy for our viewers right? I go around the west side or the south side of the beltway to the east side. Go across the bridge boom in Dundalk not

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:36

gonna go past my kid’s house and thunder. Yeah, well, now I’m probably

Bill Cole  20:39

gonna go north get off a Boston jump over and Dundalk, Gavin You know, like, Yeah, okay. Kind of like how I used to do it. In the old days when I was in Hamilton and I needed to get over there was more like, navigating through the streets to get over there because

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:53


that’s the beauty of Dundalk, baby, that’s the dirty day. Right?

Bill Cole  20:56

So I think there’s there’s a fair amount of like cost impact and, and life impact and, you know, kind of noise that we’re going to ease into this because it’s spring break for the kids. So the traffic is already kind of like last, but yeah, all those people who

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:15

you think it right Bachmann in Pasadena, who would always say to me, amici Costas, anytime it’s easy, it’s go across the bridge right there. And now I say, Hey, Ray, you want to meet me a Costas? Oh, you know, I mean, I gotta go into Highland town and then turn it, you know, then make it right. And then I got a drive through German Hill runs, places, I don’t know. And I gotta go past drug city and stop in.

Bill Cole  21:35

Lots of friends. Lots of friends in Sparrows Point Dundalk. And I


Nestor J. Aparicio  21:40

want to make sure these people still come to cost. That’s I want to make sure I give Reebok like, Hey, dude, you’re coming to Costas, go through the tunnel and get your ass over here and figure it out. That’s Dude, that’s got to be my message to everyone right from my hometown. Yeah,

Bill Cole  21:53

I It’s interesting. So let’s, that’s good. Transition to like the future. Right? So I think if the federal government determine determines that the I think somebody said it was like, that’s I don’t know, if I’ve seen a number of like, economic loss by the port being closed, right? So like, what does it cost every day for our port to be closed? Well, that that makes a really good case, you can do like the math on how much you spend, like the cleaning up. I know everybody just thinks it’s like cleaning up. And when you look at the picture, you think that there’s there’s steel beams that are sitting on the end of that boat, it just kind of looks like little like a little canopy or something that crap. But like, that was a giant road with a bridge with giant steel, like, this cleanup is no joke. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  22:55

it took five years to build it how long it’s gonna take to dredge it out of the harming not going to happen this weekend. And

Bill Cole  23:02


I’m sure you know, they’ll get the Army Corps of Engineers involved. And you know, really smart people will come swooping in and you know, you got to get you just need to clear this much, right? So you can start traffic, you know, maybe you can’t have in and out at the same time, right. But there’s a process. But that is a matter of manpower and equipment. Right? Like how many boats have cranes mounted on them that are strong enough to like, put a guy climb up or they’re burned, burn the steel, pull the steel off of the crane, set it on a barge move on, you know what I mean? Like, that’s the process you’re, you know, I don’t even know enough to understand that underwater part. I’m just thinking about 60

Nestor J. Aparicio  23:49

days, is what you’re thinking 60 days.

Bill Cole  23:53

So that’s, that’s what my wife and I were talking about, like, the shortest possible time is every possible piece of equipment that is in existence, and 24 hours a day with as many men who are qualified, and men, women, whatever, that are qualified to do that work. i Let’s just say you had an unlimited budget, and there was an unlimited number of pieces of equipment and an unlimited number of manpower. I don’t know that you do it in 60 days. I don’t even think that’s possible. It’s just too hard. It’s too much work,

Nestor J. Aparicio  24:33

getting just clear clearing the river way. You’re saying just clearing the debris and


Bill Cole  24:37

you don’t have any rivers. I’ve cleared of bridges, none. So take this for what it’s worth. But I just think about how hard it is to do stuff in the world. And that’s without even people trying to like have oversight and regulatory compliance and all the other sort of concerns. I mean, we can’t allow All this to destroy the ecology of the bay, right like we spend millions of dollars trying to bring the crab population and the oyster population back and then you know, we can’t just come in here and because the Bridgeville just destroy the ecology of the bay, so we have to be mindful of that too. So I think you’re

Nestor J. Aparicio  25:20

smart I hadn’t thought about I mean I did when when we talked about gasoline because you know smell again like the first thing I thought is oh my god now they’re gonna pollute my they’re gonna pollute Dundalk and the harbor and like, oh my god, you know, like, because I thought that that boat would have a lot a lot of oil in it. You made a lot of petroleum in it as it’s leaving port, right, literally 1000s of gallons of gas in that.

Bill Cole  25:45

Okay, I don’t think I don’t think I haven’t heard anything about that as

Nestor J. Aparicio  25:48

well. But that was it was an original. That’s where the ecology and the bay and, you know, the herons on the on the license plates. And you know, all of that came into play for me and thinking about that bill Cole off of coal roofing and Gordian energy is our guest. I’ve got some real farms powering this thing up here. I’m wearing my Costas shirt, eating one of my wife’s chocolate chip cookies that she made for me while I was in Florida, thinking I was going to Epcot and Disney World. Instead, I was on a veranda where Steve shotty and Eric Decosta are running for me like cowards. And then four hours later, the bridge falls and then I’m flying home. And by the way, Bill, it’s opening day this week. You know, I was down doing football and baseball, man, that stuff seems it’s like when my wife got cancer 10 years ago. It’s just like the mean anything. When we have Richard falls and opening day and the Star Spangled Banner, and the new owner and David Rubenstein had a powwow with you know, high powered folks like you on Tuesday night, down at the engineers club in Baltimore talking about things. I mean, it this is a memorable week for our city. Hmm. I mean, like, this is a, you never know when your 911 is going to happen for your town. Oh,

Bill Cole  26:55

stop, you know, we, we, as humans, like, only know two kinds of crisis or like one kind of crisis, I guess. And that’s this like, super horrible crisis. And we automatically put this into that bucket. And, again, you’re

Nestor J. Aparicio  27:16

being unemotional about it, because you looked at the sky and it’s gone. That’s what I say. That’s what I mean, about 911. There is a symbol for until it’s rebuilt, that this tragedy happened. And for anybody that’s going to cost this they know the bridge isn’t there. We’re gonna be thinking about that bridge more than we ever thought about it. And I’ll be honest, I didn’t use it that much. I mean, like, I did not use it that much. I am not the guy that went over 10 times a week like my son did, who worked in an Rondo county lived in Dundalk, right. So I went over that bridge. I don’t know, four times a year, six times a year, maybe because I just never I used the tunnels. I’m a tunnel guy. I lived on cane Street. I mean, I dated a girl from Pikeville and never been through the tunnel and her life. And she was 30 years old. Because why would you go through the tunnel if you live in Pikesville? You take the north side or the south side. So I can’t imagine that people from bikes but one over the bridge much are people from Westminster went over the bridge much where people from anywhere north and west would use that bridge to your point. It was always there was never anybody on the road. There never is anybody on the road. I drive past a WalMart where I grew up. There’s it is a wide road and I always say this to my wife. The road was built because Sparrows Point, the road was built in 1973 or conceived in the late 60s. Because

Bill Cole  28:35

they were the bridge. Right? Same with the bridge. Correct?


Nestor J. Aparicio  28:39

Well, the bridge was built for hazmat as my understanding and let’s do a little Baltimore history here. I

Bill Cole  28:45

bridge doesn’t get built if spares point isn’t on the other side of that. You know what I’m saying?

Nestor J. Aparicio  28:50

I agree with that. I agree with that. 100% But I also would would say this knowing a life without the bridge, knowing the life without the McHenry tunnel, right. So bridge came and 77 tunnel came in at 182 whenever that was you can look it up. I remember the first time I went through that with Pete Elliott to go to a Skipjacks game. How about that we went to a Skipjacks game we went through the tunnel the first time mistake turtle over there. That of course dollar I think it was only 50 cents at the time it goes through the tunnel. But why



didn’t you do to turtle we can just drive down Eastern every case to park take take the bus.

Nestor J. Aparicio  29:27

I don’t have to pretend my dog accent I have a real one. But I would say that part of all of that is this large s that was Sparrows Point. And the reason that all of this stuff got built was Baltimore was a freaking nightmare for everyone. And for anyone going from New York, Philadelphia, Boston to DC or Florida. Baltimore was oh my god, I got to drive through the tunnel. When I get to Baltimore, we’re going to have an hour and a half Like this laptop 1968 Right 1972 That the family roadster you’re taking the family to Walt Disney World yet which wasn’t built on 76. But if you’re going to Florida if you’re in the corridor, Baltimore was a nightmare and the Harbour Tunnel with two lanes and two directions for that kind of traffic for trucking. And for non hazmat, she had to go around the beltway, I’m talking 1971 72. So we were a nightmare transportation city in that way, because of the because of the Harbour Tunnel, the original tunnel, and everyone using it, that the second tunnel got built in the bridge got built. I can’t fathom a life with with one Harbour Tunnel, think about that bill, and the city was vibrant city, million people at the time, right. We’re a lot. There’s a lot more people in, in this congested area than White Marsh and Bel Air and none of that existed 50 years ago. But it’s an amazing part of the transportation history of our city as to how all of this stuff got built and why it got built. It got built because we were a nightmare city from a transportation standpoint, because stuff got built wrong as Barbara Mikulski they were trying to they were trying to run 95 through Kent, right?

Bill Cole  31:09

Yes, I was just gonna say I, we’ve heard stories, and I’ve learned stuff from you and your guests along the way, about the other challenges that have occurred in the road to nowhere and trying to build 95. And yeah, so it’s like, Alright, great segue. Here’s my question. Get the debris cleared, get the port back open. Is it take a year? Does it take two years to do a study to actually decide whether we should put that bridge back there? Whether it should be a tunnel, whether we should build it taller, whether we should move it?

Nestor J. Aparicio  31:50

We’re not gonna build a tunnel, because people aren’t gonna allow that they’re gonna want to see a bridge. I’m telling you. I mean, let’s build Let’s rebuild the trade centers, but let’s make it a subway. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, we’re America, we’re going to erect it. We’d like to erect things. Like I’m telling you. There’s no way Johnny Oh, who lives down there can look at it is going to be involved in we’re not going to build something that looks that looks like powerful. We’re not. Now listen, I think it’s a better idea.


Bill Cole  32:23

But the problem with Well, no, we, we have to do it that way. Because that’s how we’ve always done it. You and I just spent 20 minutes talking about the fact that you drove over it four times a year. It’s always empty. It’s not a heavily trafficked word. Now, I understandably important, right, I understand it serves a purpose. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that there isn’t a problem to solve. There is

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:48

clearly what do you mean? It’s in addition, we’re building a tunnel already cool. What’s wrong with you?

Bill Cole  32:52

I don’t know we’re building a tunnel. But

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:55


listen, somebody smarter, somebody smarter could come on the show six months now and sell me on a tunnel and say, instead of build the bridge, let’s build like, let’s take that money we put into a bridge and build something useful. It’s very, you know, like, next to train point that brings people or whatever, I don’t know. Well, I’m open minded. I’m just saying the popular opinion. You know, for the people who don’t know, tunnel, we got to have reach back. You know, I’m telling you, that’s what’s gonna happen. Because I feel that way. I want to see a structure. I’m an American, erected. Don’t call me subway, you know,

Bill Cole  33:27

my ask is the city and the county, the metro area, is about to get billions of federal Pixy dust sprinkled all that right. You have to do 3050 year planning to use that in the best way. Like, airport was restricted because of bridge heights. You know, you have baybridge Heights, and you have Key Bridge heights. So there are ships that can come in, there are types of boats that can come in. The newest cruise boats can’t come in like so. My opinion. So like, once you get away from all the sadness and challenges is like, this is it this is it. This is the this is the pivot day, like the model of Baltimore’s going to change because everything

Nestor J. Aparicio  34:23

you ever didn’t like about the Key Bridge, you can now you can now say, Hey, we’re 50 years further on. We can we can we can rethink this. That’s a beautiful sentiment. I mean, like, that’s something I hadn’t thought about. And

Bill Cole  34:36

it has this ripple effect of Wait a second. If I can get bigger boats in there, that means I got to revamp the port. So there’s another couple billion that goes into revamping the port and wait a second. If you can take those boats and you have port facilities for that size boats. You know what we should build right next to that, the crap that goes on those votes. So we never wanted to put our manufacturing plant in Baltimore because we couldn’t put our product on a boat big enough to economically get it out to sea.


Nestor J. Aparicio  35:09

But let’s move our business to Maryland.

Bill Cole  35:11

Oh my gosh, whoa, wait a second. Like that’s to me. You know, with those trips I go on, and all this other stuff like there are these things that happen,

Nestor J. Aparicio  35:24

that we have that other cities have no ability for that right before that Cincinnati could never add this to their portfolio. Right? Literally, right.

Bill Cole  35:33


But before that, there’s this catastrophe, right? Like, everyone in Baltimore is doing a good job. We’re trying hard, we’re winning despite ourselves, we have a public safety problem, we have this problem, we have that but we have all this stuff. And you know, people have said, Maybe we should just file bankruptcy, let’s let’s clean the slate. You know, let’s start with a clean slate. All these things. But this is this is our incident. This is our catastrophe. Like thankfully,

Nestor J. Aparicio  36:05

you know, it was I called it our 911 A minute ago, you got mad at me. So please don’t because it’s not it wasn’t the loss of human life is still sick. Like I, I’m just saying, from a visual standpoint, for me crying about it five times on Tuesday, and not even understanding why. And I’m not even in Maryland. And I’m about to cry about it again, talking to you about it. That that is that’s the emotional attachment to the structure that 830 In the morning, I’m in a hotel room sobbing, and I have no idea why I you know, like, I think there’s a thing here that once this, the emotions die down this conversation we’re having right now is going to be no big part of Baltimore positive. I don’t think there’s a whole lot of people in the next year, year and a half I’m not going to talk to who aren’t going to have some more educated opinion about it than they have today or yesterday. And, and I know everybody was a boat expert, and, you know, like all that on Tuesday. But I think once that settles down this notion of we have a blank slate. Right. I mean, that’s how I feel about David Rubenstein with the Orioles like, Hey, man, you come in you can you can he keeps saying fresh start start again, start again, start again. This is tragic. It’s awful. It’s but to your point. All right, what were the challenges with the bridge that we would have changed if we could have altered it. Now let’s get the smartest people we can and make this as let’s make this better for the next 50 years. Right? I mean that. That should be there’ll be a pivot point on that. Not today. But there’ll be a pivot point on that in the next 30 days I bet

Bill Cole  37:50

in I don’t know if it’s 30 days we could hope but the bureaucracy like like your point about the good job that they did a handling the press conferences, as the day went on, the number of people at the press Cafritz is kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And every politician and tab was standing in front of their microphones by the time the end of the day game. But so there’s a lot of people are gonna have opinions, right? That to your point, the people in Dundalk are gonna want to see a breeze, you’re

Nestor J. Aparicio  38:19

gonna be a lot of people with opinions with no expertise, like, like me, not you because you know, a little bit more.

Bill Cole  38:27

You know, I just think one example. And people might really hate this, but like, you know, they’re still trying to put this the maglev train, you know, to get from DC to New York? Will I mean, getting through and around Baltimore is a problem for the Maglev. Like it, you got to put it somewhere, right? It’s got to go somewhere. I don’t know. We’re about to build something to cross that span of the river. Maybe the Maglev should be part of the project. Maybe it’s a road train, you know, combo deal. Again, your your great. Rich, an elder showed up at your door and handed you a briefcase full of billions of dollars to fix your property. Yeah. Like, like, and it’s, it’s what they should do. Right. It’s number one. It’s an interstate number two, it’s it’s about you know, national commerce. So the government, I’m not disparaging the fact that the federal government should pay for it. I’m just saying that when this has happened in other places, if you use this and you put thought into it, it becomes the backbone of your your 20 year plan. Right like forget everything else we had thought of too before today.

Nestor J. Aparicio  39:49

Yeah, I don’t want to be crass, but it’s an opportunity right in the end, it’ll, it’ll become 100% 100%.

Bill Cole  39:53

And look, again. I know I’m not no i In the end, the loss of life is sad. And I feel for those guys and I know the company and we know you know, like, That is horrible. But our Key Bridge police also saved a dozen, two dozen, three dozen lives. You know, like they drilled they knew what to do the call came in, they told them stop the traffic. I’m already here, done stop that. You know, like, you can watch the video and see how many at 130 in the morning cars were going back and forth across that bridge.

Nestor J. Aparicio  40:30


And then it stopped and within 20 seconds the bridge was gone. Yes. So I it’s almost miraculous really. Right. Yeah, it’s miraculous is I

Bill Cole  40:39

mean, it really really is. That’s an I you know, that’s just so it’s let’s break

Nestor J. Aparicio  40:44

before I cry if you want to talk to baseball, or you want to do any of that, because I I feel like we’re gonna be going at this a long time. And I feel like we it’s pretty deep dive for this is my by the way, if you’re listening, it’s the first conversation I’ve had since I got back from Florida. Luke and I have been covering the NFL owner. But Luke’s been covering the NFL owners meetings, Eric the cost and Steve a shot he was slithering like cowards, running away from me in the middle of the night. I’ll be writing about that and talking about it because it happened. And I’ve also had a great time with baseball. Peter Angeles died over the weekend. You want to mention that or anything?

Bill Cole  41:18

I mean, I, I did I saw somebody I don’t forget, forget whose piece it was, or maybe it was a tweet or whatever, just about the double sided of that of his of their life. And, you know, like, I’ve, when you and I have talked about that in the past, I understand how personally their family has impacted you and decisions that have impacted you. You know, what


Nestor J. Aparicio  41:43

I said publicly, did you hear my peace with Luke because I Luke was like really happy like Luke and I’ve been together. So we did our piece, and and it came back and I’ve never looked 15 years. And he said to me, I just want you to know, like, as a friend, as your partner, employee, whatever I am to you. So I thought you really had an appropriate tone about that piece. And I said, I’m 55 years old. I’m not going to jump up and down and do dingdong the witches, dad and like, I don’t. I’m not really proud of how I handled the Bob per se thing. The day he died. I was calling the hospital to make sure he was dead. To confirm it. You know what I mean? Like I was, you know, 30 years ago, I was kid right? I really refrained from anything because he died. I was at a pool in Tampa. My wife text me and the wn st Tex game, and then the floodgates open. Everybody’s hitting me about and on a Saturday afternoon. And I didn’t say anything I said I got if you’re coming here for me to jump up and down or like pop champagne or like I’ll do that when the sale happens. But I’m not doing that over his death. I mean, he did horrible things to me but I stuff that I That’s so ridiculous that it’s so petty that you wouldn’t believe it. I was staying down in Sarasota. There was a point where the Orioles got our reservations cancelled from my company at the hotel. The hotel said you can’t stay here. Because the oral said so like crazy stuff that I mean stuff that like if I had Peter Angelos is a lawyer. I would have sued Peter Angela, but I I wrote this because like Saturday, people were forgetting that the truth. The truth of the stadium was built before he bought the team. He didn’t save the team. It came with a 30 year lease people. Reporters reported cockamamie. Yeah, but reporters were inaccurately reporting his life achievements. He’s done a lot. He did a lot of good things, say all of that he didn’t save the team for the city. So when I wrote to someone, and the Baltimore banner wrote in his obituary, and this, this slayed me, Angelo’s never punched down. Let’s stop me, unlike Hold on. That’s not part of his legacy. I mean, and then also in the same story, there were eight different people that said, they declined to comment on his death. Like, right. So I wrote back to the banner folk, and how many people read it. But I said first thing, he didn’t say the team for the city, and he punched down every chance he got once he wasn’t punching up. Why do you think no one will give you a quote, they’re still afraid of him and he’s dead. And that really spoke to me. And I thought, what was his legacy in my life, other than people asking me for a quote when he died? And I said, he terrorized and traumatized a whole lot of people. He was a bully and a coward. But aren’t all bullies. That’s how I remember him. And I said, and I knew on the day he died, you and everyone in the media would falsely credit him with saving the team for Baltimore, which is pure bullshit. because it is he did plenty of good things that are true history. No need to polish it dead billionaires tarnished legacy. It was tarnished for a reason. There were many needless victims of his acts, many, and I was one of them. He didn’t need to treat me the way he treated me. He enjoyed it. And that’s that, you know, so that’s where I leave it. But I also leave it with what week, I mean, opening day, the Bridge City, the worldwide stage, like all of that coming in, at a time when everybody else has beaten us up, Bill, but I know when you and I get together, like really privately, and we get together and we talk we talk about rising Baltimore, right. We we don’t talk about there was another victim last night. There was no shooting last night there was other crime last night. I mean, I had a woman on the plane with me from Parkville. For two hours back from Orlando. I caught her taken a dozen shots at Baltimore City in a two hour plane ride. Even though if you say where are you from? She’d say Baltimore, right? I heard all of the right wing. She she was coming from visiting her mother in what’s that community were all the Trumpers live in the NOS something in the I have to look it up in Florida, the noplace old people go when they do golf carts, and they like all Florida. Correct. But there’s an error. But she had a dozen cheap shots for the city that were all the fox 45 Like all of the talking, I can went back down there. I go into city. Meanwhile, she’s crying about the Cambridge I ain’t went back to like, it’s an amazing juxtaposition. And here’s the other thing I learned. And this is an interesting thing too about baseball. Because you always say about baseball being in trouble. I’m gonna go back to your thing from two weeks ago. We’ll get to the bridge and we’re doing serious business here. Yeah, I went to Fort Myers, because I got to tell you this because if I don’t tell you this, I won’t tell you this. Right. And I won’t get it on the on the radio because I want to get this on the radio because it’s important because it was an incredible observation. You mentioned old white people in Fort Myers and whatever. I went down to Fort Myers for the Orioles Red Sox game. On Thursday night. Now this was the night DeSantis showed up. Right? At a picture with DeSantis. Right. Did you see that? Ron DeSantis showed up at Fort Myers at the baseball game, Red Sox Orioles and the spring training, meaningless game beautiful park, little jet fuel blue park right by the Fort Myers airport. And I got there early, walked around Walk, walk, walk, walk, walk. I’m wearing my white socks, walk, walk, walk some friends were there. David Richardson was there and said hello to him pictures, walk, walk, walk and sort of walking around. And I looked around and I looked around and I saw Ron DeSantis. And I looked around and I walked around and I walked around. And then I started counting people who had skin darker than mine, which isn’t hard. You know, especially I didn’t get out in the sun much in Florida. Bill, I walked the stadium. I counted nine African Americans and couple of might have been Caribbean, you know, descent or whatever. Just people with that were not Caucasian, that would not you would not look at them and say that’s a Caucasian. There were nine people at a Red Sox Orioles game with I don’t know, 7000 people. I literally went everywhere. I walked the whole bowl. And I’m like, wow, because you and I had talked about baseball’s problems and stuff like that, this opening day and for the city. I just hope that baseball team can find an outreach mechanism that five years from now, the Camden Yards doesn’t look that way, which it usually does. It’s not nine, but it’s but because we are a city of diversity and stuff like that. I would just hope I that’s my little baseball statement for the growth of baseball, because I don’t believe baseball can grow and be sustained at a city like Baltimore downtown, unless they can find a way to recruit the real community, not the disgruntled Hispanics and Towson via Dundalk who have cousins in the Hall of Fame that are going to watch the game on TV no matter what I love baseball. But I’m talking about reaching new people. I hope that for our baseball side bridges sigh tragedy just for opening day. My statement for the new owners when I write to him is I hope this is an outreach for everybody. Not just the people Peter made enemies with who love baseball, but that somewhere along the line there’ll be young people who come down and get engaged with baseball and for the good of the city and for the good of the franchise and and really for the spirit of the community. You know, I mean like the Orioles, the ravens, there’s a few things we the Key Bridge as we found out on Tuesday, few things that we that bind us that bring us together, and I hope that the baseball team can can give us that feeling again, you know, because as I go back there were many needless victims of peace You’re Angeles. I’m one of them in my audience was one of them too, because of the access of all of it. So that’s my baseball and you’re not going opening day. I


know. It’s gonna rain.

Nestor J. Aparicio  50:10

It’s supposed to be like 70 on Sunday, you want to go to the game? No, I won’t be at what point are you going to say yes to me to go to a game? Because I’m gonna say yes to you. Because even when I buy a ticket beater Angeles, I get the money anymore, so I’m willing to pay $18 and go down. I might even get a 50 beer because I’m not pissed anymore. You know what I mean? Like, I’m not giving the money to the gypsies. I’m giving it to the saint who came with $1.8 billion to like, fix this or try to fix it and part of fixing it is people like me being involved so I can’t tell you to come down and and I don’t go so I’m gonna try. I got my chores, you know, polished up you know, right.

Bill Cole  50:50


Let’s find one of them. 1230 businessman special days.

Nestor J. Aparicio  50:54

I got an invitation for you ready? We’re gonna end on this. I have an invitation for you ready? On Tuesday, April 9. Tuesday, April 9, I am reconvening the Maryland crab cake tour. Are you familiar with the Maryland crab cake tour? Bilkul maybe? Okay, well, let me tell you about the Maryland crab cake tours presented by the Maryland lottery good folks like cold roofing and and royal farms and wise markets and all of our great sponsors as well. I’ll be giving away 10 times the cash but here’s the deal. The Orioles play the Red Sox at two o’clock next Tuesday the knife. I think it’s opening day for the Red Sox. I think it is two o’clock and I’m going to be doing the Maryland crab cake tour. 11 till two so here’s the thing. You don’t have to buy ticket. You can’t cross the bridge, you can have cake tunnel, one of the tunnels, find your way over. And I’m gonna do 11 to two at cost this that damn I get there a little earlier now because of the bridge and I want to do some bridge stuff there that day. And then I’m gonna knock it off right around 150 And we’re gonna like, pack the equipment up. And at two o’clock we’re gonna sit watch the Orioles play the Red Sox on the night. What do you think in combat? There’s your afternoon I gave it. You said it. And whether it’s nice inside it’s it’s almost like skydome inside of constants. It can’t rain or anything. So what do you think it comes down? I’m

Bill Cole  52:10

gonna I’m gonna do that typical thing where I’m sort of non committal. Maybe it will make you feel like you know, I got other stuff to do and I gotta clear it up with the people the powers that be you know, love me

Nestor J. Aparicio  52:22

no more is what they’ll call this here is called roofing a Gordian energy. tell folks what you do for people’s roofs so well, we can get that plug in for you.


Bill Cole  52:31

We are 100% gearing up for a big spring summer trying to clean it. We actually had a winter this year. Right. So you know, a lot, a lot of roofs got messed up. And solar is big. Everybody wants solar now. So yeah, I mean, fundamentally, we look at roofs and figure out how to extend the life, replace them, maybe put solar on them, you know, just try and keep you keep you dry, and then maybe generate some electricity if you want to do that too.

Nestor J. Aparicio  53:01

Nice. Well, I’ll see you next week. Hope to see you on the ninth. I am Nestor. We are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore. It’s opening day week, Luke and I got a bunch of stuff waiting for you Baltimore positive. I will have some more thoughts on NFL owners meetings and all of that, but we’re gonna be doing a lot of bridge conversation around here during just just an amazing, amazing week and I still haven’t seen it yet. So I gotta get over to Dundalk and do that. Stay with us. We’re Baltimore positive as always

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