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In an industry that has been famously and dangerously slow to change, the future of the Maryland Jockey Club, Preakness, Pimlico and Laurel is about to change dramtically and forever. Nestor had a lot of questions – and historical perspective – for David Richardson and Alan Foreman, who try to answer all of the mystery surrounding the Stronach family, the local tracks and the future of the second crown of horse racing’s Triple Crown at Old Hilltop in Baltimore.


preakness, maryland, danny, state, talking, racing, work, laurel, bowling alley, crab cake, horses, stronach, put, build, years, otb, racetrack, bowl, duck, pin


David Richardson, Nestor J. Aparicio, Alan Foreman

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home, we are wn sta a 1570, Towson Baltimore. We’re up here in beautiful Carroll County. Doing our second segment. If you just joined us on the radio, please go back and listen to the first segment. You’ll learn a lot about the history of horse racing. In the state. We’re at a bowling alley. This is a this is a duck pin. folks outside of town don’t know what this is all about. But we’re up here Greenville bowl. It is the bowling center adjacent literally to Greenmount station where oh my god, I’ve probably done 100 radio shows agreement of station over the last 15 years. Many of them featured in the 25th anniversary documentary this week, either the Steve Smith piece and Todd heap and all sorts of Gen strong stuff and and Luke Jones our partner, we’re gonna be fading these on Friday, every Friday during the football season. courtesy of our friends at the Maryland lottery I have Raven scratcher off Excuse me. Pac Man scratch offs, the Ravens graduals must be draft weekend. Pac Man scratch offs we’ll be giving away on Friday and fate Lee’s also up here at Greenmount station where I just had a delicious crab cake. Now Alan Foreman’s here with us and David Richardson from Greenmount bowl but it’s been you know, a year or so since I came up here did the show maybe eight months ago. And I love the crab cake. It’s the Angelenos crab cake. And Christmas in here right now to talk about gambling crab cakes, ribs, family events, clowns, balloon makers, for Nestor


David Richardson  01:18

you you eaten fried man, you gotta have boreal they gotta be bro. Sorry.

Nestor J. Aparicio  01:22

Dundalk. I get no fries can prions grab my mother’s good for you. When I left we were talking about where the horse racing industry is going. And folks may be wondering what we’re doing in a bowling alley. And we just spent 30 minutes having a crab cake here and talking about the history of this building. So we’ll get to the horse racing in a minute. As I’m holding the bowling pin here. The only bowling sorry I have what I bought was a duck pin bowler, but I had never bowled 10 pins in my life. And as a real reason, there’s a reason for that I’m missing a finger. Right? I had a finger amputated in a lawnmower axe in 1972. I was three years old. And thinking about putting this nub into ball. Like the thing that hurts the most in life was when I would answer the phone and bang it because of the nerve endings. So I ducked in bowl all of my life, all of the 25th anniversary which I know you guys are gonna watch the documentary. There is league night we did a duck pin challenge at Finland and Dundalk beginning in 1997. And we did it for probably 10 years. And we did it. It was always the weekend of the ACC tournament. So the weekend was a Thursday night, usually Wednesday or Thursday, and Steve le trenta and the LA trenta family who own loonies. One of the partners that Louise had the duck pin bowling alley in Dundalk was pin land and so I had never touched the 10 Pin Ball in my life. But one of my oldest and very dear friends is Danny Wiseman. Danny was a Dundalk bowling head from the time I knew and we traded baseball cards. We were 11 years old at Berkshire. And Danny was always the kid on Saturday that went to coat lanes and to bowl America because they were all 10 pins. And we made fun of him because we all had a good time Poland and Ireland Tanner’s league at East Point on Saturday morning, but he was off with the adults because adults were like, little eight year old kids will pick up 10 pins, right? So I never picked up a 10 Pin Ball in my life. So Danny Wiseman became my annual celebrity off the tour always where he would come down to Dundalk if some of you see with decline. Because he said picking up a duck pinball just threw them all up different games. I like being in a batting cage. It was in baseball. So he got injured and he started bowling. And he couldn’t build duck pens to save his life. So he would come down to every year to our charity event. We did a Fred blog. And you’ll see it in the documentary because John Deere, John Buren did it. Nikolai Volkoff they didn’t have a shoe for a shoe. And Michael Jackson thriller for the Ravens. He was abducted both So Eric Rhett was a great 10 Wow. Yeah, Hines Ward drum bedroom bed. It

David Richardson  04:14

was a fantastic.

Nestor J. Aparicio  04:16


So Danny, every year would make fun of me duck pins up child’s game, you know, complete a man’s game and get into PBA Hall of Fame and be a champion 20 time champion and well, so Danny always was trying to get me in my son when my son was little to bolt 10 pence. And for years he tried to get us out. And finally this happened. I have the picture of the three of us the day it happened. My son looks to be 16 or 17. My son was in high school. So this is 2001 that I finally boasts I’m 34 years old at the time 20 years ago, 2022 years ago, and we did it at Brunswick Perry Hall, which is down the street from you Her family’s lanes were in Parkville Correct. Your family’s lanes were Harford and Taylor in the back for our OB a huge Parkville people, right? So it’s in the back of the plaza. This is up in Perry Hall. He said we go in and it’s just like this shoe in the afternoon. There’s nobody in the center and it’s Downstairs there to Brunswick snap downstairs in the back. And Danny walks in and these autographs on the wall and a gift shop right? He’s got a special Danny ball. He’s got bags with monogram this. This is what he’s doing all the peak crotch chakra you’re talking about right? He’s got the fire shirt going on monogrammed and I walk in with my kid. And we’re gonna grab a ball off the rack. So I grabbed the ball off the rack, I grabbed the lightest ball that my little hand with my missing finger can fit into. And we went down to the lanes and Danny’s like God, he’s checking the oils and he’s checking lanes and he’s just gonna kick my ass right? He’s gonna kick my ass. He was healthy. He has a wrist thing going on and all that stuff he does. And he’s trying to pick out a ball from like Danny apples heavy my fingers on fitting that hole. Let me bow what the hell I want to call that little ball. You don’t want to do the house ball that sweet. We get on the lanes and I’m warming up and I had never touched the 10 Pin Ball in my life and I’m not literally I’m not making that up. I just why would I we went out on the lanes. They had one striker Danny had an open frame. Had another striker Danny has striker had another striker. Danny has spare. I’m up. I had five or six strikes in a row. At the start. I had a like an 80 pin advantage real quick like by the fourth or fifth frame, man sweat and now he’s sitting back looking. He’s trying to do the math. He’s like, Dude, I need five strings to be you know, once we got to the sixth frame, and he hit one maybe hit a second one. Then he busted and I won. And I’m in a bowling center to Homer off of Messina gauge. And the only thing better than telling you the story is that he went and printed that I did it. He autographed it to me. And every time he’s ever come on the show I doggies Yes. I be a Hall of Fame bar. One game that’s the greatest sports accomplishment. Other than learning to eat we’ll call it quits learning the woodshop in Beijing when my wife and I ordered a bowl of soup in China and they brought me to eat the soup. And I thought at that moment, I’m gonna learn how to do chopsticks. Wow, I haven’t touched a 10 Pin Ball in 20 years. I beat him in the first game and then Mike Trout

Alan Foreman  07:53

might want to pick up a ball.

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:56

kicked my ass the next two because I went along with it. But I didn’t want to bowl those gyms. I wanted to just drop it. So I haven’t touched the 10 pin since that day. That’s a true story.

David Richardson  08:06

That’s all he was in here. He was in here. No Danny was in here. He moved I think he moved to California or southern Florida and moved to Florida he came in gave all kinds of memorabilia to the kids and he was in his he was in his glory all the kids and a throw up on the big screen. These kids didn’t they didn’t know who he was really that much. So I threw up all his big throw up all the big videos on YouTube of his wins and oh my god, he was in his he was


Nestor J. Aparicio  08:31

talking Danny remember in Rocky at the end when they were hugging each other? They said ain’t gonna be no rematch. I will do it right here. We’ll do it here. I told Danny there was not going to be a rematch because when you beat one

David Richardson  08:44

on one though, make a Megan bow on the other side. So

Alan Foreman  08:46

you can do one on one. David will fill the house. Just get it go. We’ll

David Richardson  08:50


do it. We look you got you got to do this. You can do this first. We could do this for a scout master. You could do you could do duck pen and temp and both at the same time I’m

Nestor J. Aparicio  08:58

taking I’m gonna take a picture right now. And then when you’re gonna tell me while I take the picture how this happened. And then we’re gonna get back to racing because I want to do that.

David Richardson  09:07

How did this happen? Yeah, no, I mean, this was luck. I’ve been in here since I was a kid. I really did. You know, I would always come in here. I grew up. Well, I mean, I would come in here. No, no, no, I’m I moved up here. Mid 80s. It was right when this place was opening. And this is where were we I bowled as a kid. You know, I was 10 years old or something like that ran it first. Yeah, we had to change hands a few times. And I was at Gulfstream park and I always said, you know, I know the economics. No one’s getting rich, owning a bowling alley. But this was a kid like I said this was a community center. It really was. And I always said to the lady that owned it. I said look, make me your first call. If you ever can’t do this anymore. Don’t sell this to be a car dealership or, you know, you know something else? I would

Nestor J. Aparicio  09:54

have turned it into a curling Yeah.


David Richardson  09:56

Stop pins if you can. I mean obviously at Gulfstream Park I remember My phone rings. It’s a lady that owns bowling alley. So, so she called me I was in Gulfstream park and I was in the paddock a Gulfstream Park, by the way, beautiful, beautiful love Gulfstream Park. But so long story short, you know, I kind of racked my brain to figure out okay, how can I, how can I make the economics work? And you looked at the numbers, it doesn’t work, you know, there’s no way I mean, you can spend what she wanted for the property here. So that’s when I kind of came up with this idea laying in bed. We were we had just opened the Timonium OTB, and Allah remembers when we was quite a process when we opened the Imodium OTP. And we did it on behalf of the industry. And I said, Wait a minute, okay. I’ve

Nestor J. Aparicio  10:41

been the next grant stay on shape. So

Alan Foreman  10:45

we had to go through to get that Oh, my

David Richardson  10:47


goodness. So so But no, we were just doing that. So I said, Okay, wait a minute. OTP. There’s a lot of horse people up there in Carroll County. I said, Why don’t we figure out an OTB with that. And that’s where I instead of putting it in here, you know, I would have had the knockouts and duck pin lanes. I’m not knocking out duck that a boy. I’m not doing it. So that’s what I met Chris next door. And I said, Look, instead of putting it the bowling alley, there was a bank next door, or Yeah, it was seems empty space, Chris couldn’t fill because he didn’t have the parking for it. And I said instead of competing with one another let’s partner and he’s one of the best guys I’ve ever met my life. I mean, Makespan crabcakes, who makes a great card put up just a decent, just a decent guy. And we became as a customer. Yes. I never knew him. I just knew his restaurant. And it was restaurants.

Nestor J. Aparicio  11:30

I knew that before you knew my way before.

David Richardson  11:32

I just walked in. I said, let me talk to the owner now. Okay. And I said, Look, I’ve got a crazy idea. I might, you know, be interested in saving the bowling alley next door, maybe we can go in business together. And I pitched the idea of doing the the OTB and we partnered with Maryland Jockey Club and we put an OTB over there. And that OTB is what China generated, you know, some buzz and let us you know, have some confidence that we could do this financially. And it just worked. It just worked. And we we did the OTB that was it a bowling five or six years ago. Nice. Yeah. Well, thank you. I mean, we’ve rebuilt it from the ground. I mean, she had two televisions and carpet on the walls. And this is, you know, if

Nestor J. Aparicio  12:12

I told my wife I was taking out bowling and we came up here for a disco night or call


David Richardson  12:18

from Taylor Swift. And I think what June 1, I think we just said something out. Was it Taylor Swift? Come on, you’ll say this place would be packed, be packed with

Nestor J. Aparicio  12:26

my wife and playing the new album in the car lately. So So, but your horse racing work predates all of this, right? No, yeah, no. I mean, you guys have known each other long time 30 Year 2530 a lot on and the Preakness is coming in a couple of weeks, and I can’t. You’re the marketing guy. You’re taking this over that these changes are coming. I think you’re about to share with me maybe the most long form story of this, that you’ve done. I haven’t seen any of this on the news, quite frankly, the new news people they don’t young people, they don’t know about any of this. They they put a hat on. I mean, I remember talking to Brandon Scott, when he was City Council President, I saw him at the Preakness. And he’s, you know, dressed up. We were out there that day. I saw John Angelo’s that day, and Stuart Pitman’s, this is when the Save the Preakness buttons were asked 36, seven years ago, and he told me he had never been to the racetrack in his life. And he grew up in a neighborhood. So you don’t I mean, like so it’s, if you’re a horse racing person, and you wouldn’t start talking about picture already, and Marty McGee and all these trolley expert and all that. What is it now? And Alan, I’ll let you come in on this because you talk about it sort of crashing to the point where like it needed to be rethought rebuilt. You went three, three and a half years trying to put this thing together. There’s a lot of questions. Even the last night at the legislature three weeks ago, I ran into you in Fort Myers at Spring training. You said Man, the big ones next week, you’ll let me know the night before you text me and said Tomorrow is our day I lit a candle for you. Because, you know, I’m that guy. What happened in Annapolis a couple of weeks ago out?

Alan Foreman  13:56

Well, I. David, I’ll tell you I didn’t have any doubt that it would pass. We we could not take a bill to the legislature until we had an agreement with the Stronach group in iron. They wanted an iron clad agreement that a not for profit would take over operations here that there would be a change, maybe not so much ownership of the Preakness but control of the Preakness, and that there was a plan going forward that could be executed within the framework that was approved in 2020. No new money is not going to be any taxpayer dollars. We had to figure out a way to wait a way to make this work. But it would not move forward without ironclad agreements with the Stronach group, and they still own it or will own it or they will they will continue to own the Preakness. It belongs to them. And the only way we would acquire that is if we actually bought it. And there’s some question as to the value or the long term value of the Preakness and the rights to the author. Preakness properties intellectual property, and the media state wasn’t going to buy that didn’t have the money to do it probably couldn’t justify doing it, although it probably would have made infinite sense to do so. And so a brilliant Baltimore lawyer, who heads the Maryland racetrack thoroughbred operating authority, Greg Krause, negotiated these agreements on behalf of the governor in the state. And he was able to arrange a licensing agreement where

Nestor J. Aparicio  15:29


the governor and the state is this leftover from Hogan, or is this just better in the West more ministry? Well, it’s

Alan Foreman  15:35

changed because the plan that was approved during the Hogan administration wasn’t going to happen. And quite frankly, and I think it was made very clear to us. And I’d certainly tried to make clear to David and our people, that if we don’t come up with a plan now, and if we don’t get it done now, and we don’t get agreements executed, it will never happen. And the fate of Maryland racing, and the Preakness going forward, in my own personal opinion, was highly in doubt. So we we knew a year ago, we had one year to get this fixed and to get it right. And we’ve been working. We’ve actually been working for years, but very intensely in the last year. Looking at various options, the Maryland thoroughbred racetrack operate, operating authority was created for several purposes. One most importantly, if the Stronach group decided to reduce live racing in the state or not operated at all, we needed somebody to step in to keep things going. If they decided to ban we’re just going to come in for a week and we’re on the brink. Right, exactly. It would have killed the industry and killed the breeding industry. So we needed to have an entity, a state entity that would have the ability to step in and take over number one. Number two, we needed this authority to reimagine and re study the 2020 plan, which was not economically feasible and make it work and see if there was a way to make it work. That’s how we came up with this plan. It’s called Pimlico plus, which is now consolidation of racing and Pimlico with the construction of a training center and owned by the state correct. The state will own Pimlico, okay, the state will own the training center. Racing will be operated by a not for profit that is currently being created if the model exists

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:17

no overlord of what will be what I would know as Frank to Francis or what I modern people might know as Frank Stronach. And then Belinda, the person who owns the industry will be this new thing

Alan Foreman  17:34

will be us controlling our chronic


Nestor J. Aparicio  17:38

folks, Belinda’s folks in the future only own Preakness not the week of Preakness, just the name of

Alan Foreman  17:45

they own it, but they’re going to license it to the state of Maryland and we will control it or rent the premiums. Correct.

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:52

So she wants nothing to do with any of this other than the fact that she owns this asset called the Preakness that is leased back on an annual basis. It’s a fee, you pay your X million to this and you get that and then you have to go and then you have the whole band. Now this is this is different folks.

David Richardson  18:10


This creative creative

Nestor J. Aparicio  18:11

anniversary will show this week I’ve been here for all of this and it’s nothing like But you told me it was going to blank screen. Why do you want to just in the last segment, I wanted to really do the history for anybody that is just flying over and wants to take two hours in this podcast that green male bowl and learn a little bit because like I know a lot about this and I know a lot about structure. I’ve done a lot of alibis. All of that stuff I guess what we’re talking about is rethinking All right, go ahead. Yeah, no, no, I mean we’re putting morals gonna be gone right.

Alan Foreman  18:42

Laurel is gonna eventually probably we’ve got a three year lease agreement at Laurel Renfree where this transition from but

Nestor J. Aparicio  18:52

doesn’t have any money going into Laurel because it’s falling apart That’s right That’s right we’re gonna keep while we build the net will be an asset the state can turn into a car dealership or no, no


Alan Foreman  19:01

Laurel will revert to its own by the Stronach strain, they will keep it and they will commercially develop it if they want to be completely out of there. They can do

Nestor J. Aparicio  19:12

to them but what the Astronics get out of this is they get the land, they get the lease Preakness back to you. They wash their hands of every one of you every everything loss they’re done with that they’re just now a slum landlord and Laura when it’s all over with the salad piece of parcel it do all that and they own they’re gonna get a check every year guaranteed revenue from the name Preakness there, that’s

David Richardson  19:39

they’re taking this in the industry itself, and the Preakness will be controlled by Marylanders, Maryland horsemen, you know, the state of Maryland and it’s our responsibility to

Nestor J. Aparicio  19:50


name a commission. There’s going to be correct. There’s going to be a frank to Francis.

Alan Foreman  19:55

There will be first of all you have the authority the authority will oversee the property, wealth. This is the Maryland thoroughbred racetrack operating authority, which works with the Maryland stadium authority. So there should be confidence, you should be confident to that I’m a member of the Board of this new authority. And I can tell you knew of that already. It was created last year,

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:15

the Maryland State Authority did 40 years ago, which is we’re gonna have a new state run Correct? Well,

Alan Foreman  20:20

and the great thing is the Maryland stadium authority is overseeing this construction project. They’re intimately involved, they will be responsible for the construction of both the new Pimlico and the new training center, and that there’s already been a ton of legwork done over the past four or five years.


Nestor J. Aparicio  20:37

When I saw Craig on opening day, Tom Kelso has been on many, many times, much to the chagrin of some Democrats. i Hey, man, I black, white, right, left Democrat. I just want truth. That’s, you know, that’s my story. I’d love to have Craig Thompson and what their role in all of this is, because let’s be honest, you are paying for it. Right? We’re citizens, right? I mean, we’re in this, but to your point, there’s no new money, and the money was already allocated, is now going to stay in the city. It’s going to be a new thing. And we’re figuring out what that what the plans are drawn for that. Are we going to redraw them? No, the

Alan Foreman  21:11

design was never done for Pimlico, because the project stalled. We did engage through the procurement process, that design team, they’re the they’re world

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:21

renowned was a picture. It wasn’t like a whole rendering done

Alan Foreman  21:25


for purposes of the plant. They are now but if you want to get some sense of what we may be looking at Belmont Park is undergoing the same reconstruction that we are doing here, they’re going to eliminate aqueduct racing in New York will be consolidated a Dormont. And then at Saratoga in the summer, they are building a facility very similar to what we’re doing. They’re downsizing substantial,

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:47

places, ginormous, right? Like three times, smarty Jones, Big Brown, funny side, nothing. And then one year. Bad fruits and Pharaohs like all of this, right. But I mean, I’ve been all I mean, I love the spin on I mean, like

Alan Foreman  22:08

we’re positioning racing in Maryland, for the next 30 years. And it’s going to be fresh. And it’s going to be a lot of change. I mean, it’s not going to look the same. But it’s going to be for Maryland, by Maryland, and about Maryland. And that, to me is you can’t replace that. And there’s nowhere and there are only two places in the country where this kind of transformation is taking place. One is New York at Belmont, and the other is Maryland. So it’s for us and for the racing industry. It’s a very exciting time, with great opportunity, but great challenges. This is not an easy project. It’s never been

Nestor J. Aparicio  22:46

like I’m about to think about quitting this thing and selling this thing. I want to come run your thing. And I’m thinking it’d be hard. I mean here to me, like I mean, like literally, it would be difficult. Dave talks about the challenges talk about like, what Okay, so you got this done and you and I the night before we’re you thought you both thought was gonna happen. You said to me, let’s get together maybe up the bowl in place. I picked this day when I can go next door and have a cold one and watch the Orioles play. What are you What have we done in eliminating the strong acts? And what is probably a lot of things sitting there to sing are what’s first and foremost design of the new facility right I obviously and then whoever and it probably isn’t going to be me. But you do well to have someone like me run, run whatever it is and and deal with horses, trainers, tracks, construction state gamblers and then really trying to attract people turn because I mean you mentioned Gulfstream to me, I was down at Gulfstream when they open it for the Superbowl about oh nine it was it was a it was a Fort Lauderdale Super Bowl, then we everything was up there. And I remember meet my wife at the track that night and I had been there before it was fixed. And then I went back like three years ago, four years ago. My God, the whole community that we talked about being built around it, or it was a tired old racetrack and a tired neighborhood like on a Ritchie highway. And now they’ve basically turned it into you know, Gucci mall south, you know, all right. I mean, it’s like about Las Vegas. It looks like a little gold Las Vegas term on the side of Fort Lauderdale like they they followed through 15 years later. And I would say we’re not doing that in Pimlico. But


David Richardson  24:27

we had the opportunity to do something different too. And we ended it’s, I mean, that’s the biggest challenge is, you know, we have a whole industry like I said, it’s a two plus billion dollar industry to the state of Maryland. So I mean, the biggest challenge is going to be figuring out how to convert, you know, our community. I mean, we have in Maryland, you know, we’re going to have over 1200 horses that we have to house and we have a whole community in the whole industry with that. So in the transition and going from right now we have horses at Laurel and we have horses at Pimlico. We have a I have a workforce that actually lives at both racetracks. So we have to figure out how to, you know, reconstruct Pimlico from the ground up and literally Pimlico will be scraped and rebuilt from the ground up even the

Nestor J. Aparicio  25:12

racetrack will be primary for a cup

David Richardson  25:15

of flour will be Laurel will actually host the Preakness and make sure the pipes Yeah, I mean, Laura will actually host the Preakness, the 100 and 51st Preakness, which is in 2026. Correct. So the 2026 Preakness told me nothing about this, that the 2026 Preakness will be salesman will be held at Laurel. I think there’s still some some planning to do is to like acmin Lovely Little rail. So Laurel, Laurel is not going away anytime soon. But eventually, the the the overall goal is to consolidate racing at Pimlico, and to build a training facility could be in Carroll County here. There’s one piece of property in Carroll County that’s under consideration. We’re really excited about that. It’s a farm called shamrock farm. There’s also a piece of property in Aberdeen that’s under serious consideration and and even the buoy racetrack Believe it or not, that’s still around, you know, as a as

Nestor J. Aparicio  26:10


a facility, when the airplane comes in, down by buoy I’m like, you can always see that that was

David Richardson  26:15

a buoy had the best racing surface. I mean, we made we may have stopped training there. And what was the 2014 15 or so I think nine

Nestor J. Aparicio  26:24

seven. Rich Pietro puts me in a station wagon. Let’s go down to the track. And I went down there you go in little white card up in the escalator there. And he’s like, look, in a fifth race you bet JC poise and sole proprietor you box that you don’t do anything else today? You box. I didn’t box it, you know, pay 290 You know, like 37 years later? I’m still pissed about it. But yeah. So I could have been a contender could

David Richardson  26:51

have been you could have been. You did. Okay. You did? Well, we still under consideration. Like I said, we got we got three properties. I think it’s still, you know, it’s probably going to be between one of those three. I mean, I guess the doors still open if there was another piece of property that that will be the training facility that feeds we’ll probably have about, you know, it could have up to six to 700 horses at Pimlico. Once Pimlico was rebuilt, so we’re Pimlico


Nestor J. Aparicio  27:16

fully running operational 2727. That’s

David Richardson  27:22

the goal. Okay, so

Nestor J. Aparicio  27:23

27 We get Pimlico open. What in your mind? Does racing look like? How many people go there? How many people go there on a Tuesday or Wednesday? Is there a disco is he is there? Is there a slot machine? What what is that facility? Because I know it’s not a big red racetrack is falling apart. That’s African DEM. And it’s not going to look like a grandstand. It’s not going to look like Guys and Dolls. It’s just not right. But it’s a different day. It’s

David Richardson  27:50


a different age. And we have to you know, we had it at least with this we have the ability to craft this the way that you know that that Baltimore accepts that Maryland except Merriweather

Nestor J. Aparicio  28:01

now, and I see what they’ve done there from a concert and I’ve been going to Merriweather 40 years, same different lon value sitting on front for you know a big show paying more. But it’s it’s an incredible experience, you know, and they’ve improved it dramatically in so many ways. And I brag about it all the time. I think that if you’re building something that doesn’t look like Del Mar that doesn’t look like Hollywood or Telestream. There’s something about it. That is for

David Richardson  28:30

the challenge. Look, we host one of the premier sporting events in the world here. Preakness we really, it’s our Super Bowl. And you know, no disrespect to the Stronach folks, but the practice actually lost money. You know, by their by their accounts. They lost money. The the Kentucky Derby profited well in excess of $100 million. So we’ve got this entity of the Preakness, and strat IK. the Preakness has changed back when you know you were talking about and reminiscing about the Preakness. Preakness was made for boredom, but the Preakness was a different entity. There was a different experience, but it was a nice and it was it was a different experience because it was it was catered to Maryland Baltimore, it was a Baltimore thing

Nestor J. Aparicio  29:13

my family’s friends through the Lexington, crab race. We’re gonna be doing that a couple of weeks. But


David Richardson  29:17

Stronach did and I give I give Belinda credit, and I give their team credit and they tried something different. But it was more of a set in one meeting. It was more like South Beach. It was more of a something that worked at Gulfstream or something that worked in Santa Anita. But those things don’t really work in Baltimore, you know, we know it that this is our culture. This is who we are. Baltimore is a little different. You know, it’s a different customer. And it Preakness when Preakness was profitable and successful. It’s because it was it was the People’s Party. It was the Preakness was the People’s Party. And it kind of got away from that it kind of got away from me

Nestor J. Aparicio  29:53

Bruno Mars and Tom Brady and Kevin Plank and the underarmor mixing they have out there. I’ve gone to see 15 of the last 20 pregnancies so I’ve seen it but I’m trying to envision how what it’s going to look like when there’s not.

Alan Foreman  30:06

So let me tell ya Alright, so let me tell you what’s going to be different. The grandstand, the clubhouse are going to corner grandson will be a third the size of what it currently is maximum capacity weekday 5000 less room for people to move around. People don’t want to sit in seats today at any sporting event.

Nestor J. Aparicio  30:24


That’s what they’re saying. And that’s what I’m saying the hill I talked about. That’s why I brought Merriweather up because I’m thinking if if, if you have a little height, and there and you don’t need a structure to watch a 92nd horse race to go back into something comfortable, where you can eat drink, gamble, the you know, whatever you want to do indoors, have smoke, whatever it is in and out, right, like when you I love going out to Pimlico and I’ll go there and the damn elevators won’t work this box again if you can get your kid get up there David Joseph please I’m still here. I’m still real media trust me. But like I think about like what that day is going to look and feel like for for so many people. It’s grass. And they don’t see the horses it you know, the infield serve side of that.

Alan Foreman  31:13

So we’re going to build it up. And they’re going to be overlays. You go if you don’t know if you went to caves Valley when the profile picture here I did that was all overlays around a golf course you take those overlays away. You’ve just got open golf course land, they made it stadium stall, the way it was built stadium around the rain born that way. It was gorgeous. And that’s what we will be doing. There’ll be pads there, we will build up for Preakness, we will take down if there are special events that we want to do. We can build up with overlays and take them down. But to build up huge clubhouse for one day or one day a year makes no sense at all. So what we’ve told the design team is number one, we want an iconic facility. Number two, we want to be able to use it on a day to day basis.

Nestor J. Aparicio  31:58

Memorial Stadium. I have to tie this dream in man.

Alan Foreman  32:03

There’s some people who liked the design of that the stadium authority did what 678 years ago for Pimlico glass, Aki think it wasn’t a glass thing that was before what we did. I hated it. And they brought it up and I said don’t please don’t show me that again. I want an iconic facility for future generations I don’t want to look like and no offense to old Baltimore. I don’t want to look what it to look like and Enoch Pratt


Nestor J. Aparicio  32:27

librum No, no offense to Janet Murray, who built a baseball stadium to look old school. But it is right right. But this, this gets you Anna Marie Kanopy will build this for you. You

Alan Foreman  32:38

know, you want to transfer you want to transform that portion of Baltimore and start to liven things up. This is just my centerpiece

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:45

for something new. You’re correct. That everything we talked about this bowling alley has to stand that has to be different. You know, the other problem is that doesn’t get me excited about the same thing with the Rubenstein people buying the Oreos, I keep using this Deepak Chopra will deep thought for your pure potentiality. You know, like, literally, it’s a blank canvas with a rich history behind that canvas. And it’s how do you make people nervous and pure through and touch that history, but also feel like I’m not doing an old fuddy duddy thing or you know, all these little funny. looking sexy.

Alan Foreman  33:23


Look what David has done here. look better on my face, it’s bowling alley, but you walk in and you have an entertainment center in here. And people come in on a Saturday night you can’t get in here. And it’s it’s that kind of thinking that we need that I think we could incorporate into what we’re doing. And there’s a there’s a desire, a real desire in the heart to do it. Not in no criticism of the Stronach group, because I think it wouldn’t be any privately operated operator who would have trouble with that model who just get their out of state

Nestor J. Aparicio  33:55

interest would say right now this will make you smile. You want an expert call somebody’s mad at town. A leader? Yeah, I do, Charlie in the press box, it would be blue. But the Charlie on the radio wouldn’t be blue. I don’t know what are answering your elbow. But all I have to caveat Canadian gentleman. He would be going nuts with that. He wouldn’t be our

Alan Foreman  34:21

challenges. The Pimlico isn’t big enough to consolidate the industry would be great. If we could put everybody in one place. Eliminate the expense of a training center. It’s very difficult to get 1400 horses at one track with just the two surfaces maybe the three will have. So we have to do a training center. But we can do that in a way that could be really exciting. Also

Nestor J. Aparicio  34:42

Ravens have a training center. So fun, I think will attract horsemen from across the country.


Alan Foreman  34:48

I think it’ll be great for racing. The surfaces at the training center will be identical to the surface at Pimlico. So there’s no disadvantage of what you know those who want to be at Pimlico can be at Pimlico those who want to be at the Training Center. We hope we have a close enough to Pimlico that vanning is not an issue. We’re going to have new housing for the backstretch workers, the current housing, you wouldn’t put your worst. Yeah. It’s a disgrace. It’s embarrassing. David’s been working to Davidson and some really creative. Yeah, well, I mean, David’s doing some really creative work there. And so it’s a it’s a very exciting time. But it’s boy, is it challenging?

Nestor J. Aparicio  35:27

Okay, so give me a timeline here, because timeline was three weeks ago, you’re like, I hope now. It’s like, let’s do a show and talk about it a little bit. And that’s, you know, it’s an entree because there’s going to be updates. I have a feeling you guys will be coming back to me before next year’s Preakness and saying there’s something else going on. But hopefully top three four things on your mind and that for

David Richardson  35:46

audiences, hopefully Governor more signs this legislation which we have every indication.

Alan Foreman  35:51


Preakness week I think he wants to celebrate the Preakness. I think you’ll see a think of a crab cage.

David Richardson  35:57

So once a governor more signs of legislation needs to go to the Board of Public Works. Once that’s done, then then the work really I mean, we’ve been doing work for the past few years, but then the work really ramps up. The next two Preakness is will be held at Pimlico. This is the 149 this is 149 Next year is 150. There’s gonna be some challenges next year because there will be and what do you think the bad first the year before? You’ll see some demolition at Pimlico. I think that’s probably why we started. They

Alan Foreman  36:26

may be the end of this year, but there’s some advanced work that needs to be done, I think by Preakness 2025, the condemned portion of the grandstand that’s covered with tarps. Yes, we’ll be down and it was the old breezeway, and the old barns will be down. Okay, so that work will be done before the 2025 Preakness as soon as 2020 2025 Preakness is over, then oh, demolition is going to take place. And then

Nestor J. Aparicio  36:53

you have literally 23 months, kind of sort of stadium


Alan Foreman  36:57

authority thinks they can get the project done in three years from January 120 25. We would not have worked the agreements on that timeline if we weren’t comfortable that they were comfortable and getting this work done. I think the other timeline and maybe David, you are coming to that is that this new not for profit we’re creating will take over this industry and the authority are going to take over Maryland racing on January 120 25. So that’s right. Okay, the only involvement the Stronach group will have a note certainly cooperate during the transition, they’ll stall or Laurel is that they will conduct the 2025 and 2026 Preakness 2025 in Baltimore. 26 at Laurel and you say can talk to its Bruno Mar, it’s that whatever they want to do, it’s their baby. We don’t take over until 2027. And that will be the first Preakness under this new regime that we’re creating. It’ll be new. Alright, we’ll

Nestor J. Aparicio  37:54

be different. All right, well, so what did we learn to your Danny wise? Rematch your dream now? We’re gonna have a Preakness in a couple of weeks, and we’re gonna run two of these and then we’re gonna go to Laurel, and then we’re going to come back to a brand new shiny thing at Pimlico. That’s going to be different. Did I some better? I mean, we won’t think everybody in your industry the people that grow horses, make horses, feed horses, stole horses, cared of horses, all of that the veterinary everybody. Lando, just everybody has to be pleased with the fact that just the old way was not tenable. Even if you’re thinking, David Allen know what the hell they’re doing, we’re all going to hell at the least it’s different than whatever the psychology was before because there is a new term Northstar, right there was there’s a new thing you’re going to do here? Absolutely,

David Richardson  38:47

absolutely. So the future is going to be in the industries hands, you know, once they just Alan them, it’s

Alan Foreman  38:54


giving our money to somebody else, we’re gonna give it to ourselves, we’re betting on ourselves, we think we can do this, we think we can be successful. And we wouldn’t be able to build a new facility, we wouldn’t be able to do what we’re doing, if we didn’t have not only the confidence to do it, but we worked with experts for years now who firmly believe we can make this work.

Nestor J. Aparicio  39:15

Well, I mean, for me to sort of endorse it one way or another just to hear and I’m trying to get my arms around it, but I am not I’m so far gone 32 years into doing this on radio, that you don’t have to sell me on the fact that there are horse farms out here. And as a real industry, there’s a lot of land I’ve been given that on the PR crap side and on the reality side of it backs up the checks out I mean, in the state if you live in the city, like I don’t go to the track. I don’t bet on that. You know, I mean, I don’t play on the cross, but I understand it’s been a lot of people. Look we just gave these these billionaires $600 million each that literally run for me they literally don’t want no questions want no accountability at all, for these billion dollar properties that they Have and and I love sports. But I’ve been taken advantage of in that way, right. And we all have been taken advantage of you guys are trying to do this on sort of on the up and up understanding that, to your point. 1975 was the biggest thing in the world. It’s not anymore. But it could still be a regional thing that we thought there is absolutely no way you can you can save duck pens here, we can save horse racing. We

Alan Foreman  40:20

are so much a part of the history, the culture and the economy of this state. And I travel all over the country with my work. Everybody knows Kentucky is the capital of thoroughbred racing. But there’s no other state that I’ve been to that has that same feel than Maryland. This state is gorgeous. And when you drive around, it doesn’t matter. East West North South seahorse forums for the Colts name

Nestor J. Aparicio  40:47

should have never had any. I mean, we can all agree on that. Can we get


Alan Foreman  40:52

anything good don’t even go there. Before midnight

Nestor J. Aparicio  40:55

is a pleasure to know you. It’s been a it’s been a long time coming. Thank you and you enjoy delicious crab cake with you and share some stories, some mutual friends that we both beam about because we know good people, right? We literally I mean in a pleasure if there’s nothing in this documentary that I put this thing out is that people are smiling that I’ve previewed it too. But there’s so many people that have brought sports together and people like you like still I can’t believe I’ve never met you. Like you know what I mean? Like, I feel like I’ve met everybody, how can I meet a guy with all these mutual mutual so it’s not

Alan Foreman  41:28

just a lawyer, you know, I’m not the guy who’s doing the kind of stuff the answer. So you don’t I mean, I’ve been around a long time. I’ve seen everything that’s happened in Maryland racing. I’ve been on that watch list. I’ve seen it.

Nestor J. Aparicio  41:40


I told my my wife will tell you I don’t listen to anybody. But she agrees. I listened to my lawyer. And I listened to my doctor. Oh, and I listen to Jr, my engineer. I don’t take anything for granted.

Alan Foreman  41:52

I told David to trust me on this deal. And look, look what happened. Well


look and longer I

Nestor J. Aparicio  41:56

am I’m looking forward to seeing what you guys are gonna bake up. And this is not my last time here in the bowl. And next time I’m gonna have disco boots on and you know, we’ll do it up right up here. You know what you should do? It’s a good idea for you to do a yacht rock night up here.


David Richardson  42:10

I’ll give it the summer. Come and sit up here and have a playlist you do the playlist, you know, pack them in,

Nestor J. Aparicio  42:18

you know, outside, you know, like put something that’s yacht Rocky out here. You know,

David Richardson  42:22

maybe we’ll bring Christopher Carlson here. We’ll do a little consequence. Right on the left. I had Jr. Richards here last year from this wallet. He came in. He came in last year so

Nestor J. Aparicio  42:33


I liked it because up all right, rock and roll was here to stay. We’re up here pre mount bowl. Next degree mount station. Yes, you can gamble. Yes, you can OTB Yes, you can get a crab cake. Yes, you can watch the Royals game. And you can also want to tell us what brought that

David Richardson  42:47

what’s your June 1? I think June Yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s sold down and it will be I have to go check the book up. There might be but we’ll promote it. We’ll get the word out there.

Alan Foreman  42:57

All right, it’s sold out in 10 minutes.

Nestor J. Aparicio  42:59

Hurry up Romeo. You know take my thanks everybody up here in Carroll County for always supporting us as well friends at the Maryland lottery. Give me these Pac Man scratches and because you guys are of the tender age, they get the Pac Man scratch offs as well. I’m going to be faithless on Friday with Luke Jones for the Orioles game. They’re going to be more crabcake tour stops coming. But right now my wife’s out of town. I’m trying to get this crazy movie done. The movie is premiered. No one listens everyone hears and evidence of that is that you are listening right now to wn st and 1570, Towson Baltimore. We’re signing off from Green mount bowl in Carroll County, because the baseball games coming on and I got a real fever.

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