Sports brand artist and historian Todd Radom discusses the power of the laundry and logos for lifer fans like Nestor, who has been bingeing on the laundry of his youth and the gaudy 1970s color palette. Let him show ya…
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
logo, uniforms, jersey, wear, game, franchise, baseball, baltimore, day, todd, white sox, orioles, years, team, play, astros, good, white, oriole, pajamas
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Todd Radom
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home we are Baltimore positive wn S T. am 1570, Towson Baltimore. We got the cupcake out on Friday just our 25th anniversary we’ve been doing Maryland crab cake tours I’m gonna have the schedule out of Baltimore positive we’re gonna be giving away the Ravens scratch offs into October November. The crab cakes were asked to go on a little bit of a hiatus because we have playoff baseball and playoff baseball breeds uncertainty. This guy here is become a friend of mine because I’m a whack job about uniforms as is Luke, who considers himself a you know, Fashion Police on game days where too many times I put the television on and I have to tweet the same thing happened the other night when the Browns were playing in their pajamas. That why is this team wearing their pajamas? This guy is an artist, a logo Person A Brand Builder. He has been a part of development of some of the logos that you’re familiar with in the modern world as well as criticizing and oftentimes praising some of the world’s greatest logos like the jersey I’m wearing right now from the 79 Orioles and throwback even though and I found this on the interweb because you can mix and match now you can get an Aparicio 79 Jersey even though he never played with the Orioles is 79 and you can you can have your cake and eat it too with this whole Mitchell and ness and fanatics and throwbacks and create your own jersey. Todd radium is in Philadelphia. He has been other places including New York and has been in the design world for a long, long time. He has a really sexy cool studio. It’s a press pinch there that I used to have when I was in the media. Todd, how are you happy? I’m happy hanging the bunting and hopefully were traditional uniforms and knocked over to you.
Todd Radom 01:43
Nestor how are you and Happy anniversary to you? 25 years, it’s something that warrants a logo. Nice, big number.
Nestor Aparicio 01:50
Well, that’s why we got the cupcake logo here and the Disney World fireworks because it felt appropriate here. Like you’ve watched this from afar with the Oreo thing before me to get the logos and all the your like your fan your pan your I think specifically maybe more of a baseball fan than anything else. I see a lot of baseball games, the fascination with jerseys and all of that stuff goes back to the games. And when your team’s good. They can be wearing ugly jerseys and get away with it.
Todd Radom 02:14
Yeah, it’s a good point. I always say that I grew up in a family full of artists, I was never a particularly good athlete. So growing up, I kind of focused on the game on the field and things that were happening around the game, which is natural if you really think about all those things. And growing up in the 70s, which was I always say the most expressive era for uniform design. It really influenced everything I do today.
Nestor Aparicio 02:41
Well, this would be the style and the pirates gold and the Astros Starburst that the late 70s, early 80s. I mean, I’ve got a great baseball uniform design. I have so many things to show you, Todd, for those who are watching, you know, this is the Chico bailbonds. This is also a late 70s creation but baseball jerseys and what we should know about them and where it’s going with the Space Age things that the Astros were wearing the other night that look made them all look short and fat. And the Oriole city connects and all of these, sort of grossly Jetson II looking city connect jerseys. It was a big bone of contention here. And then the team went out and played like garbage in them most of the year. And those black friday jerseys with the colored piping. It feels like some of you are people get a little nuts when it comes to doing these jerseys. Todd,
Todd Radom 03:39
don’t blame me, Nestor, that’s not my fault. But I think you’ve got to look at this from the perspective from a couple of different angles. Number one. Baseball in particular is this game that’s sort of suited to introspection, right? It’s not basketball where you’ve got these guys moving up and down the court. And they’re wearing jerseys without sleeves, you can really focus on the baseball jersey. Secondly, let’s consider the fact that the baseball jersey in 2023 and beyond is very similar to the baseball jersey of 1869 when the Cincinnati Red Stockings became the first pro team, so you’ve got uniforms with buttons, what do we need buttons for I’m looking at what you’re wearing? The lack of buttons. Yeah. And it allows for this graphic to be on a unimpeded, basically. So you look at all of this. But I think about the fact that the baseball season in terms of the regular season, it’s 162 games, we have some room for expression. And then lastly, you glom on to this the fact that each and every one of us are absolutely totally distracted, right? We’ve got our faces and our devices. You can have a new identity for your team every single day and most people particularly younger people would appreciate that. So to your point, get the
Nestor Aparicio 04:58
Terps here, right i mean The jumps are always, you know, Nike and the sporting goods companies and how much they want to sell and putting a swoosh on it and putting Baltimore City. It’s about selling stuff. I mean, let’s be honest. But there’s a part of recognizability that I really struggle with with this specifically the NBA. Yes, it feels like the NBA. They just wear whatever they want, whenever they want. And it makes it harder for me to follow the plot when the colors change.
Todd Radom 05:26
When I see the Boston Red Sox these days in looking like UCLA, or the Ukrainian flag is one friend of mine, but they’re kind of standing around. There’s a lot of, as I said, moments for introspection with baseball, I know they’re the Red Sox, even though they don’t look like the Red Sox. When I see the Milwaukee Bucks on my on my phone and I want to see a highlight of Giannis and he’s wearing blue. I don’t know that it’s the bucks. So you are totally right. I think the NBA kind of does it wrong. And to your point. Also, anytime you step away from who you are, from a branding perspective, you’re chipping away at years and years and sometimes decades, decades of equity. Right? So why
Nestor Aparicio 06:11
would you think of being a Red Sox fan? And we watched them play in the end, I thought they were honoring Ukraine. Apparently they were honoring the marathon, right. So I had to do the research. Dude, if I don’t know what your brand stands for, and I gotta go googling it. That’s, that’s lousy. You know, I mean, I’m Purple and orange. You know, I’m in Baltimore, right? Like literally right like this. This isn’t rocket science, but they’re deprogramming. I mean, the Red Sox were in those pajamas. I mean, like, Todd, that’s just a bad decision. I mean, I don’t know who’s making that decision. But that’s a really lousy decision.
Todd Radom 06:44
I think we could agree that the best of these city connects and alternate jerseys writ large. Alternate uniforms are the ones that draw upon the the obvious, keep the team looking like the team, but expand upon it with storytelling a little bit. Right. And there are some MLB clubs that do it pretty well. You talked about the kind of garish SNESs of the Houston Astros space city uniforms. But they look like the Astros still, we can identify them as the Houston Astros, those core colors remain. Baltimore, whatever the optics are, okay, you know, they’re leaning into black on that. And, you know, they’re not a, they’re not they’re not yellow is what I’m trying to say Nestor. So, there’s a way to do this. And we’re gonna see more and more of these because people demand it, especially younger people, they love these things.
Nestor Aparicio 07:33
Well, when you call yourself the Orioles, you wear orange, when you call yourself, the Cardinals, you wear red. When you call yourself the Blue Jays, you should wear blue. I know about the White Sox I you know, I’ve gotten into that. And I’m going to share my white you had a Great White Sox hat on. So all of this started about the city connects and you and I got on into this online. And I’m always yelling anything. You know, Facebook knows when I start talking jerseys that like you might be interested in that. So it shows up on your timeline in my timeline. And we get into it here in the modern vernacular and you as an artist and watching this. Do you see things that you like? Because I rarely see things I like I mostly see things that are like the Red Sox wearing Ukrainian flag colors and saying what the hell are they doing? I rarely see something that I say. That’s it. Like I saw a picture Adam Jones last week with the Maryland flag inside the Oriole logo. That means something here might not mean anything to your eyes if you’re not from here. But if you know the craziness of the Maryland flag. I thought that kind of was cool that you know, it’d be some I might wear as an Oreo fan because it speaks to me locally. And it might not speak to anybody outside of town. But from a global perspective, do you see modern city connect where you’re really like that looks great. That That looks better than than anything they’ve ever put on, I rarely see that. I see a lot of swings and misses. I see a lot of trying real hard to sell ish, but not really taking a uniform and making it better and enhanced version of it.
Todd Radom 09:05
So we’ve got two things to talk about. Number one is the fact that I kind of in my mind, I separate what happens on the field from everything that happens off the field and for fan wear. You can wear a powder blue white sox hat, you can wear a purple Orioles hat, which actually makes sense in Baltimore. What happens between the lines gets a greater amount of scrutiny let’s put it this way.
Nestor Aparicio 09:31
Everything pink as a color has been completely usurped with the cancer movement that everybody has pink stuff right and it all looks kind of good. So
Todd Radom 09:39
yeah, and and but number two, I’ve reached the point in my life where I’m trying very consciously not to be the Get off my lawn guy. And to try to to try to think beyond my own personal sensibilities and being a guy who’s closing in on 60 years old over here. I grew up at a time as I said in the seven These were teams that kind of went off the rails went off in a big way
Nestor Aparicio 10:06
and is not off the rails. This is Beautiful Jersey man. I mean, this is perfect. I mean, I don’t know. I mean it was it was Ray Kroc and he wanted to look like they worked at McDonald’s like literally right that’s what that’s how this happened. Right?
Todd Radom 10:19
Well, you know, I’ve spoken to Dave Winfield about these uniforms and gave of course wore a number of different uniforms including these completely different those Padres uniforms when he broke in with that ballclub and then the New York Yankees pinstripes the most austere you know looks like a three piece suit. And of course they’ve been classic guy said, Well, you know what? Any uniform you wear as a major leaguer You’re honored to wear it. So he basically he backed away from the controversy entirely, but those Padres uniforms you know this and a lot of your listeners know this. Padres fans demanded the return of black and gold or brown and gold. Right. And at the time that those uniforms were in play, Steve Garvey said I used to play for the Dodgers. I looked down I look like an American flag. Now I look like a taco. Kurt bevilaqua said, we look like UPS drivers, right? They were all kinds of they went to something far more conservative. And then they came back to it a couple of years ago. Look, the padres,
Nestor Aparicio 11:19
the Astros, there have been these franchises. I mean, the Tampa’s changed their name, right like and then there’s the venerable tigers. The Red Sox were venerable till they weren’t anymore, right. I mean, like and recognizing all of this, the White Sox however, and you’re wearing that White Sox hat that sort of would go I found this on the interweb. Okay, I used to go to Comiskey Park when I was syndicated 20 years ago, and this Aparicio jersey from 69, that they have the 59 Gogo socks, it didn’t have a name on the back and putting the name on the back is a little bit of a bastardization of anything before 1970 Because that’s just not the way it kind of rolled. But they wore this one year and I just obtained this. This is the 69 patch i i paid 58 bucks for this. I thought it was going to come from China in a black box and be trash. Now this is legitimate. This is like put together Cooperstown collection. I looked at this thing for 20 years wanting to get this and when was $400 at the team store, Comiskey Park. I’m like no way at 58 bucks. It’s a little big on me. It looks a lot but I had to have it. Um, the Sox have done shorts, and red and white and black and white and Carlton Fisk and all of that stuff. There are franchises that it feels like they don’t really have a jersey, the Astros the padres, like they can wear whatever they want these NBA teams all feel that way, I think.
Todd Radom 12:44
Yeah, I mean, except for the Celtics and Lakers to some extent, maybe the Knicks, but But you bring up a great point, the White Sox who changed their identities, like you know, you and I change our socks if you pardon the pun. They settled upon a look in 1990. That’s 33 years ago already. And it’s become a classic. I don’t know if you’ve seen it. I think I had mentioned it to you when we were texting. There is a mini documentary out about the the the look of the White Sox, that black and silver and how it aligned with hip hop and popular culture at the time and the White Sox are not a good franchise. When that happened. They started to move Bo Jackson, you know, they had some players and
Nestor Aparicio 13:23
Jack and and yeah, they were Frank Thomas.
Todd Radom 13:26
They started to get good right around then and it fit the uniform. And now they’ve settled upon this long, long era where it’s sort of a classic. But there are younger franchises that have license to change all the time, the Diamondbacks and the raise being the two youngest MLB franchises, they can change uniforms. Every five years, all the rays have looked pretty conservative for a long time now. Whereas as you said, if you’re the Tigers or the Yankees of the Dodgers, the Cardinals, you really can’t do that.
Nestor Aparicio 13:57
And the Marlins were born in those beautiful jerseys with Dutch Dalton with that. And they’re they’ve had 50 different version of pajamas, right?
Todd Radom 14:05
Yeah, yeah. And, of course, when the Marlins and Rockies were born, it was all about teal, silver, black, purple. These were the colors of the moment and they really look fresh and different from from the world of Major League Baseball. And it kind of all stemmed from the Charlotte Hornets, the original Charlotte Hornets of the NBA, who brought in a fashion designer Alexander Julian to design their uniforms in the late 80s. That really changed everything. That was the Teal. Yep, to purple pinstripes really a beautiful look, but not a traditional look.
Nestor Aparicio 14:39
Well, I mean, the NBA was trying to get you know, get get eyeballs. We’re all trying to get eyeballs. Todd randoms. Here he does all things designed targeting like what you really do what you really brag on yourself, give me an elevator speech for you because I know you were sort of this baseball artist and logo expert, but I mean, you’ve come across that through your work.
Todd Radom 14:58
Yep. So you start Write with that. So I have been creating brands for professional sports teams leagues and events. for over 30 years now I’ve designed everything from Super Bowl logos to individual teams whole leagues, I helped commemorate anniversaries just the other day, a couple of new ones launched. But in addition to that, I’m an author. I’ve got two books winning ugly, a loving homage, as I call it to the baseball uniform. And I co wrote with my buddy Chris creamer from sports logos dotnet fabric of the game, which was a history of every NHL teams names in uniform. So yeah, I’m kind of an expert on this. I’ve been doing it a long time I write about these things. I actually do them and I’ve lived this as a profession for over 30 years now.
Nestor Aparicio 15:48
Well, the psychology of it is not lost on me right who collected baseball cards and I collect crazy belt buckles because the culture in town this week, I have my Baltimore Colts belt buckle out. This is from my childhood from Sears 1977. My parents got me this for Christmas. I remember it pretty vividly. Bert Jones all of that. I want you to play Dr. Melfi for me now on the radio and on the podcast Todd. As a young child my father took me in an anniversary. This is coming up this week, literally this week. It’s the 50th anniversary. This week of my first NFL game. My dad took me to Memorial Stadium Marty Dahmer has always appreciated the story more than that Stan white. The jets and Joe Namath. I’m four years old, I’m not even five. I have the program from that day. Stan white sack Joe name is separated a shoulder the Jets beat the Colts 34 to 10 You can look it up. That was a day that the Colts threw eight interceptions. More for Dominus for for Bert Jones. You can look it up. So on that day, my dad took me to the game and he was pissed off because the Colts had dealt Johnny Unitas to the chargers and Johnny’s running around in those pajamas back in 73. Sexy doesn’t look good to him getting killed at Three Rivers Stadium by the Steelers. But but we were all familiar with that. I walked out of the stadium that day. And I’m a four year old child who loved the Orioles even then, like I could have named all the players My name is Aparicio I had already been Memorial Stadium see my cousin play like all of that, but I walked out that day. And I remember this is a four year old and my wife would say I have a Mary Lou and her memory. But I saw the man who sold the pennants in the in the, in the, in the pushcarts from the supermarkets, where they sell pennants and hats and like all that, peanuts, all that stuff outside and I saw a Houston Oiler pennant that day. And my dad was pissed at the call so he didn’t want to buy me a colts when he bought me two pennants that day a San Diego Chargers pennant that’s blue and gold, and a Houston Oiler pennant that we had the new helmet. It wasn’t the blue or the silver helmet. It was a white ailment, but they were just off the blue and the silver, John hadal. And all that good stuff, the early pastor at 7172. And I fell in love with the Houston Oilers that day. So this is 50 years ago this week that this game was played. And I finally I got this on the 38 bucks. I told pastor when he was on sale, he was kind of pissed because he wanted to send me when he pulled one out he’s able to send you this one that passed already on a couple of weeks ago. And 50 years later brother this is a defunct franchise that doesn’t exist right so whether it’s this one or whether it’s another one that I got for 25 bucks online that’s a legitimate 1990 Warren Moon white that fits me as well this one kind of smells a little bit as legit Russell athletic that I’m I still have all of my Houston Oilers stuff. I abandoned the Oilers when the Ravens came to town in 1997. The Oilers abandoned the universe two years later with the St. George and man ending all that becoming Titans. And a It’s unbelievable the power that a brand, a logo, a color a time in your life. It’s it’s psychology, not one on one 100 Like literally that 50 years later, I’m on the internet every day, looking at weird Oilers ish. And thinking like now that the Ravens have abandoned me that it’s cool to throw oil and they’re wearing it this year. And it’s pissing everybody off right? It used to be in Tennessee the whole deal. But it’s fascinating that all this 50 years to the week to have you on that I fell in love with a stupid Derrick 1500 miles away. Nobody had never made any sense to anybody why I love the Oilers. But it was the colors and it was the brand and it was the logo and I still love it. 50 years later,
Todd Radom 19:40
nostalgia. It’s such a powerful emotion and sometimes nostalgia is rooted in the weirdest things in the world. You talk about your love for the Oilers. Now, why was that? It was this moment in time. It was a comment that happened to hit where you were standing at that very moment. And I do think that the Logos and uniforms that we fall in love with that, let’s say age six or eight or 10 are the ones that really stay with us. For some reason I was fascinated when the Toronto Blue Jays and Seattle Mariners joined the American League in 1977 right first new teams in MLB
Nestor Aparicio 20:22
The first one that were to Ukrainian flag right to see
Todd Radom 20:25
Yeah, the mariners a little they kind of stole the Seattle pilots colors right? But those logos, particularly the Blue Jays logo, which was really kind of a rooted in something very modern and very classy. And I still love it to this day. But that was you know, I don’t remember the 1969 expansion. I was five years old at the time but I do remember 77 And seeing those bluejays uniforms really bring something way back for me. Well, that’s your favorite among my favorites, for sure. I think it would be in the top five.
Nestor Aparicio 20:59
I don’t know what has gotten into me to want to spend 3040 bucks on laundry right the Jerry Seinfeld line that I would want to wear this guy wanted 189 online, I got it down to 99 bucks on this once it fits. And it’s like sort of a one of a kind. It’s missing the 11 on the front. My son’s like, there’s a woman in Cleveland that sews them on and you can just mail it to her and she’ll send it back with a car because my kid did this with an Aparicio, jersey. Todd random is here. He does logos and branding and stuff. And you love baseball, and I’m sure there’s a party you want in Philly after getting some World Series games as a wildcard that would speak to whatever the Orioles are, and fans hear that you might want to come down and see a game in a couple of weeks. I saw you down here to Yankees game couple weeks ago. It really is exciting when it happens again, right and it’s happening again for our town right now. And look man, my late last name is Aparicio despite Angelo’s and all the freakiness and the lease and all that watching old folks who barely remember 83 and I’m one of them, but I was there at Veterans Stadium that night. That to win again and what it means for a community which sounds sports can bring a community together.
Todd Radom 22:08
Yeah, I mean, especially in a city of that size. Baltimore is not a gigantic place where something like this is gonna get lost. And as you said, you and I both we are old enough to remember in you being from there and being a being a baseball fan of a certain age, when the Oriole way ruled all when this was a powerhouse franchise. It is great. I love the city of Baltimore. It’s weird and quirky. It’s got John Waters and Babe Ruth and you know all these things coming out of there and to see the Orioles back and do a visited Camden Yards for Sunday Night Baseball with with ESPN crew, in the waning days of July, was just so cool. And I’m rooting for him. And as far as Philly goes, Yeah, I just moved here last November. I’ve been coming down here for one reason or another my entire life. So I can I’m down with the Phillies. I’ve adapted them as my my National League team been to a lot of games this year. And of course, this also a bigger city, but a city where we’re sports rules all every single day. 24/7 365.
Nestor Aparicio 23:09
Who are you a fan of?
Todd Radom 23:11
I’m a Red Sox fan, even though I grew up in New York.
Nestor Aparicio 23:14
All right, well, you know, you want enough my wife’s from New Hampshire. So like, I just feel like maybe it’s our turn. I mean, if with all the awfulness of the Angelo’s era and everything that’s happened here and all the losing and all of that, maybe it’s our time, you know, it’s certainly it feels it’s gonna be fun. I mean, nothing like a playoff run for better or worse Right.
Todd Radom 23:34
And, and that beautiful ballpark Camden Yards, which sparked the web illusion, as you and I and just about everybody listening knows, it has never hosted a World Series game. So to have Baltimore on a national stage. Let’s not get over our skis that far. And let’s get the best
Nestor Aparicio 23:52
World Series game. I haven’t said that out loud, ever. Like
Todd Radom 23:57
it’s astounding, like the you know, one All Star game 1993 30 years ago, my friend. So going deep into October and kind of highlighting all that Baltimore is for the nation. I can’t wait. I hope the Orioles go deep into it. And hey, if it’s a rematch of 83 I’m coming down.
Nestor Aparicio 24:20
Well, if it’s if it’s 93 Geddy Lee sang the national anthem at the All Star game that’s that and free wheeling and Kirby pockets all I remember about that. But 30 years since that 50 years since I fell in love with the Oilers in about five minutes away from another Oriole baseball game. We’re first place cadre and we’ll have to come down here and watch some playoff baseball in a couple of weeks because they don’t have it in Boston right now. They don’t have it in New York right now. They’re gonna have in Baltimore here. It’s always great to visit with you and Yuk it up with you a little bit online about fun logos and old school stuff. And with me sort of having some fun with my childhood and getting back to my youthful roots. I would say this with the Euler And I see behind you, I only see one logo in your frame and that’s the Hartford Whalers there’s nothing quite like it the funk logo right? Like the Expos logo is the sexiest logo ever the Supersonics because we don’t use them anymore like I’ve retired logos all make us sort of warm and fuzzy inside, right? There’s a
Todd Radom 25:19
mystery to these defunct franchises, particularly the ones that haven’t been around for a while. And real quick, that wailers thing that you see behind me is a logo sheet from when that logo was new. It was given to me by Peter good, the man who created the Wailers logo, and he signed it for me he said it was one of two in the world and now I have one and he recently passed away and his his creation lives on eternally even though that franchise hasn’t played there in a quarter century so yeah there there’s something mysterious and wonderful and cool about the whalers the Expos all of these you know teams that no longer with us and I think we’re gonna see the the Oilers colors we’re already starting to see a comeback in a big way. University of Houston the Titans have talked about this. The Euston Texans Just you wait
Nestor Aparicio 26:13
I see that that Harford logo and all I think is dead. So it’s a talky season here sometime soon. By the way, last thing for you on my show and tell would be hockey jerseys. And, you know, the capitals or the capitals, red white and blues of the Scott Stevens era that dentists were nothing better than that. They went with that goofy blue and gold, blue St. Louis Blues eagle that that they that susan o’malley can trash and then they go back and they want to cop with Ovechkin and like do Trotz is back down in Nashville it’s good thing I didn’t give away my Nashville Predators jerseys because I was a predators fan all the years that trots was there. And this is my original I bought this at the White Marsh mall at the sports store in 1998. I believe it or not, they had it. I bought it but then Trotsky made me some of the oh, they had all logos there. Oh, yeah. Right. So he made me a you know, like a goalie Jersey here. You know, hockey’s also you? You mentioned the Hartford Whalers, hockey logos, right? They’re like the old LA Kings with the purple. I mean, just beautiful old things, right, the
Todd Radom 27:24
new mesh on Well, I have the book for you, my friend. All right, here. Hold on. Here we go. fabric of the game. The stories behind the NHL is names, Logos and uniforms, a smorgasbord of every franchise in the history of the National Hockey League, including the Philadelphia Quakers who played one season in 1930, The New York Americans how every one of these teams got their names and logos available wherever books are sold.
Nestor Aparicio 28:00
I remember Rochester Amherst many nights down at the beautiful fabulous Baltimore Civic Center. All right, Todd, I’m gonna let you go check Todd out it’s already D O M he does jerseys and logos and stuff and has interesting points of views and love baseball. So go check them out. Hey, always appreciate you go buy the book makes a perfect holiday gift. I am Nestor we are wn sta a 1570, Towson Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore. Positive fun stuff.
