What kind of a civic cash grab is John Angelos trying to get away with in darkness?

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Nestor Aparicio tells Dennis Koulatsos what he’s learned about the Orioles intentions for Camden Yards and the downtown area. And he doesn’t like anything about the facts he’s uncovered and the legitimate people with knowledge who are speaking out about the future of our city and who will control the future of the complex and the Maryland Stadium Authority.


ravens, years, stadium, lease, people, kelso, talking, john, win, thought, team, maryland, nestor, tom, orioles, game, governor, bruce bochy, good, larry hogan


Dennis Koulatsos, Nestor Aparicio

Dennis Koulatsos  00:02

Welcome back. My next guest is Nestor Aparicio. Oblates and formatting, always engaging with all the latest and greatest news in a sports world and beyond Nestor, welcome in.

Nestor Aparicio  00:12

I’m feeling myself Dennis, how are you? Man? It’s a mid season it’s go time here. It’s time to put the offense together. Right?

Dennis Koulatsos  00:18

I’m trying to put the offense together you know got a you world series champ, right first time with over 60 years and a team that the bloods right through a Baltimore Orioles. Yeah, I don’t know

Nestor Aparicio  00:29

that that makes you feel better. I saw some loyal fans taking some solace that you know, you lose to the Champs or whatever, but

Dennis Koulatsos  00:35

not a good feeling. Yeah,

Nestor Aparicio  00:37

I don’t know what it’s going to be like for if they don’t win, right. You know, if this is I don’t say as good as it gets. Because I, it should get better, right? Like I in my mind, I’m very hopeful. I’m thinking like, they’ll make the playoffs again. Next year, or the year after that. I think around here when you win 101 It’s really never been done in this era. Everybody just thinks well, they’re making the playoffs next year. Not that easy. Not especially not that easy in baseball. I mean, the Yankees make it look easy. The Red Sox when they were really good when the Braves were loaded. They were loaded loaded like Hall of Famers, loaded, pitching loaded. They spent $200 million on their payroll more than anybody else. I don’t know. I mean, they have a lot of young players. They have a nice pipeline. They have a lot of work to do. And winning the tournament is different than winning 100 games and getting to the tournament. I think we talked about that all summer. And I said to Luke, he and I got a little testy or a little weak. I’m like I told you for three months. Game one, you have to win game one. And that’s when series is set up. So you can start you know, you’re making the playoffs in July, we saw that. And then in August, it picks up in September, you start to count down and there’s magic numbers and there’s tickets and you’re like how much and then then the game start you have to win and the Rangers did that and the Phillies didn’t and the Dodgers didn’t and the Braves did. And then the Orioles did and then all these teams, the Astros all had great seasons, but the Rangers will be the champion. So hey, one of the best sports books I ever read. And I recommended this when I landed in. In Texas we looked at I landed in Dallas at Love Field late at night, the night before we went to the game, and the woman that I rented the car and I’m going out of rental car and she’s a big Rangers fan. She had all Ranger stuff on and we’re like, hey, look, there’s Rangers fans. And she’s like, Oh, I’ve been a season ticket holder since the old stadium and since Nolan Ryan and like and I said, Hey, there’s a great Rangers book. She’s like I she was getting a pension. I tell me, it’s called seasons in hell. It’s about their move to Texas from Washington in 1972 7374. guy named Mike Shropshire wrote it. So if you’re looking for a book if you love baseball enough to know who the Rangers are, and the book is called seasons in hell by Mike Shropshire. It was written in the 90s it’s the funniest it was just such a great great book Billy Martin Whitey Herzog Rico, cardi Jeff Burroughs, all of that early 70s Texas Rangers so have at it.

Dennis Koulatsos  03:11

As far as the Orioles losing to the eventual champs I go back to oh six when to segue into football. When we lost the to the other Colts. I didn’t want to see the Colts win the Superbowl and of course they beat the Chicago Bears that year. That was have we gotten by them with Steve McNair we would have won the Superbowl I’m confident in it. But I sure a sudden want to see Peyton Manning when when his first Superbowl, which is exactly what he did.

Nestor Aparicio  03:37

You know, I grew up old school. You know, my dad was, you know, very square and straight. My dad always rooted for the American League team, because that was like, the auras were in the American League. So, you know, when I went on the radio in the early 90s, and took phone calls, you know, it’s 32 years of doing this now, people in the 90s that was a very common mindset that, you know, you don’t like the Yankees if they win. They’re the American League team. I think 30 years later, it’s, you know, sports is way different than that Pollyanna standpoint. And you refer you’re, you know, I just I hate everything about Dallas, Texas. So, then winning is, you know, I mean, I’d rather have them that when that being said, I love Bruce Bochy, Bruce Bochy, from the minute I met him I met Bruce Bochy. 30 years ago when I used to go out to San Diego and visit with my aunt, I would spend time out there and I loved the Padres and nobody went to the games and the PR director, everybody that ran the Padres were Larry Latinos, people. So they were all Baltimore people Eddie Epstein. Baker. Koppelman was there Roy summer off was there were a lot of people that were out in San Diego at that time, and I got treated well, Mel proctor was their announcer at the time. So whenever I went out there, I’ve always liked Bruce Bochy, he’s just a great, great guy. And so, and he’s going to the Hall of Fame for real, so good for For him, so I’m happy. I will stand happy for him.

Dennis Koulatsos  05:03

Good stuff. Ravens there secto To execute here three game homestand. Right Seahawks browns. And then the third night matchup against the Bengals. Right. They’ve got a shot to to increase their lead under division, if for sure.

Nestor Aparicio  05:20

Yeah, I don’t know that I’m cocky enough to think they’re gonna go through, you know, but I, I know they could they should I mean, we talked about Pittsburgh in Indianapolis. You know, they could be undefeated right now, right? Like they, they played well enough every week, at various points to win a game. They haven’t played so poorly, that they’ve given a game away. They’ve just shown up in, you know, the way the lions did here. You know, I don’t know that that ever happens to them at home, where they find themselves out of a game at home. I think they’re gonna have to go on the road. And, you know, the hardball teams don’t get beaten like this. They have so much talent, and they’re also healthy. And I just saw Marcus Williams is going to be coming back, right? I mean, they may if they survive Sunday’s game have like a full team next week against Cleveland and in Cincinnati and, and for that, for all of the years of you talking about and me talking about their goofy trainer, taking COVID into the locker room, guys getting hurt the practice fields get noncontact injuries out knowings mills. You know, Brendham I took a picture of Marty Cordova in Vegas to Dan thinking about the tanning booth that he got, he got injured and but I just think injuries are something that’s completely unpredictable. And when we talk about the Ravens as a Super Bowl contender, and he asked me about my show this week I had I had the the Devo TEI of all things DVOA he invented it. Aaron Schatz from pro football focus has really affected the game in a massive way. As Luke and I say our favorite nerd. He came on for half an hour this week. And we talked about the Ravens. And he said to him for their measurements, the ravens are the Super Bowl favorite. So his whole thing was get your value on the Ravens now because there’s value on the Ravens right now in Las Vegas, other people like Philadelphia, other people like this or that we like the ravens, and I thought, Okay, well, you liked the ravens, because Lamar is upright, and I think about where we were two years ago, and where we were a year ago, and five and three, six and two, whatever they were seven and two, they were good the last two years, and then everything stops when your quarterback gets injured. You have to think that that good fortune would take over, you know, at some point, and that they would stay healthier and right now, knock on wood. They’re healthy. And when they’re healthy. They should be at the Seattle Seahawks rolling out of bed at 10 o’clock in the morning down at the ballpark on Sunday. Right?

Dennis Koulatsos  07:53

Yeah, as long as you hit the nail on the head, as long as Lamar is up, right? The team, it’s two and seven. And the nine games that Lamar has missed the last two seasons and latencies. And as long as he’s off, right, he’s having an MVP type of a year. As you mentioned, they have health and as long as that keeps going. And I’m glad he looks like he’s trying to pass more and run less looks like he’s trying to run only when he has to when he bails out. Like to see more that I really don’t want to see design one place where I’m more exacting, particularly with four minutes left in the game,

Nestor Aparicio  08:22

and a nine minute lead. And I’m in a nine point lead.

Dennis Koulatsos  08:26

You don’t want to see that you’d like you. You’ve always mentioned you don’t like him running at the linebackers. And I couldn’t agree with you more there. I’d be remiss if I didn’t speak to the piece you did with the Tom Cal show and I encourage all my listeners to listen to that piece that you did.

Nestor Aparicio  08:42

Well, listen, Tom counselors a person I don’t know. And I want to set this up. Because if anybody does, listen, it’s the most listened to piece in the first 24 hours. I’ve had it a long time. I mean, my writing sometimes I’ll get 10s of 1000s of people read my work. But in the first day a lot of it’s been shared. It’s been seen. And it’s because it’s credible. And I Nancy Grasmick came up to me I was over Towson University they just made Dr. Ginsburg their new president at Towson University. And I went over to the to that welcoming event on Wednesday. So I was there. First cocktail party I’ve been to without cocktails. It’s at a university. I’m there. I’m like, where’s the? Oh, it’s apple cider. Yes. Okay. So I had some apple cider. I had a cinnamon stick, it was delicious. You know, they had some fruits and they had some pursuit. gabagool. So, you know, I’m over there. And Nancy Grasmick said to me, she always made me cry. She came up to me, she said, What am I coming back on your show? We talk about education. And but she said to me, she said, You bring credibility to the community. And I’m like, Wow, I’m like, she said, You don’t lie to people. Everybody knows where they stand. You’re like me, you Gotta tell him the truth. And I’m like, okay, so this Tom Kelso guy is it turns out he’s an Aberdeen native, he lives in Jacksonville. He’s a Baltimore human. He is associated with Larry Hogan, which always stirs me up. If you’re too associated with LeWitt Westmore, to associate with Larry Hogan or to associated with Fox News or to associated with, like, then I start to think like, I don’t need you to be a political, we’re all political. You know, we can all figure that out on what’s going over on in the Middle East right now, as far as what side you’re on, or if you have to pick a side or any of that I might, I’m on Baltimore side. And it’s, I’ve been an Oracle fan and a raving fan. And they hate me. They hate me because I’ve asked real questions. So this lease thing I have said so many things on the air that have just gone over people’s heads, you and I’ve had long conversations about it, and I know you understand it, but I think you’re often wondering like, Mr. Fuller, is he normally only following him around? And just, this is what I do for a living. It’s like what Dan Connolly said that to John Angeles, like, don’t talk to me that way. I know everything about this because I if you like me talking to you about tonight, Ford Motor Cars, it’s what you do. You me telling you how to run a dealership, like if you don’t know how to run a dealership if I can’t trust your information and running a dealership. So people listen to me. And they think that I’m like at 1057 or, um, some old bartender that I hired, or, um, some guy that said, I don’t care about business, just I only know the games, or I only gamble on the games, guys, right? None of those people ever cared about any of this, learn any of it or understand any of it. And when I would sit with Dick casts in his office in 2010 1214, he would always say, Well, you know, we have a lease coming up. And you know, the Orioles are a part of that. And, and Deke, which was a parody clause, Nestor, and you know, whatever. So I learned, I hear this from these people, right. And I’ve known John Moke, since he stole the team. And I knew John Brown, and I knew her Belgrade. And I care about these things. And I’ve known for governors in a row now, to care about these things. And knowing when the rubber meets the road. I had no idea how this was gonna happen a couple of years ago, like I knew there was going to be a lease, I knew there was going to have to be money. And I knew we would have to get it from Annapolis. And I knew they weren’t gonna rebuild the stadiums. But I thought, well, the one Stadium was 300 million. The other Stadium was 200 million. We built them 30 years ago, 25 years ago, in the case of the baseball stadium, how much money will we need to give them to keep the teams here? And what would the state’s investment be in that? So Tom Kelso is the man who was appointed by Larry Hogan. In 2014 15, when he became the governor of state of Maryland, to run the Maryland State with our St. John’s John milk, same job as John Brown or a bell grad. All those there have been seven, chairman of the Maryland stadium authority since the mid 80s. When it was commissioned, because we lost the Colts, right? We needed a stadium authority, because Memorial Stadium wasn’t going to be suitable anymore. And we realize that in 1984, we lost our football team. So Tom Kelso gets appointed, he ran John Carroll School. He was in private business in the petroleum industry. He was a political appointee. Now, finally, a political appointee to you what do you do? You gotta like this, right? You’re like wildfire. What does he know? I’m wondering that about Craig Thompson, who is the Maryland stadium authority Chairman under West Moore who has refused to speak to me he didn’t email me back. He said, I’m not talking to we got to lease. I’m okay with that. I’m good with that. But he got right back to me the other day. Tom Kelso, meanwhile is a person I don’t know. He’s run stadium authority for years. He admitted to me after he did an hour and 15 minutes of truth telling with me that he never would have come on with me when he was a Maryland stadium authority chairman, he’s like I just wouldn’t have come on with you and done it. In the done it. He said I couldn’t have done it. So Tom Kelso starts speaking out in the Baltimore Sun and in the Business Journal three weeks ago, during the playoffs and saying this, this isn’t this memory Memorandum of Agreement MOA a. We’re West Wes stood up with John Angelos pretended there’s a lease when there’s not. And the governor is going to have to answer to me for that because he he doesn’t need to get pushed around by John Angela. He didn’t need to be afraid of John Angeles. Why he is I have no idea but he is. And I’ve learned that through this. And I’ve learned that in talking to Wes Moore myself that he’s afraid to John Angelo’s. This is the problem with all of this Dennis is that everybody was afraid of Peter accent Me, except me. Everybody was afraid of obvious truths of losing games of mistreatment of human beings of all the things that we read about with the Arizona Cardinals yesterday who denied me a credential three days ago. And now I feel a little more emboldened that these pricks denied me a press credential, you know, like these people that treat each other like garbage, that they’re not going to let a guy from Baltimore and right. So, Kelso. I emailed him and he we are linked on LinkedIn, which I did not realize. I think I’ve shaken his hand. Once when he came on the screen. I looked at him, I’m like, Hey, I think I’ve met you. I think I shook your hand at Mako. He’s like, Yeah, I think I met your maker two years ago. I’m like, Yeah, but I’ve never spoken to Tom Kelso. So I emailed him. He agreed to come on. He was like, I want to come on. I’m like, while I’m away. Let’s do this on Halloween. And I’d never met him. And he came on the screen with me on Zoom. And I said to him, you know who I am and what I do, I’m just, I just want truth. And I still have never met him other than being on zoom with him. And from soup to nuts within the first five minutes. He’s one of the most credible, intelligent, well read, honest. The honesty trips off the piece. He sat in that seat for eight years, and is he would say the Maryland stadium authority does all sorts of stuff that I didn’t know they did. They build stadia, they build schools, they work in every county in the state. It’s not just about these two stadiums, like which I thought I didn’t No, no. Again, I’ve never spoken to a Maryland stadium authority, chairman in a sitting capacity. And I have others that I’m social friends with, and I just did never said what does the stadium authority really do? And 2023 And how, because because the ceilings are built, right? The question, it makes the toilet paper Good. Keep the paint on the walls, right? So it

Dennis Koulatsos  16:57

was 2022. His last year as the the chairman there or he

Nestor Aparicio  17:01

goes out when when the governor goes out about it. So he went out January layers when

Dennis Koulatsos  17:06

when hugger went out and Westmore came in he went out with Hogan,

Nestor Aparicio  17:09

right? So he said in 15 He wasn’t sure to heat me negotiating the lease because Larry had to win again. Right? Otherwise he wouldn’t have been there in 1920. He said when Governor Hogan won and you can hear all of this in the piece and I really do owe people go listen to it. Because it’s not really nerdy. It’s not. It’s not science. And you know, it really is history and rights, and money and rent and stewardship for the community. This really isn’t about Peter Angelos. John angelos, Steve Ashanti, Rene Bushati. This is about the next owners of those teams, and what do they get on behalf of all of us still paying taxes on this in 2030 2035 2037, which is what the lease is through right now. I’m not going to spoil Mr. Kelso is all that he information he gave me. But he gave me the basis of the Ravens lease which is a lease which he wrote, which would be the least of the ravens, right. So are the Orioles I should say if they if they signed it. And he said the way they set it up was to fund the stadia so that they don’t fall apart. And he you know, he used Dallas as an example Arlington. They have a new baseball stadium next to an old baseball stadium that they didn’t keep up as well as maybe they could have did different things. And instead, they were like, well, let’s just spend 2 billion more and build a new one. Instead of saying, well, here’s 600 million over the next 30 years. 20 years to make sure need a scoreboard you get a scoreboard need Wi Fi you get one thanks. We never got a photo in 1998. Nobody was thinking about Wi Fi in the stadium. Nobody was thinking about none, cable, anything. When I’m talking about how the television worked, how the cable television worked, how the point of sale worked, how the satellite dishes worked, all of that stuff that was built in 1992 for Camden Yards and 98 for the Ravens stadium. It’s all changed and the wants and needs of party decks and all the things that were not a part of stadia and the 90. So he gets the Ravens deal in 18. He gets Larry gets reelected. He gets reappointed. And then he knows the least is going to be his. He told me in this conversation that he began conversations with Peter Angelus when Peters head was still he thought, okay, and Peter would always say to him, why would I want to do that? Why would I want to sign a lease? Peter’s never signed a lease in his life for any of this stuff. He’d never had any intention to ever sign the lease and I’m not sure John has any intention of Really signing a lease. I just think it’s play the game, play the game get more get more. But John is tied to Steve Wright. So anything that John gets Steve is entitled to, or the Ravens owner is I should even say, Steve, because Tom always corrected me on that. He’s like, no, no, the Ravens owners entitled to that. So Steve may say, I’m too embarrassed to come and do the same stuff that this clown did. I’m a billionaire, I’m on a boat. I just liked my football team, because that’s who Steve is, you know. And I don’t want it. But the next owner will, and the next owner can demand it legally. Because John got it. And Mr. Kelso is very, very concerned that everything in the MO a, as he said, That’s none of that’s new to me. It’s everything John wanted that I wouldn’t give him. The West is now going to give him or as agreed to give him and it’s kind of frightening. Because here’s what it does, then it’s and this is the punch line. This is something everybody needs to know. It This spans the Maryland stadium authority. So Wes Moore is on the plate now to potentially and I’ll be talking to him about this. And I hope he’s honest with me. He hasn’t not been yet but I’m always looking that it dispense the Maryland Merrill stadium authority. And this is a man who ran the stadium authority for eight years at 250 employees and governmental oversight. If anyone thinks the Angelos is shouldn’t have oversight, you haven’t had your eyes open. And I’ll be happy to tell the governor that that he’s petting a snake. And we should be concerned about this because there is no lease. We should be concerned not that we gotta get a lease, we got to get a lease. And and when I spoke to the governor, he was concerned that he had to get a lease and I’m thinking to myself, he’s not moving the team. The commissioner is not gonna let the team of the commissioners on pretty on the record about that, like they’re not moving the Baltimore they’re not letting John Angeles go playing a minor league Stadium in Nashville. While he tries to hoodwink the Tennessee government, and there’s no money in Tennessee, by the way, there’s no money. I’ve been told that by everybody. They are tapped out they spent $2 billion. They bonded the city for $800 million. The city of Nashville took an $800 million bond to the stadium in Nashville is the greatest example because that stadium was built after our stadium. But we like that IKEA sat down and Raul John Reese felt the same time 99 2000 It came online. It was after our stadium and it’s obsolete. It’s an obsolete stadium. So instead of 600 million to fix it, it’s 2 billion to redirect it. And that’s what Maryland has been trying to avoid when Mr. Kelso and his predecessors have been trying to to avoid and he is whistleblowing. As an eight year public servant on trying to get the attention of sports fans here to say I don’t hate the Orioles. I don’t hate the Angelo’s family, I don’t have a bone to pick which the bush I like I just want a good deal for our citizens. And I want the teams to be safe. And I want them to be an economic starter engine and and a glowing light for people to utilize downtown to maximize downtown from hotels, restaurants, living space, whatever harbor place is going to be and I’ve reached the David Bramble and he wrote me back it’s gonna be a wild couple months here, Dennis and me talking civics with people now that the baseball games are over because Tom Kelso was as credible, as informative and as sharp as any person I’ve ever talked to about any of this. And everything I thought I knew was true. But there was a lot I didn’t know that has been unearthed in this conversation. And a lot of people who thought they knew a lot called me and said, Wow, there’s a lot going on here with this lease situation with this crazy ownership group. And what what they’re trying to do, which is it’s always this tennis, you know this, they’re trying to get the power, they’re trying to get the money from us, and then make the power there’s to do whatever they want with it. And that should be unacceptable to the citizenry here and it should really be unacceptable. Given the Angelo’s his family tawdry history with how they treated humans here, and and how this franchise has behaved, not just with Nestor Aparicio, or the media, how it’s behaved with everyone how it’s behaved with the community, how it’s interacted with the community. And I’ll keep going back to this. What value does it have? What value does it have to our community? That $600 million isn’t enough?

Dennis Koulatsos  24:45

Yeah, not thank you make excellent points. And again, I encourage everyone to out to listen to the piece for sure.

Nestor Aparicio  24:51

Well, yeah, and I hope we enjoy the game this weekend too. And I’m kind of bummed baseball’s over I’ll be honest, my wife and I were we were in the groove you know, starting in June, sitting Every night you know what time they play. What are we going to eat tonight? Watching the game in the den instead of you know, like, it’s eating dinner in the kitchen we have a day. I said to my wife, we don’t eat dinner in the kitchen since like July. Like we just don’t eat dinner in the kitchen. We dinner when we watch television, you know? So that’s gonna change. We’re starting to have a dinner in the kitchen all of a sudden. Oh,

Dennis Koulatsos  25:19

good. Well enjoy. Yeah, enjoy the Ravens this weekend for sure. I played Wordle last

Nestor Aparicio  25:23

night for the first time since like, we had a magic number. Like it played Wordle for the first time since August. So

Dennis Koulatsos  25:30

all right, well, listen, you keep doing great things again, Tom caster article interview with Nestor here on 1570 Am wn st to LinkedIn. Make sure you spread the word well that will take the next break here at 1570 AM. wn st we’ll be back right after this.

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