Crab Cake Row: A Banner conversation about the future of Baltimore sports and journalism

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Sports editor Chris Korman of The Baltimore Banner joins Nestor and Mike Rosenfeld on Crab Cake Row for a no-words-barred debate on the new Orioles ownership, the Ravens’ offseason departures and the state of local journalism at Pappas in Cockeysville for “A Cup Of Soup Or Bowl Week” for the Maryland Food Bank. This one got spicy.


people, orioles, john, years, good, banner, baltimore, baseball, journalist, david rubenstein, built, talking, paywall, put, idea, big, fans, deal, game, journalism


Mike Rosenfeld, Chris Korman, Nestor J. Aparicio

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:02

welcome back we are at Pappas and Cockeysville like a guest lined up like planes at LaGuardia folks or had been waiting Robbie Jr. Patiently waiting with his little Super Bowl 35 helmet thing over there and we got collages and sports and sports and sports. I’m not a sports guy anymore they kind of you know I’m gonna sit here watching Real Sports guys like like Stephen A and Shannon Sharpe and these people, do you consider Lamar season a success? That’s what the talking heads are talking about on ESPN news. We’re talking about a cup of Super Bowl was crabcake row. It’s all thanks to our friends at the Maryland lottery. CHRIS CUOMO from the banners gonna get a free lottery ticket Mike Rosenfeld’s riding shotgun from web connection. Big appreciation our friends at window nation 866 90 nation as well as Jiffy Lube multi care folks coming out all week long bringing the stuff from the Maryland Food Bank, they’re bringing canned goods, dry goods, we’ve been given them the local pantries, we’re here to five today, or maybe 501 But not 502 I’m an hour 3740 hours marathon radio inspired by Jerry Lewis. And at the pleasure of chat steel. We are here and and pimping all sorts of really good stuff. One this guy is not expecting me to kiss his ass on the air on mic, but I’m about to tell Chris Korman of the banner. You guys are kicking ass man. I mean, like stuffs happening. You’re pissing people off enough. You know what I mean? Like, in the way you should be? I don’t know what this a flowers thing was, but I was gonna be a real jerk online and say, Well, if he did punch her in a glass elevator, you know, the team would cover it up and they’d send chat out in front of it. And they, I mean, we know they would do that. But the stories that have been coming out on the baseball side and your side, you guys have been on the front front front end of that. And dare I say and I mean this with a lot of love you as a son alum and me as a son alum, in a way to make Jack Gibbons proud. So good work, brother. Yeah,

Chris Korman  02:03

I hope so. Thank you appreciate it. I mean, our crew works incredibly hard. It’s a really good staff, a lot of sun alums. You know, a lot of that DNA. People were taught the right way. Yeah. And like you

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:15

were taught the right way. Even Philetus guy. Oh, hold it against him.

Chris Korman  02:19

Yeah. Well, Jack worked in jacket and worked in Philly for a while. So he’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:23

a Towson. He’s from Taos, Mr. Maryland guy. microphones here. He’s our chief digital officer doing things on the web. And dude, you got anything to say about the banner? You’ve seen them sprout this from from nothing, right? Like literally two years.

Mike Rosenfeld  02:35

It’s good to have resources and people who are communicating and getting stories out. I love it. Yeah, you know,

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:42

a little bit better. That’s right. You do you do you do. I was gonna say you do newspaper? You don’t? What do you do?

Chris Korman  02:48

What is it? I don’t know. Digital first. We got some podcasts. Yeah, we got video. I

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:55

see Chad, let your guys set up in the stadium. Yeah, after the game. That’s two guys. They’re not you have.

Chris Korman  03:02

They don’t always give us the best room. Sometimes they’re like stuffed in a stuffed in a corner. I mean,

Nestor J. Aparicio  03:09

like, come on, come on, man. You know, like, seriously, you know, you hire me a year ago as your columnist and they denied me a credential like what what what? What would that be? That’s we would have had a lab with that is Bucha. I think we call that an animal house or Bucha Bucha? is what I would say. Yeah. But you guys are killing it. And what is your temperature on all of this as an organization? I mean, you see your clicks, I don’t see your clicks. Yeah, my traffic through the roof. This that Joe Flacco. You know, you get to sit down with Joe Flacco. A lot of people see it, you know, great. It’s cool. But you’re building something that literally was nothing two years ago, I’m building stuff. It’s 30 years in the making, where I bring people with me, you’re trying to start something from scratch and say, We’re new, we’re not a newspaper. Trust us. We’re gonna break stories. They’re all going to be legitimate, and we’re gonna have legitimate Justin Fenton. We’re, we’re gonna take the Pulitzer people over there and bring them over here and continue to do the work. And I And Ted would be so proud of you guys do it. I love that. That’s good to hear. I’m proud. His

Chris Korman  04:13

picture hangs in our newsroom. You know, he’s a big influence on what we’re doing. You know, it’s grown a ton. We we started last year by covering spring training. We sent Andy Casca. We had one Orioles reporter sent I never met him Baldwin. Yeah, he’s great. He’s fantastic. It’s great work. Yeah. And you know, those stories, were getting 200 300 page views. You know, just people were trying to figure out who we were. And by he broke the news that Grayson Rodriguez was not going to make the team out of camp that probably got 1500 page views. Now our average stories up to that, you know, maybe even maybe more than that. And then last week, you know, it helps that the Ravens lose unexpectedly right and we have all that coverage. The Orioles get sold. The Royals trade for an ace. But

Nestor J. Aparicio  04:59

what happens biggest month of traffic. Yeah, I’ve had a long, long time playing the AFC Championship game at home, right? We didn’t need to be sold. But you know, like, I’m trying to. I haven’t got my arms around it. I don’t we haven’t talked about it. He was the one that told me he texts me. Like, I was getting ready for yoga, like, o’clock at night, I was packing my bag hydrating, you know, I don’t do ohms or whatever. Before I do that I’ll get ready for yoga and he pings me he’s like, or is this guy soldier run. And within four minutes, I had to confirm from my deep throat I have. Well, this is just real, real, real real. And I’m like, okay, reporting it. But I’m finding out it’s real. But I’m more into it. I went into my wife secure not going to yoga. Now I’m like, oh, yeah, I am. And watch me turn my phone off. So 715 I walked into class, I walked in a third at 41 messages, and an hour and 15 minutes. And I came home that night. And I was so like, Mr. Pig, talk to me talk to me. I was on the phone. 11 o’clock at night. I’m not writing that. I’m just sort of. And Luke and I were doing 7am radio. I text Luke and like, I guess we’re doing 530 tomorrow. So we went at it early in the morning. And I told him everything I knew at that time. But I said this is evolving man like this is this isn’t going to happen in a minute. And I’ve been told by everybody. There’s still a lot of snags in any one point a billion dollar deal, right? Sure. But there’s a there’s that hope. And for fans and the Corbin burns thing, obviously another thing I learned from you guys, I would just say I went to bed on the second night thinking for the first time in a long time that I could go down there and have people be nice to me. I mean, I’m just being honest. I don’t remember the last time I ever walked in there where I wasn’t treated like my water fountain was over there. Including in Arlington, Texas 12 weeks ago. Yeah. Where they had me at the kids table. Like I’ve been treated like garbage for so long. I wouldn’t know what it’s like to walk in there and just not have people look at me. Like they want to kill me. You know, but that’s part of being a journalist. Right? I mean, yeah, I mean, he’s proud of me for that. Yeah, you

Chris Korman  07:11

gotta rub people the wrong way. Right? Like you’re you’re not doing the job unless people are angry at you. If you’re if you’re saying what they want you to say then. That’s not that’s not that’s not journalism. Yeah, that’s not the gig. But this group, I mean, look, the Orioles are a mess from top to bottom. Right. Like, the organization is there are so many things wrong with it. And that’s what you want. 101

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:33

game to deodorizer some of that, that hides it hides it. And that’s

Chris Korman  07:37

the part John let that part go right. John, let Mike Elias do his thing. And Michael is built eighth power. They 101 games, and they have the best farm system in baseball, you

Mike Rosenfeld  07:48

know, even after the trade, right?

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:51

But from John’s perspective, it didn’t cost him money. Right? Well, that’s nobody had nobody.

Chris Korman  07:57

That’s the test now is like are they going to so they traded for Corbin burns? That’s great. That’s a that’s they gave up some prospects. And it’s $16 million, which is nothing right? It’s 6 million more than they paid. Kyle Gibson last year. It’s like that’s nothing in Major League Baseball terms. The question was, are they gonna sign anybody? Are they gonna? We were just talking are they gonna keep Adley rutschman? Are they gonna I mean, Gunnar Henderson’s hard, right? This is Scott Boras client, he’s a future probably MVP. He’s gonna cost a lot of money, but you like Adley rutschman. The fact that deals should get done the day that David Rubenstein can write the day that he’s in possession and can make those decisions. And he’s got to show these fans. I mean, that’s what fans are waiting for. Right? Is that they they have done this one, they’ve sort of done one thing, right? Right, they built the squad, but you it has to go beyond that. You have to buy some pitching, you have to build a buy. If somebody goes down or you know, if you need one position, you got to spend money, like they’re never gonna win being 20 Nice. In payroll, they’re never gonna win being 20th in payroll, you gotta get to like 1510 You know, you got to be in

Nestor J. Aparicio  09:04

it which stand up right now TV they always win this year, you know, they could have won and

Chris Korman  09:10

then they got to Texas, I mean, everyone remembers what happened right? Like, you know, in the playoffs the margins are so small that you have to have you have to have the pitching and you have to have the hitting and they you know, it did not come through last year. This team will be much better right like and grace and rocky Rodriguez will advance Adly and got her won’t be you know,

Nestor J. Aparicio  09:32

crap that John would pull to not bring holiday up until June or something just do not get his clock going and all of that that poverty franchise nonsense that they played and talk themselves into before my very eyes

Chris Korman  09:47

and the distraction of that right like John goes to the New York Times and says we’re gonna have to raise prices and the prices are already pretty high. Like Camden yard food prices are already skyrocketing, right like they he is already charging people more than similar markets and he’s not spending it on players. And those distractions, you know, like, think about Steve Ashati right like nobody sees or hears from Steve Bushati He just tries to put together an organization that wins. I mean, our expectation is David Rubenstein will take the same tact you know that he you

Nestor J. Aparicio  10:20

David Rubenstein have an annual you you expect him on a date once a year? What What, what, come on now years maybe maybe, maybe wasted the city what what is your expectation for because you just said shoddy hides and that’s good. It’s not good. It is to $600 million. He’s banding journalist. I’m here calling around to the league telling the guy who’s done the Super Bowl 29 times and he can’t go while I’m watching charity sit with tables on radio row. Like I it’s insane to me, right. Okay, but what? I’m mature Bashaud he didn’t like me, whatever it is, he should be in front of you, not me. And he should be in front of you in front of other people than Jamison. Hensley and Jeff’s Rebeck, who worked for ESPN is about to be usurped. And the athletic, which is the New York Times you’re a Baltimore entity, I’m aboard. I don’t I’m not even pissed that you got two guys in in the press box after games with cameras doing stuff when they made me. I hate to do my show. I hate you know where I did. Chad, you know, right? Did my show every week in your coach’s box on the road? Because it was empty. The coaches are they have all the cords in there, you see him drinking the coffee, you know, I would go in that box in Pittsburgh, Cleveland since I’ve been in a box and every week doing what you guys did with my back to the wall and a camera. Because that’s, and then I got accused of not working. So I want to ask the owner about that. Right. And I can’t I want to ask the owner whether the $600 million in the perimeter, but I can I want to ask the owner where you were as a flowers. But I can’t you know, like, that’s, that’s not the accountability that was promised when he bought the team. He’s lowered his own bar. We’ve lowered our own expectation here over all of it. And that’s not good for the fans. Yeah. Either way. And if you piss them off, they’re gonna throw you out of there. Because they hey, I can have your chat. I let you I let you broadcast. Yeah, really? So what do I owe you? Dude, what do I owe you? Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Korman  12:25

I mean, the thing Steve has hired Sashi. Right. And so I couldn’t get to him. Yes. Okay. We can get Sashi fairly regularly. But you know, I don’t press conferences. He’s done. He did when they when they announced the the changes to the stadium when they announced the renovations. He’s there. And he’s, he’s talking about those things. You know, and that has always been what people talked about John needing to do, right, like John Angelos is not by his own admission, he’s not a businessman. He’s not a developer. You know, he’s he was trained as a lawyer didn’t go into law. Just sort of you

Nestor J. Aparicio  12:58

know what, sit through if told me one time I asked it about him. It’s just sits been dead a long time. Since I said, nasty at Bose an introvert? He’s introverts. That’s interesting. Pretty good sit too, but yeah, yeah. But he he called him an introvert. Yeah, two years ago. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Chris Korman  13:15

I mean, if anybody understands John Angelo’s I would be shocked. I don’t think there’s anyone I mean, I haven’t

Nestor J. Aparicio  13:23

met that person. Yeah. I haven’t met anybody that calls him a friend. I haven’t met anybody that he wants to kill him. I’ve I’ve never had anybody who’s a very

Chris Korman  13:31

good wrestler at Gilman. Yes. Like at all state wrestler. Yeah, he was like a very

Nestor J. Aparicio  13:39

good. Just in time from the leave. I’m finding out all the news, you know, so. So.

Chris Korman  13:45

But yeah, I don’t you know, I’m not sure that he I’ve

Nestor J. Aparicio  13:48

never spoken. I spoke to John Angeles one time in my life. I had to hijack the visit Baltimore tourism, the guy from visit Baltimore still hasn’t spoken to me. Christine Brennan, Christine Brennan was fun for you. Christine Brennan, my former colleague was moderating. Protect Cass and John Angelo’s on a days at a visit Baltimore event. It’s very famous event like really, for what I did became famous, not because I did it, because I’m not associated, but I’m the one who did it. I hijack the event. I text Christine in the morning and I’m like, Look, I’m going to be asking him about the future of the franchise. He has made himself available forever. Daddy’s taking a nap. He’s the guy he wants to come out at the Civic thing and curry favor. He needs some questions. So you’re going to you as a journalist, you’re there to sanitize this, your your the Johnny Bravo that makes this look legitimate. So if you want it to be legitimate, there’s a lot of whispers here. He didn’t have a lease. DIX about this is five years four years ago, right. And I am the one that asked him the question, what’s the future the team and that’s when he gave the Baltimore Orioles will be here as long as the rockets red glare and whatever Help Francis Scott Key thing he quoted, right? As long as the movie is it seems like his father, which is like I’m like, Oh, that’s not a good answer. But he and I got booed. And I got the, at this thing, and the funniest thing happens, like, so I get that. And I get the bristle and tick gives me the smirk, right? I’ll throw your ass out of here one day, that kind of smirk. And Christine knew it was common because she’s a journalist. And I’ve known Christine since I met her to CAPS game in 1986 when she was working for George Salomon, right? Then the first fan that gets a question I’m, I’m not being fussy is exactly what happened. A woman on the other side, 50 year old African American woman stands up and she says, John, I got one question. What’s wrong with my Oreos? That’s what she said, was wrong memorials. And that was a fair question. Everybody laughed, and they’re like, Oh, he’s like, Well, you know, we’ve got this young Adley rutschman. And we have that we’re gonna be good and a couple of years. And I thought Bucha he was right. He didn’t lie about that, you know, so that and we didn’t get one

Chris Korman  16:06

thing, right. He I mean,

Mike Rosenfeld  16:08

the baseball team is very good. His strategy would have been we’re going to be good one day, and then we’re going to be bad, because we’re not going to pay. They’re not Yeah, just keep them and in a vicious cycle.

Chris Korman  16:17

We’ll trade them for more pics. Right. Why

Nestor J. Aparicio  16:20

do you want to resign? I guess the big journalism part is that because I don’t know him. I know a lot of people that know him. He’s very public dude. Yeah, me just really out there public dude.

Chris Korman  16:30

I yeah, I mean, he. He buys things like the Magna Carta to allow for the public to see. I mean, he is like a patriot. Right? He really cares about that. And I think baseball for him is sort of of that vein, right that baseball is America’s pastime. And he is now you know, but but this people said the same thing about Peter when he bought the team, right? Peter was a hero, you know, this is anybody. He was a hero to buy the team and be a Baltimore guy and put up the money. So I would suggest some caution. You know, for people that that you never know how an owner is going to go, what’s actually going to happen, but Well,

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:14

what do we expect from this guy? Other than a bunch of money and Adley rutschman and Gunnar Henderson and leave it alone or whatever.

Chris Korman  17:20

I would expect him to have plans right? Like John Angelo’s got 600 Think about the Ravens got the $600 million in the state and just immediately spent 400 million of it knew what they wanted to do. And now it’s being built like they are they are starting on it. They have the plans. John has John never got anywhere on any of that. Right John also demanded the development rights he asked for 300 million extra dollars on top of the 600 million but never no one has ever seen even the inkling of a plan there’s there’s not Shawn

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:50

to Malaga stadium authority be disbanded and the governor agreed

Chris Korman  17:54

to it right? There’s no back of there’s no back of like even just at the at the lunch table like let me draw you what I want to do. There’s none of that.

Nestor J. Aparicio  18:04

School we’re gonna put a school school or

Chris Korman  18:06

medical right like like you do you need a medical facility right near that one of the top shock trauma centers in the world. Like they probably

Mike Rosenfeld  18:14

need during game days. You see helicopters


flying and build a hotel,

Chris Korman  18:20

we would have one of those failing hotel right across the street.

Nestor J. Aparicio  18:23

This is where I would challenge you as a journalist and for what you’re doing. I keep asking this question. Money, money, money, money. First place, first place football base. What’s the idea? There you have a beautiful stadium they have to I got I got urinated upon two days ago, because within so many minutes, we have the two greatest stadiums. I’m like, It’s not that great. And why aren’t people going? You got the best quarterback, you’ve got a team that’s in first place tickets with 10 bucks a couple of weeks ago, tickets for the playoff game were under $100 Because it was a little cold. They don’t have those problems in Green Bay or Kansas City or buffalo or anywhere else, right? Who’s gonna buy all the sky boxes, they’re gonna downsize the baseball stadium, right, the first thing you’re gonna do is cut 8000 seats out of it, what’s going to make people go other than we’re in first place because we’re already in first place, and they weren’t going and it’s crime and this pricing and while the prices are gonna go up inside the perimeter where the hotdogs are warmer and the beers colder, we heard all of that. What’s the idea? And that that’s where a guy like Rubenstein to me. The city planning and the stuff that we talked about Baltimore, same thing that applies to the Inner Harbor. What’s the idea? Because water and appear is what you got. Now what are you gonna put on it? Schafer said we’re going to put an aquarium and a science center and a mall and Okay, open public space. We had a baseball team and a stadium and a football team and a stadium and we’re gonna build a bar we’re gonna make it better and we’re going to charge more to be glad we’re gonna bring bands in. Amen. We’ve been redoing hemorrhage actually. Give me an idea. What’s the idea? Give me a Gateway Arch. Give me cable cars. Give me an AW I get I don’t I’m making that up. But give me something that brings people there because moving the lefty a wall brings baseball fans down and that’s cool, but I don’t know that baseball is ever going to be nondenominational and everybody’s gonna love it the way they did when we were kids, you know, I don’t think that’s what they’re gonna sell. I don’t think that is the big idea. Yeah.

Chris Korman  20:20

I don’t think there is a big idea yet. Yeah, John most certainly did not have one right. Like he his idea was work work live play, like Camden Yards what it was built was allotted because it was already live work play. It was like, Oh, this is in the city and there’s an apartment and there’s and there’s bars and like, we have live work play. That’s so cool. And now 30 years later, he’s like we should do live work play. No, Anton. It already exists. You just want to own the live work play. So now that that’s all gone, right John had no other money right that Joshy have a column John John had not you know, he had no other revenue source. Right. And that was always the problem. And so his entire thought was I need to find revenue for my salary. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:02

everybody everybody else doing he wrote Chicago Boston, where they owned the the perimeter got like this and it was gifted right then we some of it was but like,

Chris Korman  21:11

but like he took less more to the battery Atlanta, right. 80 acres of development. Do you know who bought that land? The Atlanta Braves then well, Braves didn’t ask for it. They just they went and spent the money to buy the acreage like, and then they built the buildings. But he just never wanted to do that he wanted he wanted to hold the leverage of the lease over this the city and the state and everybody here, and the fans most of all, to get his money. And that was the biggest so now David Rubenstein doesn’t need that, right? He’s got his own. That’s

Mike Rosenfeld  21:46

the point. He’s not it’s this isn’t his livelihood. This isn’t his business. This is his toy. Right? And it’s like his

Chris Korman  21:53

legacy and somebody that gets his. He’s been asked to do things in Baltimore before and never done them. He’s really like a Bethesda guy. Right? Like, I think the Wall Street Journal is like, Oh, he’s a Baltimore is lifelong bulletin. No, he might move

Nestor J. Aparicio  22:03

the team to DT. Oh, they happen. I was the last dc. I lived through that for 15 years. Right. And when I talked to labor, the keynote about real heroes involved with the Orioles. Edward Bennett. Williams, at any point, could have pulled out his very, very large self and said, Yeah, Baltimore will never be with DC is what Ted just did. Right? Well put the team right the district Right, right. What a What a creep. You know, I mean, just want to creep the dude, I’m not even wizards fan on all 10 of the wizards fans got screwed over, you know, as I see it, but for me this the live work play. And I was old enough to remember this because I was one of those guys that wanted to live in harbor court for 20 years were Brady Anderson lived and all that right. And I did and I lost a quarter million dollars doing it, because it wasn’t cool anymore, because the neighbor wasn’t going anymore. But the whole idea was if you lived in harbor court, Camden Yards when it came was going to be a 365 place. You were going to take your wife there and have your romantic dinner on Valentine’s night up in the clamp camping club plate pay too much for steak and a lousy crab cake and a bottle of Cabernet not as good as the prisoner. And the boots BBQ was supposed to be a 360 fun, like Saturday and Sunday with the ideas that Janet Marie Smith had. And that that Larry had because Larry was Eli was broke. And then Peter lied to him and said, You’re the guy, you’re the guy and throw them out, right, you know, kneecap them right away. All of that went away, and then the strike happened and all of that one way and then Peter owns the place and thinks he’s God right away. So everything about the live work, play and that area, everything the warehouse could have been dude, I did something unwittingly because of the Orioles playing in Arlington, Luke and I went down and the kids all that during the day that you cowboys, PR guys, a buddy of mine, right? gave us the tour of the star. Sure. And the star like the they have a warehouse. Jerry built it Gera, he built it. It’s rented at a high ticket. And like the guy told me they signed deals and they can’t put a camera out the window. It’s been any employee put the camera out the window, they’re fired. They have all sorts of radar thing, whatever. But I saw that and I’m like, they couldn’t even get Camden Yards. They have a warehouse warehouse. Restaurants they have boots BBQ they had the field to get if your kids could come down there on Saturday run around the field and get a boobs in November and 1995 he would do it. You know what I mean? Like it was a thing. Meanwhile, the minute Angelo’s bought the thing he looked at every single thing as the enemy like pickles pub must have made him sick. Just to see they’re drinking my beer. Oh my my my my my pregame and this guy’s making a fortune selling five hour beers across the street. And John Kent could never handle that. You know, it’s a possession. I think more than anything else, he wanted to possess stuff he didn’t even know how to use including the team right 100%

Chris Korman  25:04


I mean, that’s that’s the story of John is that he never really developed the expertise. I mean, he ran Masson Masson is not good. Like Masson is Matson is a horrible, I can’t tell you how many times I was like watching games and I’m working and then I look up and Masson has turned into like a guy sitting on a bench talking about fishing. Like how do you not have four former Orioles sitting there saying like, Man that Adley rutschman? How do you the best cetera?

Nestor J. Aparicio  25:36

Et without putting your spring training? If you have a network for baseball, and you don’t put your spring training games on?

Mike Rosenfeld  25:41

It’s cheap, right? That’s the bottom line?

Chris Korman  25:43

Yes, let’s say saving money.

Mike Rosenfeld  25:44

So if I may, let you make let’s let’s talk about the half full possibilities. What is What are the next steps to formalize the transfer the team? The baseball meetings is the next step that hasn’t happened yet. Yeah, I

Chris Korman  25:59

mean, they’re talking this week. I mean, what they have to get approved? Yeah, what we know. I mean, I don’t think I’m sharing anything that you couldn’t just discern by looking at how this has gone. Like MLB doesn’t want John in MLB. Once MLB wants the guy who has $4 billion, right, not the guy whose thoughts are not Yeah, the guy who’s trying to to, you know, extract things out of his city. They very clearly, I don’t think there will be any problems getting David Rubenstein have approved. You know, I think that there will be some things and the massive deal is huge, right? This is an unprecedented deal. The fact that the Orioles own the Nationals TV rights, has prevented the nationals from being sold for years now. I mean, it’s a huge problem. But it’s what Peter extracted, and Peter very pointedly extracted it for the Orioles. He didn’t say, you know, he could have taken money. He could have said well you give me Peter angelos, 500 million, you know, whatever the money was, I don’t know. And he could have taken that money. But he said no, I want this for the Orioles. Like he very clearly said that this needs to be thing tied in perpetuity to the Orioles. And so that’s an open question.

Nestor J. Aparicio  27:14

That is the only way we’re going to be able to compete the American League each dress. That’s correct. You know that that’s

Chris Korman  27:19

a that’s a perfect impersonation. And so now they need to determine what’s going to happen there. Does I mean Rubenstein is very close with a guy who owns a different TV network in DC. And who everyone knows needs baseball, like his network,

Nestor J. Aparicio  27:37

need the former NBC Sports thing, whatever that

Chris Korman  27:41

is monumental. Like it is very clear that Woods

Nestor J. Aparicio  27:44

head moving to Virginia feels really desperate to me. It feels filthy, it feels dirty. It feels like something that there there are gonna be some people that don’t forgive him for this

Mike Rosenfeld  27:54

isn’t an official or is it a posturing? thing? Is that thing absolutely happening?

Chris Korman  27:59

I don’t think it’s been fully approved. But it’s pretty far down the line. But I mean, this is what sports owners do. Like they, you know, they use these public good. I mean, these are public, like the Orioles are mean as much to Baltimore as anything else. Right. Like, as much as crabcakes. As

Nestor J. Aparicio  28:16

we sit here on the edge of I’m sitting here watching Shannon Sharpe on a 50 degree day in Las Vegas at the Super Bowl and thinking they have a franchise they have, you know, I mean, it’s all out there. Now I’m saying Kroc, he’s already had a Super Bowl and got another one in LA, he screwed his state, right? Missourian move the team, you know, so for that I’m, I never believed yours relieving, right? I mean, like that. I thought the barrier to that I think John would have liked to have suck them up and move them to Nashville, and still been John and

Chris Korman  28:49

I got a house there. And his wife’s got a business. I think if he could have

Nestor J. Aparicio  28:53

figured that out, right? He would have but that would have taken some competence that he didn’t have to flip a franchise or say, hey, I’ll get out of the way. Give me the Nashville expansion team. And I’ll bring you know Tim McGraw and Garth Brooks in or you know, whatever his silly dream was right. But I never thought the Orioles were leaving camp. I never thought anybody would allow that. But I also didn’t think he would ever sign a lease. I mean, I thought he was gonna be like the old man. I’m just gonna fight, fight, fight, fight, fight. And that’s why when you text me and he they break the story two weeks ago, Baltimore banner breaks it or you’re texting me. That’s at that moment. I’m like, he quit. Like that blew, his old man never would have quit. That’s because he’d be dead like Bernie and still fighting and saying, I’m not signing that. Because that’s the question.

Chris Korman  29:38

Did he not like, I mean, he signed it. But he didn’t show up at the press conference. He essentially went dark, right? So they had a deal where he was gonna get 99 years of development rights for $93 million. That’s an insane deal when you take into account inflation. And considering that the the MSA was already making, what $3 million a year from rent from the warehouse, and he’s gonna get the warehouse and more land for less than a million dollars a year. That’s that is a the incredible sweetheart deal. Bill Ferguson kills

Nestor J. Aparicio  30:07

it Roy every part of the oversight to smell. Yeah. Well, that was the key part. The key part was it. Right. And

Chris Korman  30:16

so that Bill Ferguson kills that and John basically exited at that point. I think that John has been shopping the team and gouging prices and seeing who wants it for years. And he’s been talking to Rubenstein for six years, at least maybe maybe seven. Talk to many other people got their prices, there were people who wanted to pay more than what the what the 1.7 5 million or 1.72 5 million billion that it ended up going by. He was all but I don’t think he ever wanted to sell because he thought he would get this deal from Westmore. As soon as he did not get the deal, whatever that was December 8. I mean, John basically vacated he was done, he was out. And nobody’s really seen or heard from the people closest to John. When the sale happened, we heard about noon that day that the sale was probably happening. And we called everyone who should have known and none of them knew. We were telling them like, hey, this sale is probably happening. They’re like, well, we don’t know, like, and John just got it done. You know, there’s there was a meeting with his family that has been publicized that he you know, at a farm up, not far from here, Marathon farm where the family keeps their compound. And he just sort of decided to get out. He just had enough. moved on. And I really think it was because he did not get the bigger deal that he wanted.

Nestor J. Aparicio  31:40

Well could come at a better time, just in a general sense for what the what the franchise needs done, what major league baseball needs done, what the city needs done, and I’ll pay you the highest compliment is when you’re breaking a story like that now, and you’re calling Michael eyes and saying, Hey, Andy is calling like, Hey, do you know this? I don’t know. They’re not saying well, you might You’re making that up, right? You couldn’t be making that.

Chris Korman  32:05

They’re like, that sounds about right. Flowers

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:07

thing. What was that? I mean? Like I woke up to that kind of sort of and I have no reaction to it because it’s a legal thing. And I don’t want to play checks the on the radio, but I have nothing to say on until I really understand what it’s about. Because I know allegations in sure he knows some girl calls cups is something that maybe it’s a maybe I’ll show you some evidence, but certainly from your perspective, it becomes the biggest story for a little while until we figure it out. Right? Yeah, I

Chris Korman  32:31

mean, it’s an investigation and I think what was odd about it was that it was reported to Baltimore County and then she also reported it in Massachusetts. And that’s sort of how it came on our radar is that it was being looked at by multiple jurisdictions. We have no idea what you know, there’s no there’s no paper trail at this point that we can have access to just because of where it because it’s your investigation. So we don’t know what happened. I mean, certainly the ravens are probably going to be more careful about this than I think any other franchise in the NFL with with good reason.

Nestor J. Aparicio  33:12

I think that we saw it won’t stop them from lying. Well, it’s the journalists you

Chris Korman  33:16

know that yes, I mean, that is that is always spirit you brought up earlier the Ray Rice thing you know, like they they finally welcomed Ray back. But I mean, I think what a lot of people forget is that they knew full well what had happened with Ray and they wanted to give them to games. You know, they they knew and it wasn’t

Nestor J. Aparicio  33:35

always admitted we know we know what he did

Chris Korman  33:37

right? And and they wanted to say it’s gonna be two games and then it be the video became public. But that’s the game you know, like Greg Hardy has done Greg Hardy did awful things, but it wasn’t on video.

Nestor J. Aparicio  33:52

And so we got to come back to him so to allegedly did so.

Chris Korman  33:56

Yeah, I mean, MO You know this, you talked to ravens people and they that, you know, there are guys that were much worse people and we’re known that they football is a very violent game. It is a game that includes a lot of head trauma. It is a high pressure sport that leads to many players having mental illness and dealing with things that they find hard to deal with. This is well known in football circles, right that the these players are dealing with these things. They know who the dangers are and which players I mean they employ entire staffs that think about this.

Nestor J. Aparicio  34:32

Phil savage said the art modell the night before the first draft. If you draft Lawrence Phillips, you’re never going to have a good night asleep. Yeah, that’s what that’s what Phil savage said the Art and Art said let’s not draft him. And I remember Let’s draft the Hall of Fame right at UCLA. And

Mike Rosenfeld  34:48

I remember being pissed that they didn’t take the running back. Well, I know. That’s why That’s why I’m a web guy. Chris

Nestor J. Aparicio  34:55

board was here with vulnerable banner Microsoft fell to you I feel like I’m with friends. I feel like I need a beer. Anything you want to wrap it around, we’re gonna get you back to your office Friday afternoon. I got other guests. Robbie’s coming. Here I’m like, I’m like sports sports sport. Oh, charity we’re doing. But I am tickled that we got knocked out of the Super Bowl, we have this other thing to talk about because I’ve been doing this for 32 years. And I’ll be honest, I mean, Luke’s done 15 radio rows with me over the years and all the back when I had more employees and all that stuff. I remember being on radio row 12 hours a day, and never having any reason ever, ever ever to talk about baseball’s that you’re like, during during the big game week. And instead, I haven’t had to talk about Kansas City and San Francisco and Taylor Swift. Although love you take. I’ll see you at Hollywood casino on Sunday night on my television. But baseball is on the tongue all week long received Ron Kasi, those guys all came out Luke on Wednesday. And it’s more like, yes, a flowers may have but but but we’re going to talk about the new owner, the new owner. And they’re going to play a lot of games before the Ravens do anything really. I mean, and the Ravens are going to be playing free age or they’re going to draft 30. And how can that be? You know, whatever. They’re pretty sad. I mean, Billy would always tell me, I’m not gonna let some guy come back at a U haul. Take all my coaches out the back door here. Don’t say that. That’s exactly what happened to John. And it feels like he feels okay with it. Right. But things are going to be kind of quiet unless say flowers really punched his girlfriend or did something awful for the next couple of months. And it’s going to be this sort of Sarah’s people have asked me Are you going to Sarasota? I’m like, well, he gets a press pass. And I don’t so I don’t know. I don’t really need the sunshine all that much. But there is a reason to be in Sarasota here. And there is baseball is gonna be on the tongue a week from now in a way that the ravens are going to be Dare I say below the fold?

Chris Korman  36:48

Yeah. I mean, I was talking to Robbie about this. So I, Scott over here is the Commissioner of the CRC baseball. Boys.

Nestor J. Aparicio  36:56

Yeah, they came like they were your routing? Yeah.

Chris Korman  36:58

So they’re not here for me,

Nestor J. Aparicio  37:01

you know,

Chris Korman  37:02

for you in part. But so we run the training kind of, you know, we run the Cockeysville baseball Little League, which, you know, this three years ago, this is the program small, you know, it’s it’s a shockingly small number of kids that want to come out and play baseball. We try to make it very accessible. That’s our whole goal.

Nestor J. Aparicio  37:20

You have a house? Oh, yeah.

Chris Korman  37:24

All right. But although you know, our team, we have the YUTAN or whatever. We had one team in all of Cockeysville. I mean, this is you know, we play each other Yeah. Other COC other tools. But

Nestor J. Aparicio  37:37

it’s a small league. They all play lacrosse, I guess. I think so. Yeah. But they’re

Chris Korman  37:41

but they’re starting to pick up on the Orioles three years ago, they couldn’t have named a single Oriole. They the kids would have just been like I don’t know colts

Nestor J. Aparicio  37:47

daughters don’t know baseball because they just have never been injured. But now they’re starting to.

Chris Korman  37:52

They’re starting to notice. I mean, how could you not?

Mike Rosenfeld  37:54

I have I have young adult children. Yeah, they through my biggest. One of my biggest regrets is through elementary school, middle school in high school. There was no work it was there was no baseball, right, which was our law growing up. I mean, it was I, I mean, I was probably more loyal fan than a cold fan. Growing up, there was no interest to them. Once they went away to college, I see things percolating. Right. And my son Sam, he’s the one who broke the news to me when I’ve texted you about the sale. He’s like, he texts me yesterday. He’s like, can we go to Sarasota subscribers? He’s like, he’s like, can we go to Sarasota that never would have happened? So for that, I’m grateful. Even though the team hasn’t been sold yet, but it’s just through the way things are and and, and those play

Chris Korman  38:43

on last piece too, right? Like the players are there it’s it was always the question of like, what is the ownership gonna back it up and now there’s reasonably they will and

Mike Rosenfeld  38:51

even I mean, one went to Michigan and saw a national championship basketball team, the other ones Indiana, but both of them their best memory sports memory, including Super Bowls. was dumb, dumb and young stubble. Yeah. And being there and feeling that and feeling the energy of playoffs.

Nestor J. Aparicio  39:08

Reminds me of it reminds me of the morning after Christmas. When Luke came on five and more. We’re doing morning radio on December 26. He’s like, You better hope that’s not the highlight of your season. You don’t I mean, if Dale Dolman Young’s the highlight of your life as an Oriole fan, you haven’t had a very good life. I mean, no offense to anybody that thinks doubling the division. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like, that’s like being a San Diego charger fan or something. That’s their highlight that point that my point was the highlight of the Ravens season was beating San Francisco when a consolation prize. I mean, that was the highlight of their year. And that’s not a good year. So I hope your kids have a highlight. That includes David Rubenstein holding the trophy next to Cal Ripken and, and me being there, like a report of a little banner hat on Richie Cunningham and write stuff that I thought a lot of charity and community stuff here and I’ve done some sports and whatnot. I don’t want to call Are you community effort but your nonprofit and you’re different than times mirror was for me you’re as able when I was an employee 40 years ago. You’re the next generation everything I ever wanted to be your you know, and you’re in your Kyle was all I ever wanted to do was be a columnist and cover my teams and be there for the big game. You know what I mean? And you guys have bootstrap this thing together, and you’re trying to make it go, and I don’t how’s it going? I don’t know how what’s going? Yeah, no,

Chris Korman  40:27

I mean, look, we have the most tremendous startup fund in the history of nonprofit journalism. I didn’t know that to be true. I mean, $50 million, is a lot of money. But we are also going up against the sun, which has 200 years of a headstart. It obviously has a new owner that has a ton of money. Nobody knows what he will do with that money and how he will use this

Nestor J. Aparicio  40:52

interesting philosophy of reporting nothing. That’s true. Yeah. Really an interesting concept for a newspaper. Yeah. So

Chris Korman  40:58

we, you know, certainly, but yeah, the building process has been, you know, it’s, the money only goes so far right? We are well funded, we were able to hire incredibly talented people. But how many

Nestor J. Aparicio  41:12

how are your staff now? Plug your staff talking about 10?

Chris Korman  41:15

I think I’ve 10 And I’m about to post a job. General Simon,

Nestor J. Aparicio  41:19

I’m gonna need one after this. Let me know.

Chris Korman  41:23

So yeah, it’s it’s a tremendous staff. I mean, just do incredible work. But yeah, building something new. I mean, most people don’t know what the banner is. I mean, really? Yeah. It’s, we still are, you know, we go to market and we check and it’s like, 35% of people in the Baltimore region know what the Baltimore banner is. So we need to raise that so that we can get more subscribers. You know, the whole

Nestor J. Aparicio  41:44

thing of the paywall is is really, I mean, I own a company I understand that I got, I believe me, I mean, I hustle for all of this. Right, right, I get it. But the paywall thing is still something that like, I’m not prudish about it. But I never put $1 and I see headlines and I click and go to this site or newspaper sites. And I’m like, Alright, man, I don’t you’re not getting me right now. You’re not getting me ever. I told you my son story, right? Yeah, I did. I tried to cancel the sun, they put me on hold for an hour and a half in the Philippines, and then the guy gets on a sale. So doing that to a lot of people like and running me sideways to get rid of my credit card. Like, that’s why I don’t want to give you my credit. Like literally, it’s moved me from giving anybody anything. And but the paywall part of that is I don’t, I don’t know that’s ever going to, like, be palatable to me. And I’m the first guy that wants the information bad enough, and would give a buck or two if I had a level of trust in some way. Not that I don’t trust you or the banner, but but there are people hitting that wall every minute of every day. I’ve hit your wall, and and like, say, all right, how deep Am I gonna go and where am I going to go? And then what’s the next thing and that’s one thing for my company, a plug for my companies? I mean, I considered all that stuff 15 years ago, right when the sun went the paywall, like that’s where it’s going and what people really paid and listen to my morning show. No, they wouldn’t. I wouldn’t pay to read me. I mean, I mean, I think I’m good and great and like, but I if I hit a paywall with me, I’d be pissed at me. So I don’t I don’t know that’s not a banner problem. That’s a that’s an issue. Right? And then all the crap they’re doing the journalist right, whether it’s hiring Roch kubatko And because he’s a journalist, and turning him into not a journalist, or Jim Trotter, or Mike silver on the NFL side, my friends, or throwing people like me out and having people like you not even be able to ask them because you’re afraid to get thrown out. So like, I don’t know where the future is. But the paywall thing is daunting. And I it for for our society. I mean, literally, I think it’s a American freedom information kind of thing were like, all the really important stuffs, but the good stuffs behind the wall, right? And we got Trump getting in so many states. Sure.

Mike Rosenfeld  44:02

Yeah. Can I piggyback on what you said, because we’ve been talking for working together for years. And

Nestor J. Aparicio  44:07

he’s a digital guy does, yeah. And I

Mike Rosenfeld  44:11

explained that I started my firm in 1995, with big eyes and like, Oh, I remember saying, before I started my business, if this internet thing is real, I went in like as an entrepreneur, and thinking all the good stuff. And then shortly thereafter, came some of the bad stuff. And then now and as it relates to you, everyone’s a journalist. Everyone can do a podcast. Everyone can have a Twitter feed an x feed with multiple followers. And it’s I’ve seen it kill industries, or technology. I have a buddy who’s a photographer, who now has to deal with people saying, I need a photographer anymore for my wedding. They’re going to take out their phones and they’re going to do it themselves. So I do find a curious while we’ve been talking about sports this whole time, just the business challenge of launching what you’ve launched where you solved one of them, which is you have funding. But as you know that it’s only gonna last forever, I

Nestor J. Aparicio  45:07

need you to survive too big time. Especially now if the sun’s falling, you know, Putin sands like I need you to survive, I just don’t know what to do about it. You know, I love what you do. I don’t love the model. I’d say that to anybody. I mean, I would have said that the TED so

Mike Rosenfeld  45:21

once you know, what’s the pitch? What’s the pitch to a local person? Who, who is who’s can get what they think is true. For free from you, how do you get over that hurdle? Yeah,

Chris Korman  45:36

I mean, I think it involves a lot of different our business growing right, and having different price points, I think there’s got to be a way for somebody in San Francisco who just wants to read one banner story to say, I’ll give you $2 for that story, or whatever, and not have to subscribe, you know, we need we need to differentiate our business model. But ultimately, I think for local people, it’s that we’re going to tell you what’s going on in your community that we’re going to be trustworthy about it. You know, we have incredible and and look, journalism very rarely pays for journalism, right? The New Yorker does the best journalism in the world, but it’s still got poems and crosswords, and here’s what show to go see off Broadway and funny stuff and review and TV reviews. Like, I buy it for the comics, right? You know, journalism doesn’t generally pay for journalism, right? So we need to offer other things. And we have, you know, our most read stuff, quite frankly, is restaurant stuff. I mean, that’s what you’re doing these surprise dinners and right and we’re doing we’re doing, you know, so we need to create a business that can can attract people and give them what they want. But also have journalism be part of that? And we also, I mean, to your point, we are finding ways so you know, in libraries, the banners free to certain low income areas, the banner is free. Baltimore City Schools, we have a deal with them. The banner is free to lower income.

Mike Rosenfeld  46:59

Is it all? I don’t know the answer to it is all digital. Okay. So when you say it’s free to library, it’s a digital everything’s Yeah,

Chris Korman  47:05

you can just get online and you’ll you’ll have access.

Nestor J. Aparicio  47:08

I got Sherry here and she’s gonna be fun from laylaz gift. I got Robbie. I do we can do this anytime. Yeah,

Chris Korman  47:13

anytime I’m gonna crabcake All right. All right, we’ll do I always

Nestor J. Aparicio  47:17

say well, we’ll get together next time. Peter Angelos is still on the team for 30 years, I hope. I hope when we get together then I am very drunk with that prisoner bottle of wine to unleash the prisoner. Thanks for coming by me.

Chris Korman  47:30

Thanks for having me. Two years. I’m

Nestor J. Aparicio  47:32

trying to get this guy on the air and he shows up when I got a line out the door. Yeah, charity people here and and thanks. Mike Roosevelt’s gonna stick around Robbie Jr’s here. We’re gonna get Sherry’s up from laylaz gift. At some point, four o’clock hour you’re gonna want to stick around I’m gonna cry. Andrews laughing gas is going to be here. They’re definitely gonna make you’re gonna make you’re gonna cry like a baby in the four o’clock hour. Mike Rosenfeld is our Chief Digital Officer. He’s here we’re here on behalf of the Maryland lottery. You already got one your friends get tickets. Oh, man, you got buddies. I mean, you got one of these guys gonna win win 10 grand and fixed fixed a little league over caucus right you guys are friends of window nations Well, ASICs 690 nation entry fee lewd multi care where Pappus a couple of Super Bowl crabcake row I got. I got so into sports. It’s

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