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Twenty five (plus) years of baseball friendship and Orioles chatter and they’re finally in first place!

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Allen McCallum was our ballpark reporter and Orioles insider before we even had a radio station. The two guys who watched Jeffrey Maier reach over the Yankee Stadium wall from the right field bleachers together 27 years ago in the ALCS reconvene for an all-too-rare conversation about Orioles progress and magic.


team, baltimore, years, money, elias, orioles, weeks, alan, baseball, tampa bay rays, henderson, players, win, move, grich, john, talking, people, american league, new york times


Nestor Aparicio, Allen McCallum

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Looking back at W and S T, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive we are positively taking the show back on the road merrily. crabcake tour was in Ocean City last week with lots of elected officials. You hear all that Baltimore positive this week as well as finding it out in our podcast audio vault, all the brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery. I was giving these away and I had some lucky ones. I’m wearing my Coco sure we actually had $100 Winner Coco, Coco. So two months ago, the mayor wanted to go back to Coco’s we’re gonna be a Pappas on the 29th. We’ll get back to Coco’s in in October. We’re gonna be fadeless in September as well. We were at Pappas and Glenburnie on the 29th and Rondo county executive Steuart Pittman will be chatting him up and then a fade please on the 15th with Dr. Jenkins from a compensate as well as a new basketball head coach but former alum Larry STEWART So that’s a fade these on the 15th of September also brought to you by our friends at wind donation 866 90 nation, buy one, get one free buy to get two free and get some windows man I got them. Here we go. It was a great, great decision add value to my home certainly changed everything in regard to air conditioning and heating and value. So shout out the window nation, we appreciate them. I appreciate this guy. He’s had some, some off the field hardships that have kept him away from being on the program as often as he wants was, as I go through and celebrate 25 years. And Alan I hope you like the cupcake logo here and the Disney sort of fireworks that we have your alum McCallum has been our baseball Insider. Back in the days of watching Jeffrey Mayer, I tried to explain your friend Mack down at the convention center that you and I were together with Scott Garcelle. in left field with Jeffrey Mayer, we clearly our vantage point allowed us to see his arms extend out over the wall. We did not need a replay. We knew what had happened. But here we are all these years later, Alan, and you did a lot of jail time around here, you know in regard to Oriole baseball and bad teams, you and I fighting about who sucks worse. This is a whole different thing. And it’s been months since I’ve had you on you your family hope you’re doing well. Thanks, Dan at the Kennedy Center rockin but I get around town and people bring you up to me. And they’re like, What happened to that guy? And I’m like, he’s watching baseball right now. And as amazed as any of the rest of us that this team and what a day for you to come on 30 games over 500 You’re waiting for them to be 30 games over 500 I think you had some EA to come out next time I do your show the Orioles have to be 30 games over 500 I’d say wow. And you’re never going to do show again then please it it was nice knowing you. It is amazing that this team is this team right


Allen McCallum  02:37

to be here at the end of August. And to have a team or near the end of August we have a team 30 games over 500 is just spectacular. Yeah, 14 losing seasons, a lot of tumult. In between, we had that nice run with with buck and the boys. What, basically 12 through 16. And then well, I was about to say some some lean years and we certainly had them but if you told me that it would be three years into the Elias era when they would start to be good finish over 500 And then the next year, they would absolutely dominate the American League and the American League East it that I would have I never would have believed it. But everything that was promised everything that was advertised, Mike Elias a sigma doll and their team have done and I think I said to you a few weeks ago over text that this is the best young crop of Oreos players that I personally have ever seen come up and something that looks like it could be sustainable for a long time and we might not have even seen the best ones with Jackson Holliday has been cursed at ticketed for Camden Yards and 2024 which is the time I think the true world series window for them will open. This team could could be a juggernaut for another three for the next three four years. Oh well.

Nestor Aparicio  04:09

Well, why? Well, well, well. They’re the best team the American League. They’re the second best team in baseball. They’re running away as we speak and that can change they got the Blue Jays in town they got the bums from Colorado and the White Sox I mean these have nots that they did a good job of taking care of Oakland despite Fujis efforts in the middle game but like they’re gonna win 100 games right like they’re gonna do something only a handful of teams have ever done ever since 1954 i Why Why do they get some sort of Mulligan this year about not not beating the Astros in the playoffs like I don’t I’m there are no Yankees are aren’t a Red Sox the boogeyman is not coming. Like i i This feeling that this is a five year thing. This is a one year thing at this point for me. They’re here and now and they’re Healthy. And that doesn’t mean that they needed to go sign Verlander at the deadline or get even spending any of John’s precious money that they don’t have poor Oreos. It’s $200 million a year off their television contract for 18 years now. And but for me, I, I expect them to do well in October, I expect to be really disappointed if they don’t do well. And I at this point, Alan having you on right now, and I wouldn’t have said this. Fourth of July. Certainly not at the All Star break, right. We’re getting it September next week. The ravens are out of fake football beginning this weekend. It’s September, they’re in first place and they’re up there, they’re trending in the right direction. For me, like I will be disappointed if they’re playing baseball on October 3, fourth, or fifth. I think at this point, this whole like wrapping up a by wrapping up the division finishing that that will go a long way to thinking they can win the World Series. You know what, let me let me believe they won’t win the World Series if they collapse here the next six weeks and finish five games out and have to go play baseball that week. Right like the buy thing that changes my mind about a lot of this because it eliminates one of the major hurdles, which is game one. First game of the playoffs and you’re down. Oh, one, and you’re looking up? I think it’s different the second round? I really do.

Allen McCallum  06:19

Sure I agree with you. So let’s break it down. What Why do I say that they are unlikely to win the World Series this year. They’re three games up on the race. They aren’t can they win the division? Absolutely. Could the rays come back and and take it from them, which means they’d have to be a wildcard? Yes, that is also possibility. That’s not the problem. The problem is a matter of math and innings that Kramer Bradish, who has been spared nothing short of spectacular.

Nestor Aparicio  06:56


Gibson hasn’t been good lately, right. I mean, Flaherty haven’t been good at all, really. But

Allen McCallum  07:01

the young guys that are the future for this team, have already exceeded their earnings limits. And Tyler Wells is the ultimate example that this guy had. You looked at all of his numbers, and they were the best in the American League. And he’s in the minor leagues right now trying to reset, because endings are a real thing now. And in previous iterations of baseball, you pushed guys, but in this version of Major League Baseball teams are very afraid to push their pitchers. And it creates situations where when they hit their innings limits, that’s it becomes a really dramatic issue. So yes, the six man rotation was

Nestor Aparicio  07:44

it for Billy Martin and Oakland.

Allen McCallum  07:48

For Johnny oats in Baltimore, I mean, right? So I mean, yes, the six man rotation helps, yes, the off days that they’re going to have as they go through September will help. If they win the division, having a buyer will help. I’m not telling you, it’s impossible for them to win the World Series. But the fact that the guy’s going in will already be six weeks past their innings limits, and we’ll have to push for another month. That’s that’s real. That’s a lot. And my concern would be, if they do get farther into the playoffs, if they win the World Series, great, whatever, nobody cares. But to push that far. I feel like this season is the season where you get them to the point where they know what it’s like to get through a full season. And then 2024 They take that next step into October to go deep. Add to that


Nestor Aparicio  08:37

I love the idea being disappointed by losing the American League Championship Series of this group, but I don’t necessarily feel and it’ll all be about how they look how they’re trending, how they’re pitching, how their arms feel how the bats are doing who’s healthy who’s not right as the Ravens about Marlon Humphrey, right like last week, they’re happy this week. They’re not so happy right? And I think we were happy before Mark Akers took the the pitch on the wrist. I mean, I still convinced them 12 A would have been better right. So but deal Hall coming back john means coming back right now. Grayson Rodriguez looking like something right now. And we’re six weeks out of a playoff game. I I’m starting to buy more of what they’re selling. Alan, I really am. Are you there? Yes, I am.

Allen McCallum  09:24

I’m sorry. I you froze for a couple of minutes for a minute there. I think I know what you think I know where you were going. What I what I would also add to this is that you look at the bullpen. Bautista has been spectacular. nothing short of spectacular, but everyone including Cano past him has been has had moments of question. CNL Perez looks like he’s finding himself towards the end season. Cano is trying to figure it out again after being legendary Are you for the first six weeks? But Baumann you mentioned Fuji,

Nestor Aparicio  10:06

Webb’s gotten some looks right? Webs look

Allen McCallum  10:08


good coulomb who helped carry this carry the bullpen until he got hurt. You hope he can come back strong. There are a lot of questions in the bullpen that are going to make it tough to get through it. So much of this is about the pitching ultimately. And guys having to find their way through the next five weeks till they get to the postseason. It just feels like it’s a stretch to to expect this team of young guys and where they’ve been to get into November. And carrying team is impossible. Of course it isn’t. And John, if they can get back john means if Kyle Gibson can find the fountain of April and it in October if Jack celerity can call on the ghosts of three or four years ago. Guys get hot in the in October, November. That’s certainly not impossible. But they’re going to have to figure out a way to to piece it together. Which that which in a way that feels a little harder than then it feels harder to expect that to happen than to say, this is a year they’re going to they’ve put the American League on notice and next year they’re gonna go for broke.

Nestor Aparicio  11:22

They had a lot of things go wrong. I mean, Bradish took the line drive right away. You know Mullins gets hurt mountcastle advertigo Like it just just you know, Gunnar Henderson, this could this this was a kid this could have gone either way. Right? It did go either way. For Grayson Rodriguez, a lot of things went wrong for him. The fact that the alcohol as it pitched is kind of wrong for them, you know,

Allen McCallum  11:44

horrible for the first six weeks, but the Ryan Oh

Nestor Aparicio  11:47

Hearns and the McCanns. And these other Aaron Hicks, I mean, just these other contributors, let alone Mateo and Frasier and guys sort of around the edge of the roster of what we now consider to be the superstar center of the team of rutschman. And Henderson. Right and and probably not far off with now castling and Mullins that you you feel their impact. And I mentioned Santander right.


Allen McCallum  12:14

That’s what’s so spectacular about what’s happening this season. You look at you look at where they are. And usually someone is having an MVP season. Someone is having. Wow, I’ve never seen them do this before they’re having their best year. I guess maybe you could argue that Gunnar Henderson in the last two months is having that kind of impact. But this is his it’s Antoine dares best gear. It’s not mountcastle mountcastle has been on an amazing tear. Everybody’s just contributing and the whole feels. I don’t want to say bigger than the sum of the parts. But the team just clicks in ways when one thing falls apart. Something else picks up the slack that the dynamics of that as a team is really special. It really is

Nestor Aparicio  13:02

hard to measure. You measure it by date. They’re 30 games over 500. That is the measurement right, literally.

Allen McCallum  13:08

Now, you talk about the collapse of the Yankees and the Blue Jays not getting everything they can out of themselves and the Tampa Bay Rays and the amount of pitching injuries they’ve had. And when we talk about water Franco right now, all the things that happened in the race, those things have contributed to where the Orioles are. And can you expect those things to happen in 2425? No, you can’t. But as I said, the odds are very good that the Orioles are just scratching the surface of how good this team can be. I’m not saying take for granted what where you are. You’re not trying to win but I’m saying I think reasonable expectations for what could happen in the next six weeks in terms of how the wear and tear on this pitching staff will impact them going forward is a real thing to consider.

Nestor Aparicio  13:54


Allen McCallum has been our baseball insider movies many years since the mid to early 90s. We’ve been at this a long, long, long time. A lot of hours a lot of Days of Our Lives gray hairs and all of that stuff going back to Robbie Alomar hitting home runs and Cleveland were together and the the the Jeffrey Mayer incident, let alone 1214 and 16 around here, which still feels like a pretty friggin long time ago. Allen, the mike Elias decision and listen I’m not going to run you ragged on John Angelo’s to the stadium or then moving to Nashville or any of the other stadium lease stuff. I’m just gonna stay on the field with you. We can tackle that in the offseason or whenever the time is right on all that but there is a part of this where and you read my fu to John angelos, which is richly deserved some of the finest work I would say that the decision making around the franchise in regard to signing rutschman value. The way they tiptoed around the deadline the way he’s crying poor in the New York Times I like all of that that goes into it. The one thing that can be said is he brought Mike Elias in here, at least so far. And as I’ve said, Elias hasn’t had to go down the hallway and ask for money. Right? Elias went in and said, We’re going to save your money, we’re going to work cheap, we’re going to build up the farm, we’re going to invest in the Caribbean, like all of those things, which are five cents on the dollar in the beginning, until it bears fruit, you have to pay Adley rutschman, you have to pay. You’re already got Heston Kurdsat, and a holiday going to the Hall of Fame, they’re going to get paid to. So like all of these guys need to get paid. And Kansas City configured out, right? I mean, that thing’s initio it’s destroyed again, I don’t him talking about the stadium and the money and the gambling and the battery in Atlanta, and I’ll hear all of that I even hear the Yankees and Red Sox, that it’s that it’s not fair, the whole system isn’t fair. Like we all buy into that. But that’s all the more reason to win here. And now because the boogey man is not coming to get you. But the other part of this is, how do you explain Mike Elias to people like Tate for years and years, and again, if Mike Flanagan could be resurrected, sit here and say the old man never let me pick the best players. So we were always picking the 25th best player, because he didn’t want to pay anybody in the top 10 At that time, amazingly million five, but he was happy to give Chris Davis do under million, like so that’s why we didn’t get tons of great players. Because even when we sucked, slot, above slot, all of that stuff, but Elias has gone in and taking the best baseball players and then somehow fished out the other side to get these guys to the big leagues. And he can look at a player and figure out whether the guy’s gonna be able to make it or not. And that’s, that’s an that’s an uncanny gift that that’s something every sports franchise would love to be able to do is to pick the good apples.

Allen McCallum  16:57

Well, and let’s look at it right. This isn’t this didn’t just start happening in Baltimore. He has a track record. It happened in St. Louis. It happened in Houston. And and his team has come to Baltimore and they’ve done very much the same thing. Look, yeah, we’re John Angelo’s. I don’t know the man and I don’t know what. How smart.

Nestor Aparicio  17:20

Well, the way you had a press pass all those years. Did you ever come in contact with him? Two times. And I never did have

Allen McCallum  17:28

not to have a conversation. But Kieran there. Yeah. Whatever, whatever he is, or isn’t. I think, at least for a moment in time, he was smart enough to realize that all the things his father did prior to him taking over, didn’t really work. Maybe buck. Maybe you want to talk about Dan do cat. They had a nice little run. But for sustainability. It didn’t really work. And finding Elias and sigma at all guys who had a track record, but not to do it on their own. To bring them in was a stroke of genius. Will that sustain? I don’t know. So, yes, Elias seems to be a brilliant finder of talent. Now, you mentioned you’re talking about keeping players and the $200 million player look, you talked about Kansas City, I’ll also throw in the trash Chicago Cubs. Not only did they keep not keep those young guys from those amazing runs, you look at the track record. Those guys went other places and didn’t succeed. Those guys fell apart. Look at look at the guys that left Kansas City. And most of their careers went south pretty quickly. After signing big contracts.


Nestor Aparicio  18:46

Nobody that can’t sit if you just go into the Hall of Fame, right? Like Perez may

Allen McCallum  18:49

be the only one He’s one they kept. You look at the Chicago Cubs and the team they won with in 16. And with the exception of maybe Anthony Rizzo who’s having his worst year right now. Javier Baez, Chris Bryant, you look at all the big stars, those guys have gone away and done nothing. So there’s something to be said about how much longer past those initial six or seven years do you want to keep these guys and commit to them long term? Am I saying it’s gonna happen with Gunner Hamish, Natalie rutschman. And Jackson Holly has to Kristen. I’m not saying that at all. But I’m saying baseball in the 21st century values the young guy and is it better to be the New York Yankees and and sign all the big talent for crazy money? Or is it better to be the Tampa Bay Rays where you can get the most out of you out of guys that you can and jettison them and keep bringing guys up? I think part of

Nestor Aparicio  19:46

nationals are a great example that right like they just said no thank you to all the big money and they’re retooling it and four years from now they hope to be the Orioles again, right?

Allen McCallum  19:56


I think and I don’t know Mike Elias to say that For sure, but it is much, it’s hard to imagine he would come to Baltimore and think that he’s going to get $1,000,000,000.05 years from now to sign for five key players, I can’t imagine that he actually believes that. So if you’re coming to Baltimore, and you’re Mike Elias, you have to believe I’m going to build up this farm system. And I’m going to build a pipeline so that we can be much more like the Tampa Bay Rays, then the Los Angeles Dodgers or the New York Yankees, so that when the time comes, we make smart trades, or we let guys go, and we get the compensation pick. And we bring up the next guy from our pipeline. And that’s how we sustain any kind of success. So whether John Angelos is turned out to be the Messiah of Baltimore, which I think is extremely unlikely, or, or just another Carpetbagger, who’s looking to milk the organization for all they’re worth, Mike Elias, it would seem to me seems to be a man who understands that the only way to continue long term success in Baltimore is to build and manage his team much more like the Tampa Bay Rays. And I’ve said this to you before, that means that Baltimore Orioles fans are going to be disappointed because they can’t latch on to guys, like they did with Frank and Brooks and Eddie and cow and Jim Palmer. It means you have to be in love with the next man up as that as Adley rutschman and Gunnar Henderson go out the door five years from now.

Nestor Aparicio  21:26

Well, we experienced that with machine I mean, you were taught the greatest oriels of class classes of all time. I’m a little older than you right so I’m 55 this year. I remember 73 456 that range, right and Weaver and the Oreo way was every year we’re going to get a new player every year. We’re going to bring Grich up this year blancher then Grich then Bumbry then Coggins, then Baylor that you know, that’s how all and I just gave you a name of a pipeline reached our won the Triple Crown in the international league and and Gretchen Blanchard were in his way, they had to let Bobby Grich go and make a lot of money in California to make room for rich down or right. And then descripting kid came along after like, so all of it was all cyclical from a strategic there was an oriental way. But part of that was they had a a wealth of young talent. The last time was 50 years ago, when you’re talking about Baylor Grich Coggins, like guys that made a lot of money that had all star numbers. And even Davey Johnson, right, like the fact that he was here and gone during that era and hitting 40, home runs and, and Atlanta, that happened because Grich was ready to go. It was like next guy up and it wasn’t about millions of dollars. It was about you’re 28 you’re 22 Come on in kid, right? Yeah, we want the younger, we want the younger guy, younger guy. Now it’s cheaper guy, cheaper guy, cheaper guy. I would say this, Allen and I’m not. If I own the team, I’d have a lot of the similar problems John Angeles would have about Baltimore, the market baseball, fixed income, all of that nonsense. Now, I’d be occurring, I’d be the toast of the town in Baltimore, right? Like he’s trying to move the team screwing around offending people. He doesn’t need to offend core customers. You know, if you’re really not moving, like, get your best deal with the government. But don’t be a jerk. Don’t Don’t be a jerk to Dan cut. He doesn’t know how not to be a jerk. It’s pretty obvious. We’ve watched his act with

Allen McCallum  23:26

the books twice and then never bothered to do it. And then wonder why people think you’re, let’s say

Nestor Aparicio  23:30

to the New York Times, if we open the books, and the New York Times guy says, well, then you promise to open the books. That’s why I’m here. Because I’m a reporter. And you promised there is a point with rutschman. And Henderson, specifically right here now at 30. games over 500 where they are to say, All right, let’s get a couple 100 million out the door to keep them around for a year or two or three, you know, like whenever we need to do to get them wealthy enough that they stay here 234 years past their by them till they’re 2830 Whatever we need to do that if you believe in it. Today’s the day to do that today. Not tomorrow, not after the parade in October that you don’t think it’s coming that I’m more bullish than you. And that’s kind of an interesting thought that if you had $1 and I had $1, I’d be more willing to bet $1 on them winning the World Series this year, because I see this as they don’t know any better. I’ve watched this before I watched. I watched this with the Ravens players and Owen when they won, and I watched it in 13 with the Ravens players after they got their ass kicked four times and Flacco is throwing interceptions stolen touchdown passes, and they’re dropping it. I saw this with the 83 Orioles after 79 and 80 and 81 and 82 and they were just as good, if not better and they want an 83 and then Rifkin never won again. Right. And Ray Lewis had to wait for the last day of his career to win again, right so I don’t, but the lease the Mojo rutschman Henderson, long term all of that You know that’s Have a little faith believe a little bit in what you’re doing. And if they don’t, they’re gonna get very quickly into this Manny Machado land of. I don’t like it here you’re a jerk. And I’m not I’m not spending the rest of my I’ll go to y’all go to play for real franchise that wants to win, not one that’s going to the New York Times pussyfooting around and bad mouthing me before I even get the money. Literally, you first


Allen McCallum  25:24

off? You’re absolutely right. This seem to be too young and too naive not to understand that they shouldn’t win this year, that is entirely possible. And no, no one would rather I would love to see that more than me. So let’s keep that on the table as possibility. But you’re also right in the sense that if there if there’s any time to try to get these guys to sign long term, today’s the day no question about it. Dr. Henderson, you’re going up to right now and saying we want to keep you here for 10 years. 250 $300 million. Let’s do it. That said the Tampa Bay Rays did that with water Franco. And they’re they’re they’re thinking about it right now. Right for other reasons. And I’m not implying that anybody else is

Nestor Aparicio  26:11

no Seattle, Lamar Jackson thing goes to because when this money comes, right, you’re a different you’re different guy. And that was for Aaron, judge in New York. And for you know, for anybody that gets that money? It’s, it’s a it’s a different gig for you. Right? I got it. The guy in New York found that out when he stopped playing in Miami in front of nobody, right?

Allen McCallum  26:32

Absolutely. And it seems that Elias has gone and found players with good heads on their shoulders, who are not just about the money, we’ll see. Money does

Nestor Aparicio  26:46


gonna be about the money at some point, right. But

Allen McCallum  26:49

I will say this mean, when they drafted athlete or before they drafted athlete, when they were talking about it, I said, I wouldn’t draft a catcher number one. And so much of that was not about whether knowing athlete was going to be good player or not. i He certainly has been that he’s but catching wears you out. It is it will destroy it destroys the body. And while there’s they’ve been giving him breaks DHTML lot more in the last month, you will get the way they used to for the first four months of the season. And it just it seemed like you might break down by it by October. So it’s hard to look six years down and say, You know what he’s going to be as a catcher at that point. So maybe you’re a little more hesitant about that. But he’s the face of the franchise at this point, and you’ve locked yourself into trying to sign him. You identify two or three guys, you try to get them early. Whether or not they sign is going to be up to them. But if you give them a legitimate offer, then you at least can say hey, we tried to get this done. The Atlanta Braves have locked up a lot of their young talent. And the industry has talked about it for a long time about whether or not players would follow other players and other places would follow that model because they lose out on a lot of money. I don’t know what’s going to happen Nestor, if again, the smart thing would be to identify the two or three guys that you want to build around who you believe can help you long term and you go after them at this moment. But this is a man this is this has been a magical stretch for the for the Baltimore Orioles. 30 games over 500 It’s hard to look at it and say that at least the people running the front office not talking about ownership. Not talking about the future with ownership. But I’m talking about the people that run the front office, it’s hard to look at them and say they’ve done a bad deal or a bad job in any sense. In terms of the the the trade deadline and what Elias did or did not do. Again, it seems to me that he that what he looks at and says next year, when we have the full team that I want together here. That’s when you can start moving guys off because essentially, they have guys that have in the farm system that are ready to play somewhere else, they’re going to have to move them and there’s not going to be room for them as you’re talking about at the major league level. And that’s when you’re gonna make deals. And you don’t have the desperation and urgency of the trade deadline where teams try to fleece you for what you have to move them and then build upon. Yes, you get to the next trade deadline. You may you’ll need to make a move or two and you make the decision to do it. But I think he wants to get all the pieces that he’s put on the table here. And then and then make those moves and then get to a point in the next years where you start to rebuild your farm system again to get the next guys up.

Nestor Aparicio  29:46

Our McCallum has been our baseball insider for three decades we’ve been doing this for 25 years. ALAN I knew you’d like to 25th anniversary I was trying to drag you out. Get a crab cake. No cheese for you. I know you’re not going to eat cheese by the way. Why are you from Philly? They do that pizza bread up there without the cheese. And it’s like on every menu, and I’m like that ain’t pizza. But that’s Allah McCallum Pizza pizza bread.

Allen McCallum  30:09

I’m not from Philly because I was born in Baltimore and I expect to live in Boulder fun entire life,


Nestor Aparicio  30:14

you’re better for it. I mean, there’s no doubt about it. Is there anything you want to say about the Angelo’s integrity? I mean, you follow this as long as anyone, I’m hoping that you read my dear John piece, but the New York Times things out now and that it’s really hard to have any confidence in what and again, I gave him all the praise and love on the alias thing and whatever. But now big boy decisions need to be made about television deals business, the lease the future of the city, and to your point, like he’s a bit of a liar. So I call him one.

Allen McCallum  30:46

So in the John Angelo’s running the team era, you’ve had the family lawsuit, you’ve had the situation, yelling at a reporter for absolutely no reason, saying you’re gonna open the books and not doing it. You’ve got at least deal that everyone promised would be done by the all star break that still sits here. And the most, I guess, the Kevin Brown situation falls into this category. And now what he’s what he’s saying in the New York Times in a moment when the Orioles fans should be celebrating every time you get to a point where you feel like you can feel good about the team, they step on their own feet and crash hard on the ground. What do I want to say about John Angeles, get it together? Figure it out, if you don’t want to figure it out, find a local owner and sell the team. You know, I always I always say when I see people say that, though, be careful what you wish for, because maybe he takes the team that natural nobody thinks it’s viable. Nobody thinks that can happen. But stranger things has happened. Well, I think he

Nestor Aparicio  31:55

was watching Oakland over the weekend. And I you know, there’s, if Oakley can move, he can move. And then it’s a matter whether Nashville would take him and how much how many lawyers you’d have to lawyer up to go beat baseball up. But this, you know, this speaks to art being at the end of his life and his sons needing to move that team to keep him solvent. And I I get more and more concerned every day that they pissed all this money away. I really do. You don’t I mean, like that there is no money there other than the there that’s there upon sale, because I lived through that with art. I mean, and Steve shot, if he were sitting here being honest, he’d say, that’s how he scored the team. He scored the team because they were they needed cash, he had it, they made it happen. They he made them whole kick them out, got rid of them. And that, you know, at the end of the day, they never wanted to sell the team, they never wanted to move to Baltimore, it was a survival technique for them. Unlike saying, Crunky, who’s just trying to get rich, you know what I mean? Like, I think it’s a different thing. The Ravens moved here at a family desperation in in, in retrospect, and in reality, then art was broke. Nobody knew that art one saying that, but I was broke.

Allen McCallum  32:59


This is gonna feel like a segue. My I’m watching this show with my sister called the Gilded Age. It’s about New York in the 1860s, and all the super rich, the Vanderbilts. And all those people. And the show is essentially about status, old money versus new money. And those who have want more, they always want more. And when they’re afraid they’re going to end up in the pursuit of more, they often risk losing everything, and they would rather be dead than have nothing. And I say that to say that when you have a ton of money and you are kings in your court, and you feel it going away or you feel you, you feel the situation maybe for the first time in your life where all of the trappings and pieces of life that you enjoy that you’ve always experienced, feel like they might be gone tomorrow. You do crazy things to make sure you have money to make sure you have more and to make sure you maintain your royal status. Is that where John Angelo’s is, is that where the Angelus family reside right now? I would say the lawsuit expresses some of that. For me in terms of concern. I would say the fact that they still haven’t signed this. This lease is certainly creates room for concern and just the reality look, whatever people want to think about the massive deal, and DC, the Nationals coming to Washington DC completely changed the landscape of the media market that the Orioles existed in when they bought when the Angelo’s family bought the Baltimore Orioles. They had inroads into not just Washington DC, but Northern Virginia where the money exists, and you wanted baseball people came here and that’s not something they have to do anymore. and maths and the need for maths and is is tenfold given those circumstances. And if they can’t find a way to make that work, if they can’t find to make bulk a way to make Baltimore profitable for them, then it really does come down to either selling the team having less than what you have, or doing something which feels calamitous, like moving the team out. I don’t know what they’re going to do. But there’s a real reality in this that nobody ever talks about. That the medium market that they exist in right now is dramatically different from the one they inflate. It’s so amazing

Nestor Aparicio  35:38

that they can castrate their their their talent on the air and have WB al W Mar WB FF not even reported. Because, you know, Greg Bader sends a nasty note. By the way, did you see what buckshaw Walter’s wife wrote about me? Timing to go?

Allen McCallum  35:56

I did. I did.

Nestor Aparicio  35:58

I’m a bad guy, Alan. Greg Bader and John Angelo’s think I’m a bad guy. I don’t know how you associate with me all these years. Alan McCallum is here he is our longtime oriels Insider. John Angelos has opened his mouth again for the New York Times, but the team’s 30 games over 500 and Alan I may be at some point eating popcorn. You can have some apple juice. I’ll drink some beer. No cheese, and we’ll watch playoff baseball together. Wouldn’t it be nice you and me watching a playoff game together? Like we should tell


Allen McCallum  36:27

you the Nesta if the Baltimore Orioles win the World Series in 2023. I will pop a bottle of champagne with you. And I will you will you can watch me drink half of it before your very eyes

Nestor Aparicio  36:41

I’ve ever seen you imbibe alcohol? No. All right, well, it’s well it’s gonna give you a little headache. I would say off the champagne. I’ll work you a little premium tequila or something that’s gonna be a little better for your end. Something that’s you know, a little little less sugar. Alan McCallum is my dude. He is on the trail down at the Kennedy Center and welcoming great music in and you know, hopefully seeing staying in a couple of weeks and all the things that you love, as well as once in your adulthood. A World Series parade for the Orioles. You’ve suffered enough, Alan,

Allen McCallum  37:11

when I did the show on NST. The opening song was 1983 by John Mayer. And it was purposeful. And the sad thing is that it’s still appropriate. And I’m ready for that T that song to no longer be timely. I want I want the Orioles to win a world championship. It’s been a long time coming. You know,

Nestor Aparicio  37:35


Mayer would be playing in the middle of the World Series here at the CFG Bank Arena if they’re in the World Series, so we’ll get that request out to John Mayer. All right. Excellent. All right now let McCallum you love him. He is you can also find his favorite thing at the Owings Mills, you won’t get the Owings Mills, a transit stop station story real quick, because I want you to promote that it’s important.

Allen McCallum  37:57

There is a big Negro League baseball Museum in Baltimore, is housed at the Owings Mills Library. And I think everybody should go check it out because it is absolutely spectacular. The history and the roots of the Negro League that exist in this town that so many people don’t know about. The story, the storytelling begins there, and everyone should go check it out for sure.

Nestor Aparicio  38:23

All right, Alan McCallum a little public service announcement for those of you traveling public transit, and by the way Westmore I, Ben Cardin, Chris Van Hollen, Brandon Scott all discussing the red line as well coming your way from Ocean City and our Mako experiences down there. We’re gonna be back at Pappus on Tuesday the 29th so I brought you by the Maryland lottery conjunction with our friends at window nation and then on the 15th we are at fade Lee’s in the morning kick in the year off right? I’m gonna be some good crabcakes around here. I’m Nestor he’s Allah we are wn st am 1570 Towson Baltimore. World Series or busts were Baltimore positive stay with us.

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