Longtime journalist and baseball scribe Thom Loverro of The Washington Times joins Nestor to discuss the angry words of John Angelos and the future of Camden Yards and Orioles baseball.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
angelo, peter, people, organization, baltimore, owner, deal, washington, sell, lamar, team, tom, ravens, nationals, day, orioles, point, years, press conference, franchise
Nestor Aparicio 00:00
What about wn s t test a little more and Baltimore positive, we’re positively into what we call the offseason around here. I call it crabcakes season. We’re gonna be doing the Maryland crabcake tour next week in Catonsville with our state fair friends, as well as Beaumont and El Guapo. We’re still trying to figure that all that’ll be next Friday in Gainesville. All were brought to you by the Maryland lottery, we’ll have some holiday cash drops to give away, as well as our friends at weathernation. Nation. Yeah, I got my bucket hat. I don’t need to wait for Oriole season to get a bucket head, whether they should have to be 866 90 nation, the way to find them and you buy two and you get two free and there’s 0% financing, which is even a better deal than they gave me back in the summer when I got my windows but I love my windows because it’s cold as hell. The ravens are eliminated. But thank God for the theater of billionaire born on third thinking they hit a triple sons of Peter G Angelo’s to create media stench earlier in the week. I mean, with all the Lamar and the Ravens and ravens and Lamar and tolerantly and Lamar and the Jetson Lamar and there’s barely the oxygen to John Angelo’s chase down a one of my fellow brethren a journalist, and I’ve invited Dan Connolly on if he comes on. Great. I’d love to talk to him. But I’m talking to other journalists, you may know Dan Connolly. And it was serendipity that Tom Rivero Tommy love as I affectionately call him. I think I found them at Shelley’s back room and cigar and a curveball. When I reached out to Tommy, because he put a tribute up to Muhammad Ali. This week as well, Martin Luther King day this week and lots of things happening. Tom Libero is the esteemed longtime columnist. Dude, I don’t even know when you got here. I mean, you’ve been here as long as I’ve been here. When did you make your way to the Washington Times Tom lover?
Thom Loverro 01:49
Well, you know what, Nestor if I don’t think I’m wrong about this. I think we left the Baltimore Sun the state with the same buyout.
Nestor Aparicio 01:58
January I left on Martin Luther King Day.
Thom Loverro 02:01
1992. Yes, that’s what I left to.
Nestor Aparicio 02:05
I took my bio check. I went to Calvert Street. I took my bio check Tom. And I got in my jeep and I drove to Minneapolis for the Thurman Thomas Super Bowl that the Washington football team participate in. And that was when I left I left the 31 years ago.
Thom Loverro 02:25
Well, that’s when I’d left the Baltimore Sun. And I had a job waiting for me at the Washington Times covering sports. I covered news at the sun. For for 54 years. I was a news editor and reporter. But I got a job covering sports for the times. So I took my check. I paid off our minivan and we went to Disney World.
Nestor Aparicio 02:46
Oh, we went the other way. I was cold as hell where I was man. It’s now it was terrible.
Thom Loverro 02:51
It’s my first show. Yeah, we’ve been I’ve been doing this as long as probably you’ve been doing this. All right. Well.
Nestor Aparicio 02:59
You were in all those press conferences all those years, man. I mean, you cover the all star game in 93. The Peters gonna buy the team a month later in 93. We’re going back 30 years, man. And if there’s ever ever, ever a time for me to pull the Peter principles out, and I had forgotten how many references there were to the good looking boys. You know, back in the 90s, when they were helping him sign said Fernandez and Chris say Bo and Yancheng Leo Gomez, I think you and I were in those press conferences with Johnny Evans back in the day, right? When Johnny had that forlorn look of Peter call today. You know, I’m a manager dealing with the owner of the baseball team telling you to play at third base tonight and trying to tell us how bad it was and how quickly it got bad right with Peter. Yeah, where where are you when you see this? The Offspring and the fighting with the brother and the mother and him acting like the owner now and mistreating Dan Canada mistreating anyone. Nobody cared when I got mistreated back in oh six Tom, as I remember, you know what I mean? I’m still waiting for anybody to have defended what I did, which was tell the truth, which was they were lying. There was just such a horrible place to be. And now we’re at this other point where not only have you covered a baseball team that’s won a world championship down in DC. But the entanglement of Masson and the decisions made 15 years ago coming back to really haunt everybody and all of this. And now we get this videotape of John Angelo’s being just a completely entitled, moron a clown. I mean, a cluttered down show own in the team, really. You know,
Thom Loverro 04:33
what, there’s, there’s a lot to unpack there. What’s interesting is John Angelo’s part of the reason Dan Conley asked that question, even though it was a press conference to unveil some kind of internship program on Martin Luther King, first day for minorities, it’s because John Angeles makes so few public appearances before the media I think it’s this was like the first time in four or five years, he had actually done a press conference that wasn’t a zoom press conference that was live. So this was their opportunity to ask this question, because as a
Nestor Aparicio 05:11
journalist, I wasn’t invited. You okay? So like, you know, but what I’m saying is, they kept out people that they thought would ask tough questions, because I am the last one to ask him a question, Tom, by the way, the rockets red glare speech he gave B was long as Fort McHenry will wait. I’m the one that asked him that question. And I had to hijack a tourism event that he did with Christine Brennan and Deke Cass, who was sent my press credential, by the way, who was involved in that very much involved, his hands are all sticky and wet from that. But I called Christine that morning, who I know you have a lot of respect for is a colleague of ours, and she was on the dais with the president of the ravens, the owner, son or whatever he was being called at that time of the Orioles, and I looked it up was 19. It was a fall of 19 that this happens. We’re going on three and a half, four years ago. But I, I they asked for quiet, Christine, and I call that I said that morning, I talked to Christine, I said, I’m coming to this press conference, and I’m gonna ask him if he has any intention to move in the team. And, you know, she’s like, oh, yeah, let’s you should do that. You should be allowed to ask a question of somebody get about to get $600 million from the incoming governor.
Thom Loverro 06:25
Yeah, this was the opportunity to ask that the only opportunity they would have, and there’s so much here, first of all, John Angelos doesn’t own one piece of that baseball team. His his mother, and his father owned the team. JOHN Angelo’s sister has been designated as the controlling person for MLB you to do business with, but he doesn’t own a penny of that team. So I mean, let’s face it, I mean, the other thing about about what he said was, you know, this guy’s such an idiot, he talked himself into this, this boast that if you want to come to the building next week, I’ll open up the books and show you our finances. I mean, that was the part what I
Nestor Aparicio 07:14
come and pick you up to do that together, would you pick me up? And if he did it on a Wednesday morning, I would make it my business to show up.
Thom Loverro 07:25
Every reporter in Baltimore should be in that building next week, this week, asking the sceetos both you know, that’s not going to happen. I tell you why. A few Washington Nationals lawyers should be up there looking at those books as well. You know, they would love to get a look. But that’s that was so absurd. That was so typical. It was
Nestor Aparicio 07:43
a lie. It was just it was I told it what it was. It’s bullshit. It’s a lie. It’s a lie.
Thom Loverro 07:50
Anyone look at the books any irony about this is, I mean, I don’t I haven’t been, I don’t know the Angelo’s family of late, but I knew them in the early years of the Orioles. And I know Peter enough to know that if he was upright and healthy. He wouldn’t let John Angelo’s any were near his books. He wouldn’t have a life son have a thing to do with those books. You know, so there was there was just here’s the thing. I don’t I don’t understand why this continues to be a story, in the sense that and maybe you’re you’re part of it, too. I don’t know. They’re not moving. They’re not going anywhere. Okay, that’s not happening. They’re gonna get sold. Peter Angelos. It’s in his will, that when he passes on, the team’s gonna get sold, but they’re not moving out of Baltimore. Okay. The MLB has not let an owner move a team. Since the senator slept Washington and 71 when the Expos moved to Washington, MLB on that team, they have not let an owner move in over 50 years. Okay, so of all the owners, they’re certainly not going to let John Angelo’s move the franchise so they’re not going anywhere. Okay, but they are going to get sold. I know you’ve got this this this this lawsuit going on between Georgia the mother and Lou versus John for who actually controls the team. But once Peter passes on, that team is going to get sold and I’ve been told that MLP is going to have a big sale who gets to buy it and it’s just not going to be whoever Peter already Angeles family wants to sell it to MLB is going to have a big because of this entanglement of the massive deal. I mean, the Nationals put the the learners put up their team for sale is at the end of last season. And still, I mean the sale has bogged down and they’re probably not going to sell it because it’s all tangled up the future, the future of both teams are connected together. I don’t think you could sell the Nationals until you sell the Orioles until that Oriole sale goes through because the Orioles are massive, massive are the Orioles it’s the same thing. And the massive entanglement. If you were to buy the Nationals right now from the learners, in addition to the purchase at a team, you’re going to have to write a learner’s a check for the 200 plus million they think they’re owed from massive to cover that, then Masson is still going to own your TV rights, if you want to get out of that. And if Ted leonsis with his NBC Sports Washington deal, he wants to put the baseball team on that network. If he wants to get out and deal with Masson, he’s going to have to write a big check to the Angeles family and mass him to get out of that deal. So I mean, no one’s gonna do that. So this is not going to get resolved in DC or Baltimore. Unfortunately, until Peter Angelos moves on to the pearly gates, and that team is put up for sale.
Nestor Aparicio 11:07
Tom Libero is my guest, I did a lot of talking in the beginning. But I definitely will let you do a lot of because I mean, you listen, there are not a lot of people on and I’m being is like, not just Reverend of you and respectful of you. There are very few people who know more about this than I know. Because I mean, I’ve made a life of knowing this. Every day of my life, I wrote the Peter principles I’m going to be releasing that. And the history of all of this from the minute he took over, and the wildness of all that you covered in the Washington Post. And the pressure that was put on, you know, Congress and anti trust and all that happened in four and five and six. And then Peter putting pressure back, as Joe Foss once said to me, Peter had no intention of being fair to them. Peter wanted to stick it up their rectum into eternity. And if Peter could sit up and smile while he’s eating pudding, he loves every bit of the part that he has entangled and messed up all of this and get and gathered incredible wealth, through all of this, that now his son is using as a weapon on a stage. And, Tom, my question to you on the on the entanglement. And listen, everybody that’s smart says to me, the team can’t be moved to take. I take it at face value that there’s not a lot of sense in leaving Oriole Park vacant. But I also see the inherent problems that Maryland has Baltimore has. I see the rosier grass in Nashville, I see what his intentions might be. And I saw the Dave Stewart story the other day and Garth Brooks and anybody else that might be in the Nashville, but to your point. They know what they’re doing with Tampa. They don’t know what they’re doing with Oakland. Oakland’s been a problem since Charlie Finley, right? I mean, forever, and they can’t solve these problems. But that being said, they haven’t solved this problem. And this is a two decade old problem of unintended consequences back in. Oh, 50607 When Peter, drag them into the mud, drag them, it feels like yesterday to me, you know all of this, and it’s been 15 1718 years now. But the unintended consequences of letting Peter have his way, first off, he’s outlived anything, anybody ever would have believed at that point, that we would be sitting here in early 2023. You and I alive and still young and beautiful. And that’s discussing this,
Thom Loverro 13:25
Nestor. I think, I think part everyone agreed to the massive deal, in part because they figured by the time this came around, Peter wouldn’t be on this earth. I think that’s what they did. I think they figured they’d be taping we’re dealing with a totally different Orioles owner. And that is a much more reasonable person. You know, the story of how mass and wild up Sit like 9010 Oreos to nationals in terms of its original investment, was the initial deal was closer to 5050. And the story goes that Peter went up to New York to the MLB headquarters and Park Avenue, walked into Bob the pace office. So it was buds right and man at the time, Bob do pay an ex Marine. And Peter basically threatened and intimidated him into agreeing to this new share of 9010. Now the Nationals get a little peace, a little more peace every year, up until it gets to 33%. But that was not the original deal. The original deal was much more equitable. And Peter basically threatened them and they buckled where all the
Nestor Aparicio 14:40
money was on the front end. I mean, all of the money that I by the way, I had to go down to the UB library one day to chase Andy MacPhail and there’s video of that early video that back in YouTube. That’s kind of not what Dan Connolly did, which was attend a press conference. Um But I’m talking about ambush shorter media to ask questions about where all the masks and money was in 2008. Nine because it certainly wasn’t going into Oriole payroll at that point.
Thom Loverro 15:10
And there was a lot of money. There was a back. But there’s not a lot of money now, because we know that regional sports network. Businesses are dying business right now. But back then, in the early days of man wonder million dollars a year, when they were flushed with subscribers. Absolutely, there was a ton of money.
Nestor Aparicio 15:29
Well, and the other part of that money is it never came under the purview of anybody other than Angelo’s and sons, and the Nationals, we’re always trying to get at that money and figure out that money and figure if we were free agents today, in this market, we’d be getting 75 million a year, not 29 million a year. And the poison pill that I always thought had to be illegal, was saying, you get what we get. And we’re the negotiator, we, we decide how little we’re going to give to ourselves how much we’re going to penalize our own baseball team, starve tourniquet our own baseball team. So we tourniquet you. So we keep double the money. I mean, it’s been genius scan by Angelo’s, but to untangle it later, in a for sale, where the nationals are trying to sell the team. And this, can you imagine the oil situation getting any worse than it ever was? Like you really are a historian to this in the same way I am. It’s it’s like a Shakespearean thing where this thing’s gone. Right?
Thom Loverro 16:31
Yeah, but the ironic thing is, is the product on the team has has finally turned around the product on the field with with their group of young players, I mean, they had a pretty exciting year last year. And they should be an exciting team again this year, they’ve got some real good young talent. Here’s the thing that people need to know though. They’re not investing. They’re not they’re not taking the next step that people expect. Well, now we go out and sign a couple of complimentary free agents to fill in with those young players. That’s not happening. They’re not going to do that. They’re going to live and die with the with the rookie and the first time contracts of all their players. And like I said, hopefully at some point, not hopefully, at some point, when Peter does pass on, this will all eventually get resolved. And here’s the frustrating thing for people in Washington within the Nationals or organization. They believe that commissioner of baseball could step in and invoke the best interests of baseball powers that he has to straighten out this mess and do and he’s refused to do so.
Nestor Aparicio 17:40
Yeah, what? What is his deal? Right? Like, I remember him being the smarmy lawyer back in the 90s. I literally was at the high it was the last time I was ever I will ever be in a room with Peter Angelos. While he was lucid. Peter was running behind the curtain away from me and Peter Schmuck, because we were there it was literally the day but Sealy got a nap What’s your like? Rob Manfred got elected at that. Baltimore Hyatt is where they took the vote was two doors down from my house, I guess it was in 16. You know, my wife was bald and sick. Maybe it’s 15 or 16 whatever it was. And I remember running the ROB Manfred in the coffee shop and he was all nervous. And you know what, what’s his deal on leadership on all of this? Because much like Goodell he does the press conferences and says all the right things, but we have a really been destitute. And we’ll say setting the city, my city on fire in the baseball sense for what this once was, and what they always allowed this to be whether it was Bob to pay getting rolled back and six and seven, whether it was them throwing media members like me, like they’ve just always steamrolled everyone, and Major League Baseball has always been afraid of Peter. He’s eating pudding. Right? Why are they afraid of him? Now? Why aren’t they just coming in here and executing a plan?
Thom Loverro 19:00
Well, you know, I think I think like Rob Manfred is a lawyer. And I think like everybody who does dirty business, they’re afraid of discovery and deposition, they’re afraid of being sued. And having, you know, the Angelo’s law firm, force MLB, ironically, to open up their books, you know, for review as part of a discovery of a lawsuit. I mean, that’s always been Peters power. You know, it’s not necessarily winning the lawsuit. It’s getting the lawsuit to the point where you where you can depose and discover the evidence and the documents that you need. So I think they’re still afraid of that. Plus, he’s a lawyer, you know, and that he’s going to think like a lawyer. And here’s the ironic thing is, is Angelo’s the Angelo’s family, they’d rather pay lawyers than pay the learners. So they’re going to keep so until they’re are out of the picture, this thing is going to go on and on. And of course, it’s not going to be resolved unless the commissioner would step in. And I got to think, because his fear of being in a lawsuit keeps him from doing that, because this is damaging to franchises right now, the Washington Nationals need to be sold, the learners have turned it have turned the franchise now if they won the World Series, and let’s face it, they took a I mean, there’s a lot of sad stories about COVID, much sadder than what the learners went through. But the learners won the World Series in 2019. And never got a chance to capitalize on any of it. You know, they never got the bump in advertising sponsorship, they never got the attendance because baseball shut down. A couple months after they won the World Series, there was nobody in the stands in 2020. So that really hurt them. Plus, they’re in the commercial real estate business. And at Darren COVID, there wasn’t there weren’t too many businesses that suffered more than commercial real estate. You look at all the empty all office buildings that are in the cities with people working at home. So it happened at the worst time for the learners. And now they’re they’re basically they have retreated. The payroll for this organization right now, going into next year is $80 million. It’s I’m sure it’s less than the Orioles pay. And that’s and they’re not they’re not spending a dime on at least trying to pretend they’re going to compete. Well, there
Nestor Aparicio 21:35
are so I’m selling the restaurant. I’m selling the restaurant. I’m making improvements. I’m selling the place. Yeah, right, literally. I mean, Tom Libero is our guest Washington Times legendary columnist, former Baltimore Sun reporter, teaching me things that I didn’t even know about the 1980s and his byline and our our colleague ship many, many years ago. But through all of this, you’ve had the worst dude. I mean, you’ve chronicle this criminal down in DC with the football team. You’ve had the Angelo’s Chronicles up here prior to that, and it’s entanglement with learner. Maybe it has something to say about a Polen or, or Ted leonsis, at this point. But the Washington football situation as it relates to politics, government, the league, getting him out who the next owner would be it the astonishing thing for me, and this is for Bish Yachty, as well. Who says thrown me out, as you know, the team was worth $3 billion in September, it’s worth five now some of the Ravens. And the reason for that is because the commanders were worth five in September to now worth seven. The escalation of the values of these franchises right now, really being driven by Dan Snyder’s mess to some degree in Washington right now, right?
Thom Loverro 22:55
Well, that’s one of the reasons why the other owners on leaning on Dan to sell the team is because they know that the sale of Washington, if it’s handled, right, it’s a very valuable franchise, it has a history of being a very valuable franchise for the NFL, before Dan Schneider took it over. They were last in attendance this last year, and attendance went up for them, compared to the year before and they were still last in attendance, the TV ratings locally, have dropped significantly there. I mean, and when I talk about attendance, that’s 50 to 60%, visiting fans, on any given Sunday, in that stadium, which I call Coach townfield, not fedexfield. So yeah, I mean, but but in the right hands. This is a franchise in the nation’s capital, where the NFL spends millions of dollars on lobbying, that is very valuable to all these owners in many different ways. So yeah, I mean, as as everything, if the national sell for maybe close to $7 billion than that, right, that raises the value of everyone else’s franchise. But eight, it looks like this team is going to get so I mean, this is for a generation of football fans down here. If this team gets sold. That’s their Super Bowl.
Nestor Aparicio 24:19
Can you imagine me as my last name is Aparicio in Baltimore, can you imagine? I can’t imagine a land after Peter Angelos. Like I, I can’t get my arms around, like a normal owner you’d like and I don’t I don’t know what normal is at this point. I’ve been going to these owners meetings for 20 years now Tom and I sit around with these, these people. It just feels like to be a billionaire. You have to be a little creepy. And then the owner want to own a team and want that spotlight and be a part of that. It makes you a certain kind of personality that, quite frankly leans more toward Dan Schneider than it does Mr. Rogers. Yes.
Thom Loverro 24:58
It certainly seems as to you know, rich people have their whims and they can afford to indulge them as as someone once said, but I mean a host, I have not treated the Washington football team as a serious football organization since since probably since 2013. Gibbs that was no, that was the Shanahan era in 2012, when they went with Archie three, and when they won the Division and that was very exciting. And then And then, you know, Snyder empowered the quarterback RG three the basically destroy the Frant the Shanahan regime from the inside. And it’s never been hasn’t been a serious organization. Since then.
Nestor Aparicio 25:50
It’s not being a serious organization, when Mike Nolan told me the story about showing up for work after being there all night and having melted vanilla ice cream all over his desk, because the owner thought that his defense was too vanilla.
Thom Loverro 26:02
Right. But their last chance. What was the Shanahan era, that was their last chance that they were bringing they convinced the two time Super Bowl winning coach to come, you know, to, to coach the team. But even that wasn’t enough to stop the dysfunction. I call it the art of self destruction. It’s it’s a team that has the ability to self destruct by you know, those those stories about fact, threes, where they have signs up that like a blackboard that will say zero days without an accident one day without an accident. Well, the Nationals never get it the commander’s never get past zero. I mean, they are such a self destructive organization. In even, even in the past two years, I mean, from retiring numbers to the Sean Taylor tribute that they botched so many things, just just the fact
Nestor Aparicio 26:58
that he’s not supposed to be around, he was banned, and he’s standing there in front of all these w’s and yeah, and and the legal part of it, that when information is on it, I mean, just the fact that the league spent a couple million dollars to get a verbal report is insane. You know, I mean, the amount of cover up that it’s wound up in Congress, Oh, what, what’s, what’s going to be the upshot of this? Are they, is he ever really going to agree to sell you? I even thought that that, that that statement of he’s considering offers like or whatever that thing was in November, December, I’m like, Oh, my God, he’s never ever, ever. I’m thinking if you met that guy is and I met that guy, like, he’s never gonna walk away without burning down all their houses or trying to
Thom Loverro 27:50
sell on the team. And in fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if it sold by the next owners meeting in March. Really? Yeah, he’s selling the team. That’s gonna happen. He has, he has, like he just reached a settlement with the Maryland Attorney General, about withholding money from customers, and a lawsuit filed by the bail Attorney General, they had to pay a state. They didn’t greet any guilt, but they paid a $250,000 fine. Now, now for some people, that’s just cost of doing business. But remember, this is a franchise said a couple of weeks before was bouncing 5050 checks to their customers. So if you if they got assigned a quarter of a million dollar check, that’s serious stuff. The DC Attorney General has the same lawsuit filed against against the stance Snyder and the commander’s the Virginia Attorney General is conducting the same investigation that Maryland has done that DC is done. And the US Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, a federal prosecutor is looking into criminal charges of fraud involving Dan Snyder and the commander’s that’s all that’s not going to go away even with the sale of the TV. These are outside investigations. Now the NFL supposedly is conducting their own investigation into the allegations by a former employee named Tiffany Johnston, that she was sexually harassed and sexual misconduct against Dan Schneider. And they’ve hired Mary Jo White to investigate that internally. Now, Dan Schneider sells a team I’ll bet that investigation goes away. But these other investigations, they’re there, they’re out there. So no, he that he can’t continue as an owner because I think he’s in trouble. Now the story is that he’s looking to make England his his to his his new, his new home. I don’t know if that’s far enough for him because I think England has an extradition treaty.
Nestor Aparicio 30:01
Well, you know, we can only hope. Tom the pharaohs here for The Washington Times. You know, I want to ask you this because I haven’t talked to you about Lamar at all. We talked about other things and watching this from afar. And obviously, the stench from the football team down in Largo is you know, we could sit here all day you guys do down at the team and in DC and the radio you do on a daily basis and podcast, you’ve been subjected to it up here. It’s been Lamar, Lamar, Lamar, Lamar, right. It’s amazing. You cross 32. And everything sort of changes from the fan base is right. It’s kind of like crossing into Czechoslovakia or something. He’s like a whole different thing going on up here. But the Lamar thing from afar, and Archie threes role in it right as it constantly Arey to Lamar, knowing Lamar and Lamar shouldn’t play and all of the ears of Lamar should look out for Lamar Lamar should have had a Lloyd’s of London, Lamar should have an agent. Right? At base, not having an agent over the last six or seven weeks. I don’t know that he has been smart enough to figure out what it’s costing him in the way of public relations, that if his knee really was worse, that he would have had a mechanism to say, I’m not playing my knees, no good. But this has been a real fiasco for the Ravens. And I have no doubt they’re going to deal him and all of the conjecture is true in regard that he’s played his last snap, because I think they’re done with him, because I think he’s done with them. And reading all the tea leaves is immediate. But you’re outside, you’re not attending these press conference. You’re not around, but you’re always around. What do you make of all of this from the outside?
Thom Loverro 31:39
Well, you brought up the the fact that he has no agent. Now, I was talking to my podcast partner, Kevin Shin, pointing out that we haven’t heard much for a month for weeks about what was going on with Lamar. And I pointed out because he doesn’t have an agent. There’s nobody out there to leak information. Now that’s, that’s now in this case, that’s worked against them. Like you said, there’s been nobody out there. To make his case I find it hilarious that Archie three has now become the guy to make his case. But my experience with Archie three is different from the rest of the world. He was a fraud and a phony down here in Washington. He basically I’ll tell you why. Here’s what you need to know about Archie three. He used the owners yacht Dan Snyder’s yacht for his honeymoon. Okay. That’s what you need to know about. That’s how that’s how the tight was between the owner and the player and the player used it and abused it and hung it over his coaches and hung it over his teammates, and was just a terrible teammate. And it’s such a manipulative lie. You know, so I find it interlock he was he was a backup in Baltimore. You know, he back
Nestor Aparicio 33:00
canonize down in DC for the last five minutes? I mean, sort of the last flicker of the Snyder hope was he was the hope right and Snyder sort I knew that too. But I mean, the chalk sniffing him. Hey, look, Bashaud He used to sit courtside with Ray Lewis and with Ed Reed right back in the day, Johnny? I’ve been sitting courtside with Lamar Jackson lately, we’ve noticed that appear to
Thom Loverro 33:24
know. But so I mean, I think that I think you’re right bar is gonna get traded. And I think he’s done himself a disservice with with his lack of representation. And he hasn’t gotten any help from the organization in that sense. Because I don’t think the ravens are very good. But the ravens, my impression is obviously you know them a lot more. They seem to be a very tight lipped organization, very close to the vest. Well, that doesn’t always work for you. Sometimes you gotta get your message out or a message out. And they don’t seem to be very good at that.
Nestor Aparicio 34:01
Well, I mean, Chad steel, that’s his job, and his first order of business was to throw me out. So you know, like getting real information in the modern world of the internet and stuff. That was your job and my job because professionals and it’s why I’m still here 31 years later, because I don’t lie to people. I’ve never had to lie to people. But there’s a there’s a point now with where we are and this brings us full circle back to the John Angelo’s conversation, that whatever they say there, we now think it’s gonna harp but Harbaugh said well, Harbaugh was lying. Harbaugh lies regularly. You know like it John Angelo says till the rockets red glare sign a lease, bro, sign a lease and then and then we will stop asking the question. But until then, the simple asking of questions in these forum forces them to feel like they need to lie or make something up or half truth. I mean, this is two years in a row. The head coach is student front of the media in November and December and said, This is not a season ending injury for my quarterback and both years it has been.
Thom Loverro 35:07
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, again, it’s a lack of understanding. There’s a lot of organizations that are guilty of this. They don’t understand what’s happened in the sports media world in the past five years, I would have when I would write something that fans wouldn’t agree about. They say, Well, this is a media controversy. And I say, Well, if it’s a media controversy, then it’s a controversy. Because your decision making, it consumes everything, including the media right now. And people on the baseball side of baseball teams, the football side of football teams, they don’t like it. But they need to understand the implications of their decision, how they play out in the media, and how it affects the organization. I mean, you think John Harbaugh cares about any of that he doesn’t care about any of that, but he should, because it affects his football team. I mean, the message that’s out there that people are covering, that people are writing about on social media that people are covering on TV and radio, that impacts the product on the field. And if you deny that, you’re you’re you’re living in the stone age, and the smart teams embrace that, there’s not many of that well, but they all will at some point. And
Nestor Aparicio 36:28
it came here as a community effort. The Ravens came here with PSLs poor suckers licenses, I bought them right, you know, like people bought in on this, this organization. And, you know, I had a great, great conversation down in Jacksonville a couple of weeks ago about that franchise, and was Sam Cabarrus, who I know you know, well as a Hall of Fame voter and Sam’s Baltimorean you know, as well from Woodlawn. And he said, the Jacksonville Jaguars operate as though they’re a worldwide brand that just happens to have a branch office in Jacksonville. And then of course, they play games in London like all of that I feel like the Ravens really seeing what the city what it’s become. And the Wembley knee was a part of it, the deterioration of the city and the brand around the city and that thought has been a part of it. But Tom most ravens games tickets are five and $10. A game time to get in most ravens games are that and they’ve been that for since the Wembley knee, and they’ve had this transcendent MVP quarterback, this exciting brand of football and people have not they tried to sell me tickets they tried to sell me the PSLs that I turned back in on my app to buy playoff tickets and stuff. And the spirit in Baltimore and you spent so much your life in Baltimore, purple flamingos on lawn purple basements purple storytelling purple Friday, all of that. There are team there Baltimore they represent they, you know that? I don’t know. I think they’re, they’re a form to bet. wear purple, get drunk on Sundays, like your team play fantasy, like all of that, but nobody thinks of them as this foundational community spirit anymore, that like you need to have an ornament on your Christmas tree or make your house you know purple floodlights like the way it once was. And I don’t want a geezer but I was here when this thing sizzled in the same way, as a Washington football person. You know what prosperity when it really gets into the soul of a community when you see it and feel it. We had it here we really had it. Boy, somebody not named Chad Steele and Sashi brown better be a part of bringing that back because having a billionaire owner, you know, not wearing socks on a boat down in the Bahamas. That’s great, as long as somebody like Kevin Byrne and David Modell are here and and Larry Lucchino in your ERA and really selling it, selling it, you know, and making people feel a part of it. They’ve lost their way in that way they really have and to see John Angelo’s treat everyone the fan base in the way he did earlier this week. It and pachadi running and the Lamar Jackson thing here and the organization sort of you lied. No, you lied. No, you lied. No you like and they’re trying to keep them ours value up right? These next six or seven weeks. They don’t want any stories of them are skipping a hot tub treatment, right? Like right now they’re trying to put his value to say, Good kid did everything we needed. It just didn’t work. He got he got injured. And you know if you need him, he’s got he’s a great quarterback. But that’s what they need to do as an organization the next eight weeks when it’s very obvious that this is very strange, and there will be a story coming out of this. Once he’s in a Jets uniform or wherever he’s going to be.
Thom Loverro 39:50
You’re right about the failure to sell selling these franchises and their product is more important than ever, particularly to For a generation coming up, that doesn’t consume sports the same way that we did, you know, you have, I mean, you have a generation that doesn’t like to sit and watch a whole game, you know, they like to watch highlights, you have a generation that decides the day of the game. Oh, let’s go to a football game. You know, they’re not buying season tickets. So because of that, you’ve got to sell the organization, you got to get out there and sell the product. Even if you think, well, we’ve been we’ve been here for 20 years, you know, we don’t have to do that. So you know, that’s what I think. I think they I think that is sell the product.
Nestor Aparicio 40:40
Well, covering up the bad things. They had a kid dropped dead in a bad way. The two days after mandatory camp, bro. I mean, it was a tragic situation. But as an organization, they don’t want me talking about Jalen Ferguson ever again. Right? You know what I mean? Like, and in the old days, when this happened with Big Daddy lips give you like, back in the day, it’s a different story, right. And in the modern era, their job is to intimidate people like us threatened us with seeing these in lawsuits, and all of that. And transparency is just something they talk about being not something that they ever have any intention of being. And to your point, they think selling the brand is hiding the bad things, instead of just addressing them. You know what I mean? Like, and as a journalist, I’m offended that they think I’m going to shine up their turd. But they have a whole department that does that@ravens.com or team.com, or state you.com. And they have media under thumb, and they have bought off media at BHEL, that they cannot criticize the organization at all, you know, in any way they can’t go on the radio is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Eric, the cost is an idiot for dealing. They couldn’t say that on the radio, it’d be AOL, even if they thought it, they have to take the team side because they’re in business with the team. So when you start buying off media organizations, or taking New York Times reporters and putting them on your website and knowing they’re under intimidation by your coach, then I don’t think you’re really doing anybody who’s read our work, or who really wants journalism and wants facts. You’re not getting those people anymore, you’re getting sick offense. And we’ve gotten into this debate, Tom, and this is actually from our perspective in Baltimore. Are you on the Marfan? Or are you a Ravens fan? Because this is a time you have to ask that there’s a lot of people that are Lamar fans, they want to see Lamar do well, well, I don’t want to see a broke football team with a $50 million quarterback and the wide receivers, and a broken down quarterback that can’t play in January, which is spin a little preview for Steve. I mean, this is a moment of truth for for Steve, or for Steven Ross, or for the Glazer family to say we’re gonna give Lamar to under $12 million of guaranteed money, because you know, as well as I do, somebody’s gonna do it. Tom, you know that?
Thom Loverro 42:58
Oh, yeah. Yeah, somebody’s got to be desperate enough to do it. You know, it’s funny, they don’t have any wide receivers, because I’m not very good at picking wide receivers.
Nestor Aparicio 43:07
Well, I’ll never get a wide receiver to sign with them.
Thom Loverro 43:11
Right. But but look at the players coming out of college have to sign with them. And they haven’t been very good at drafting those players either. When it comes to wide receiver, but I want to I want to take I want to ask you something else has something to do with the Oreos, because I’m real curious about this. You know, the Orioles hired a director, a person in charge of content, the director of content, a guy named Tao Harry never heard very well, you should look this up. You should go back. There’s some kind of story here. I don’t know what it is. Cow Perry worked for CNN and MSNBC for like 20 years. Cow Perry has his credentials as a as a real time journalist are very impressive. And the Orioles hired him about a month ago as director of content. It’s such an add a shopping hire out of the ordinary. I don’t even know what it means. I don’t know what he’s doing, directing their contents, trying to deal with the John Angelo’s press conference. But I was just curious if you had heard about him. I had no
Nestor Aparicio 44:23
I looked him up. AlJazeera CNN Voice of America MSNBC NBC News. I’m very familiar with Michelle Andras. Right. I mean, she was sort of first in the boat. She’s never left. She’s got a lot of power. I mean, she’s the voice of their brand online and their brand online is this saccharin. These team brands online are they’re the antithesis of what we’ve tried to do, which is present fact and they stand up against that and then throw people like me out and say you’ll have no facts over there. You’ll have no access, and they shut or access down. So the Ravens have been really, the ravens are really good at doing social media content. All teams look at the Ravens is a little bit of a guiding light. So the Orioles have been getting their ass kicked for a long time. But to your point on purpose, because there can be no criticism of a 53 and 108 team, right? Yeah. Yes. How you gonna be a columnist for that talk? Let’s before I let you go, I gotta ask you this because I it’s my first note, and I’ve kept you way longer. You’ve always good to me and I miss you. I miss you. And press boxes. I miss breaking up with you, and having fun and eating hotdogs and do all somebody do. I’m writing a thing now. And you and many people and you’re one of the few people I’ve really read regularly, because you show up my Facebook, I read your brief. I aspire to do what you do as well as you do it. I’ve been a writer since I was a kid. Right? And, and, and I’m a really good marketer, and I’m an entrepreneur, but I’ve said this a lot like I can wear my drug city shirt tell you should come to Dundalk with us on March 3. But I never realized the first three letters of my name, were a suffix for all sorts of great things, like awesomeness, right? Like wakefulness, right? If I would have known this, I would have hijacked Preakness back in the 80s. Right. I mean, I would have, but I thought of writing a column. I started talking to the Baltimore banner people I was inspired by what they’re doing. And Ted benna tooless was a friend of mine. And I just got caught up into and some friends of mine said you should write a column, you should write a column sports column like and you should be the guy that banner hires. And I’m like, well, thank you very much. But I got a gig and it’s good. And you know, they’re nice people. I like MTS and Kimmy. I think they’re doing a great job. scriber the whole deal. But I said, What am I going to call my guy and I thought, well, Rock Around the Clock was already taken, you know what I mean? And I started to think about what I call it. And I thought, column Ness column this so I’m calling my column columnist. So I’ve asked every columnist asked Mike Lupica last week, what makes a great column this I mean, I think you’re really, I mean, you’re a guy I read, and you’re always to the point, but I guess I could critique you and say, What makes you great? Or what makes you first offs, wisdom, you know, it’s knowing a lot and having facts straight. It’s not it’s shooting straight. But what is important, what what advice would you give me of writing a great column?
Thom Loverro 47:21
Well, you know, for you, I think you’ve got the talent, that you need to end understanding that you need to do this. And that’s to make comfortable people uncomfortable to make. I mean, like, like HL Mencken said, you know, to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable, I’m real good at that second part, afflicting the comfortable. And I think that’s a big part of the job is holding people’s feet to the fire. It’s also storytelling, as well. But ultimately, you’ve got to be the guy to stick your finger in the eye of the powers that be and say, No, you’re not gonna get away with this. He just got you got it. That’s what that’s the job to me. God that.
Nestor Aparicio 48:10
Thank you drop the mic. Tom Lovera for The Washington Times giving the kid in me when I was 16 or 17. When you met me, right? I mean, I don’t know that we knew each other at the sun. We probably walked the picket line together at seven, right?
Thom Loverro 48:25
Well, actually, I was management than I was an editor a wonder zone the difference? Okay. All right. Well, I had to work and I worked out in Howard County. I didn’t have to deal with the picket line. Thank goodness. Let me remember.
Nestor Aparicio 48:39
slogans, share the wealth. Share the wealth. Was that good?
Thom Loverro 48:45
I remember when you were on the evening, Sun side. I remember that. Yeah. I was. I was with the morning sun. As a reporter for the last three years I was there. So I remember up on the evenings I remember you Nestor Absolutely.
Nestor Aparicio 49:01
Well, the rocky mentary for hammer. Jax is coming out on the fourth in East Point in my neighborhood I grew up in I can literally walk from my parents house. And I’m a part of the documentary so all of the last 80s Rock and Roll exploits of what happened after midnight and hammer Jacks coming as my Baltimore Sun I still have my credit. Pop music critic said right there on my business card even he said Tom Rivera Washington Times giving me great advice, being a great guest as always, and thanks for being a wealth of information on this John Angelos thing and for providing a perspective even though I’ve rambled in the beginning because I’m wanting to do that, but you’re one of the very few people that brings some wisdom to this as to what this is, and I mean, I do appreciate you stopping me and saying they’re not moving the team. I think that’s an important message.
Thom Loverro 49:50
Well, thank you Nestor always enjoyed being on time, Libero stayed
Nestor Aparicio 49:52
bonus. Now I can’t call Tom to like 2025 and I am Nestor. We are wn sta and 15 70,000 Ballroom or and we never stop talking Baltimore positive and I didn’t even get to the caps
